If most non-Americans want America to stop meddling with world affairs ...

[Espe]

The US federal budget is $3.5 trillion a year. Including state and local spending, US government at all levels accounts for about $6.7 trillion.

US Foreign Aid to Africa totals about $20 of the $35 billion we spend in aid every year, or about $7 billion. Of that $35 billion, $8.4 billion (24%) is Global Health programs.

SO not only is foreign aid essentially a rounding error of wider US spending, but it also goes to tremendously useful things, like a quarter of it going to treating illness and infectious disease.

Source: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/spends-billion-foreign/


I think a quick way to winning hearts and minds is curing the sick and alleviating suffering. There is also the whole moral responsibility to do so thing.

Well said as usual Skroe. Thanks for the link!

[Deleted]

Two times last century we tried to stay out of world affair and we ended up with WW1 and WW2 that we was dragged into them anyways and lost hundred of thousands of American lives. never again
would lives been saved if we got involved from the start dam right there would have
Hitler started WW2 because we allowed him to. he was constantly breaking the treaty of Versailles and we turned a blind eye to it
we could have stopped WW2 before it even began if we would have gotten involved and enforced the treaty

hahaha, you are funny.

"We lost hundreds of thousands of American lives, so to prevent this, we will pretend to be a Good Guy World Police and take other peoples lives. cause, American lives, yo"

[Pangean]

Two times last century we tried to stay out of world affair and we ended up with WW1 and WW2 that we was dragged into them anyways and lost hundred of thousands of American lives. never again
would lives been saved if we got involved from the start dam right there would have
Hitler started WW2 because we allowed him to. he was constantly breaking the treaty of Versailles and we turned a blind eye to it
we could have stopped WW2 before it even began if we would have gotten involved and enforced the treaty

Wow.

/10char

[breadisfunny]

Two times last century we tried to stay out of world affair and we ended up with WW1 and WW2 that we was dragged into them anyways and lost hundred of thousands of American lives. never again
would lives been saved if we got involved from the start dam right there would have
Hitler started WW2 because we allowed him to. he was constantly breaking the treaty of Versailles and we turned a blind eye to it
we could have stopped WW2 before it even began if we would have gotten involved and enforced the treaty

what about the vietnam war? OOPS.

[Deleted]

Two times last century we tried to stay out of world affair and we ended up with WW1 and WW2 that we was dragged into them anyways and lost hundred of thousands of American lives. never again
would lives been saved if we got involved from the start dam right there would have
Hitler started WW2 because we allowed him to. he was constantly breaking the treaty of Versailles and we turned a blind eye to it
we could have stopped WW2 before it even began if we would have gotten involved and enforced the treaty

And which World War would that be that you were dragged into?

WW1 were you were using Civilians as Shields to ship munitions to Great Britain and then whined when the German Embassy started handing out leaflets at the Docks, Ports warning about what you were doing and how those ships would be targeted?

Or WW2. Were you were attacking German, Japanese Merchant shipping while you were neutral? The war were the American version of "Russian Soldiers on Holiday" (aka Green Men) were fighting even while the US was "Neutral"

Please tell me about the World War were you were dragged into fighting by something else then your own actions.

[Marcellus1986]

And which World War would that be that you were dragged into?

WW1 were you were using Civilians as Shields to ship munitions to Great Britain and then whined when the German Embassy started handing out leaflets at the Docks, Ports warning about what you were doing and how those ships would be targeted?

Or WW2. Were you were attacking German, Japanese Merchant shipping while you were neutral? The war were the American version of "Russian Soldiers on Holiday" (aka Green Men) were fighting even while the US was "Neutral"

Please tell me about the World War were you were dragged into fighting by something else then your own actions.

Not even remotely similar. America was drawn into the war by Pearl Harbor.

[Deleted]

I think many of the non-Americans who dislike America meddling in world affairs are a little naive to the outcome of that. Libya, Syria, the growth of ISIS, recent ISIS attacks in the EU

All those problems occurred primarily because of US intervention. Gaddhafi would still be in power in Libya. Saddam never would have let ISIS arise. But for the destabliziation the Syrian civil war never would have happened.

I doubt there is any one but crazy tub-thumping us nationalists, whether ally or enemy, who thinks otherwise. You people are incredibly insular and out of touch with the actuality of things.

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Millions of people are alive, and millions more will live, because of this.

Millions of dollars will line the pockets of pharmaceutical company shareholders, because of this (mists up).

Millions of dollars will also be wasted on abstinence programs and other bullshit measures designed to pander to evangelicals.

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Today it's foreign aid. Tomorrow it's foreign military bases and strategic partnerships.

Exactly. '

[Independent voter]

All those problems occurred primarily because of US intervention. Gaddhafi would still be in power in Libya. Saddam never would have let ISIS arise. But for the destabliziation the Syrian civil war never would have happened.

I doubt there is any one but crazy tub-thumping us nationalists, whether ally or enemy, who thinks otherwise. You people are incredibly insular and out of touch with the actuality of things.

No, European inaction caused those problems.

[Deleted]

No, European inaction caused those problems.

I mean what can you even reply to that?

[Skroe]

I mean what can you even reply to that?

Europe under-spending on defense is a matter of fact.

The problem isn't entire about willingness to underspend. That's like one quarter the problem. Another quarter is a the fact that, as discussed at length elsewhere, European defense procurement is grossly inefficient.

[Deleted]

No, European inaction caused those problems.

That doesn't make any sense.

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Europe under-spending on defense is a matter of fact.

Yeah we should so what you guys do, spend ten times as much on the miltary as the rest of the world together, then go and invade some oil-rich country and get our arses kicked by a vastly outnumbered, underequipped group of primtive savages. Drop lots of bombs on impoverished civillians, turn the whole world against us, declare victory and then run away.

Do fuck off.

[Skroe]

Yeah we should so what you guys do, spend ten times as much on the miltary as the rest of the world together, then go and invade some oil-rich country and get our arses kicked by a vastly outnumbered, underequipped group of primtive savages. Drop lots of bombs on impoverished civillians, turn the whole world against us, declare victory and then run away.

Do fuck off.

No. You should spend the net total of $300 billion you spend per year all buying one tank model, one fighter aircraft model, one tanker model, one combat rifle, one diesel-electric sub model, one destroyer/frigate and so forth.

The core problem of European defense spending is Germany has it's tanks, France has its tanks, Britain has its tanks and so forth. Of course you folks can't buy in any quantity - you're spending half your budgets largely duplicating your neighbors (with some notable exceptions of course).

[Deleted]

Europe under-spending on defense is a matter of fact.

The problem isn't entire about willingness to underspend. That's like one quarter the problem. Another quarter is a the fact that, as discussed at length elsewhere, European defense procurement is grossly inefficient.

How do you relate your post to "european inaction" and how do you relate "European inaction" to "destabilisation of middle east"?

I mean... Its just factually and historically incorrect as a statement.

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No. You should spend the net total of $300 billion you spend per year all buying one tank model, one fighter aircraft model, one tanker model, one combat rifle, one diesel-electric sub model, one destroyer/frigate and so forth.

The core problem of European defense spending is Germany has it's tanks, France has its tanks, Britain has its tanks and so forth. Of course you folks can't buy in any quantity - you're spending half your budgets largely duplicating your neighbors (with some notable exceptions of course).

There is no problem with European defense spending.

[Skroe]

How do you relate your post to "european inaction" and how do you relate "European inaction" to "destabilisation of middle east"?

I mean... Its just factually and historically incorrect as a statement.

I'm not claiming that at all. In terms of European continental security, Europe has atrophied. It's finally taking big steps to correct this though.

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There is no problem with European defense spending.

You're dead wrong on this, but your opinion on the issue is irrelevant. European defense consolidation has been a rolling occurrence that's gone on over the last 15 years. It will continue. Italy and France for example, are engaging in joint progress. Germany and the UK are laying the groundwork for the Panavia Tornado Replacement.

Europe doesn't really need to spend more. It needs to spend smarter.

[Deleted]

I'm not claiming that at all. In terms of European continental security, Europe has atrophied. It's finally taking big steps to correct this though.

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You're dead wrong on this, but your opinion on the issue is irrelevant. European defense consolidation has been a rolling occurrence that's gone on over the last 15 years. It will continue. Italy and France for example, are engaging in joint progress. Germany and the UK are laying the groundwork for the Panavia Tornado Replacement.

Europe doesn't really need to spend more. It needs to spend smarter.

There is no issue of continental security that defense spending would address. Whats threatening our security is international terrorism, a consequence of your foreign policies (thank you). Increased defense spending has nothing to do with it.
I agree with you. We don't need to spend more. We need to spend better.

[Skroe]

There is no issue of continental security that defense spending would address. Whats threatening our security is international terrorism, a consequence of your foreign policies (thank you). Increased defense spending has nothing to do with it.
I agree with you. We don't need to spend more. We need to spend better.

I mean, Russia is the greatest threat to European security, but Vladmir Putin made you, personally, his bitch so long ago, I'm well past the point of expecting you to come around to recognize that fact.

It's fine. Europeans stepping up to defend Europe from Russia is happening, whether one miserable Italian likes it or not.

[Deleted]

I mean, Russia is the greatest threat to European security, but Vladmir Putin made you, personally, his bitch so long ago, I'm well past the point of expecting you to come around to recognize that fact.

It's fine. Europeans stepping up to defend Europe from Russia is happening, whether one miserable Italian likes it or not.

Skroe. The fact that you to resort to this shit makes me cringe. Once again. 250k to shittalk on the internet.

Russia is no security threat to a united europe now. This is reality. You are living in a distorted twisted reality made of war and propaganda. And the funny thing is... You paid for it. Genius

[Low Hanging Fruit]

History shows us that people that say things like "America first" and "we plan to focus only on us" rarely means that the rest of the world goes unnoticed or unbothered. If anything it will be a snake coiling in the corner before it strikes. Because you can pin those to anything. "Why did bomb us America?" some nation might ask and America only has to reply at that point with "you had what we wanted, America first".

[Deleted]

Not even remotely similar. America was drawn into the war by Pearl Harbor.

And Pearl Harbour was the Japanese response to American harassment of its Merchant Fleet and the American Airmen in China, who were on "vacation" (just like Russian Troops Ukraine).

[timberx]

MAN. SERIOUSLY?

You can't even get this right.



Seriously, fuck off with that debt garbage. It's not right. It's never been right. It will never be right.

See China there? 8.2%. Belgium owns more of our debt.

Hey Skroe, where did you get that chart from? Every source i get through google says China holds the largest portion of our foreign debt with Japan not far behind.