Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Imnick]

Except the terrible class changes. RIP BoS gameplay for blood and unholy.

All three specs talenting into the same gameplay loop is a pretty clear violation of what Blizzard want out of this expansion.

[Drekmar]

All three specs talenting into the same gameplay loop is a pretty clear violation of what Blizzard want out of this expansion.

Frost doesnt use BoS.

[Imnick]

Frost doesnt use BoS.

The point is that it is clearly a Frost spell, and a rotation-defining ability.
Having any spec other than Frost using it violates their new principle of separating spec identities.

[Rhlor]

shaldorei

[Aeluron Lightsong]

All three specs talenting into the same gameplay loop is a pretty clear violation of what Blizzard want out of this expansion.

Arms Warriors and Ret Paladins say hello. (On Alpha anyways)

[Imnick]

Arms Warriors and Ret Paladins say hello. (On Alpha anyways)

Those... aren't three specs of the same class. Those are two specs of different classes >_>
The issue is all three specs being able to have the exact same gameplay goal, two disparate classes being able to opt in to vaguely similar mechanics isn't the same.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Those... aren't three specs of the same class. Those are two specs of different classes >_>
The issue is all three specs being able to have the exact same gameplay goal, two disparate classes being able to opt in to vaguely similar mechanics isn't the same.

I was mostly referring to how the gameplay mechanics are going to be similar to one another, that's all. I don't really see Death Knights having same gameplay, from what I hear Unholy is looking pretty interesting right now.

[Imnick]

I was mostly referring to how the gameplay mechanics are going to be similar to one another, that's all. I don't really see Death Knights having same gameplay, from what I hear Unholy is looking pretty interesting right now.

Death Knights won't have the same gameplay... because they removed the talent that gave all three specs the same gameplay.
I don't want to be rude, but have you been following this conversation? :P

The issue was that a poster was upset that Breath of Sindragosa is now only available to one spec instead of all three.
Breath of Sindragosa is a rotation-changing ability, which causes a cone of frost damage to emit from you and drain runic power every second, changing your rotation to one of constantly trying to most efficiently generate runic power to power the upkeep of Breath of Sindragosa for as long as possible.
Having it available to all three specs drove towards a homogeneity of gameplay, but now it is only available to one spec so that risk is neutered.

[Drekmar]

Death Knights won't have the same gameplay... because they removed the talent that gave all three specs the same gameplay.
I don't want to be rude, but have you been following this conversation? :P

The issue was that a poster was upset that Breath of Sindragosa is now only available to one spec instead of all three.
Breath of Sindragosa is a rotation-changing ability, which causes a cone of frost damage to emit from you and drain runic power every second, changing your rotation to one of constantly trying to most efficiently generate runic power to power the upkeep of Breath of Sindragosa for as long as possible.
Having it available to all three specs drove towards a homogeneity of gameplay, but now it is only available to one spec so that risk is neutered.

Yeah sure, blood and unholy have the same gameplay. Idk what drug you are on, but thats some good stuff. Im not that much upset BoS going away, but about them saying they want complexity, and then killing it.

[Imnick]

Yeah sure, blood and unholy have the same gameplay. Idk what drug you are on, but thats some good stuff.

Breath of Sindragosa being available to all means that all three specs could then have the same gameplay aim of "generate RP as fast as possible to keep BoS up as long as possible", which is clearly against Blizzard's design goals of all three specs being distinct.
Sure, they generate RP in different ways, but it's a degeneration towards too much similarity. Especially as it is so clearly a Frost-themed ability.

This is pretty simple stuff.

[Drekmar]

This is pretty simple stuff.

Not that simple when majority of DKs cant play it correctly.

[Imnick]

Not that simple when majority of DKs cant play it correctly.

I wasn't saying the rotation is simple, I said the reason that it's no longer available to all three specs is simple to understand.

[Raetary]

shaldorei

wrong.
its Shal'dorei

[Padwarle]

The females on the right sure have long necks.

[Saiyendra]

Having it available to all three specs drove towards a homogeneity of gameplay, but now it is only available to one spec so that risk is neutered.

Saying that Breath of Sindragosa homogenized gameplay is utterly wrong. Frost does not use the talent in WoD, while it promotes entirely different gameplay in Blood and Unholy. Unholy aims to maximize rune expenditure in the BoS window, while Blood has a more reactive gameplay in that you pool resources during periods of good auto-attack RNG and use extenders (arcane torrent, ERW) to bridge gaps of poor RNG.

The talent has easily been one of the best parts of WoD blood/unholy - it's very disappointing that the gameplay is gone from these two specs and is entirely neutered for Frost via the change to costing 12 RP/s instead of 15.

[Graden]

what the hell

[Deleted]

well, got a bnet restart, wet my pants, and am now utterly deflated. Carry on.

[Mawnix]

Saying that Breath of Sindragosa homogenized gameplay is utterly wrong. Frost does not use the talent in WoD, while it promotes entirely different gameplay in Blood and Unholy. Unholy aims to maximize rune expenditure in the BoS window, while Blood has a more reactive gameplay in that you pool resources during periods of good auto-attack RNG and use extenders (arcane torrent, ERW) to bridge gaps of poor RNG.

The talent has easily been one of the best parts of WoD blood/unholy - it's very disappointing that the gameplay is gone from these two specs and is entirely neutered for Frost via the change to costing 12 RP/s instead of 15.

I couldn't be finer with it gone. It fit Frost far more than it fit the other specs. For how the game was in WoD and previously, I completely agree, it changed up the gameplay entirely and was a great talent to choose.

But we're not talking about how the class played back then. Mechanically, especially when it comes to Rune management, each spec has changed vastly. Not to mention Unholy's focus upon Festering Wounds IMO completely changes the game and makes up for the lack of Breath.

Breath is amazing for Frost in Legion due to Runic Empowerment having a 1% chance to refund a rune based on how much Runic Power you spend. Breath has amazing synergy with that. However, I'm still considering possibly taking one of the other choices depending on the situation, but still.

I don't get the issue with it. If we were playing the same class as we were in WoD and lost the talent going forward, I'd fully agree, but we're not playing the same class that existed in WoD anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

Not that simple when majority of DKs cant play it correctly.

I feel like this is a moot point though. You're still going to have every single person talenting towards it. You're still going to be making every DK be a copy paste of one another where it comes down to the absolute last digit upon meters to determine which is better (of course taking Skill into account as well). That accounts for what each spec can do and their functionality as well.

Like, great, everyone takes it cuz it's the best choice like every Hardcore player does when it comes to progression. You're, in the process, bottlenecking your class design and creating a copy paste between not only classes now but specs as well.

If you create a mechanic to offset this and make up for its loss, to change things up and make it far more "fun" for the player, then I can't possibly see what the problem with it is. I'd rather my Frost spec not to feel like an Unholy spec minus the pet, and that's what we're getting with Legion.

Missing the ability itself is fine. I get that. I'll miss it in Unholy as well. But I'm far more accepting of changes that overall make the spec feel like Unholy, feel like Blood, feel like Frost and do their jobs properly rather than have every spec do the same shit regardless of their role. That's boring gameplay.

[Chickat]

Not much movement today eh.

[Deleted]

what the hell

Ah the old Shal'giraffe I see.