[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Theodarzna]

The other problem for Hillary v. Trump is she sucks in Open primaries, and Bernie often did better than expected there.

Not saying Indies will go Trump, I certainly will not, but the most likely situation is simply not voting. Which again makes it a Base GOTV election. The Berniecrats and Independents whom supported Bernie are likely just disaffected voters whom won't show up to the polls come November. So Hillary has to rally the Democrats who aren't Bernie voters against Trump's base which is very dedicated.

And whilst one can mock the dedication of Bernie voters, either Bernie voters are small, but big enough to cause a storm and threat to Clinton, OR aren't super motivated and if they were just not as motivated for Bernie, why would they rally for Clinton?

Hillary is going to enter a lesser of Two Evils election, and I suppose is hoping to be the lesser evil. But do people turn out the vote in those elections? Plus looking at voting returns the chilling effect of DNC apparatchiks and Hillary's supporters trying to suppress the Primary process to give Hillary a smooth road to the Nomination has severely depressed turnout among Democrats. OR Even if you don't believe the DNC's thumb was on the scale, Turnout was poor among Democrats imply a severely weak interest thus far, were as the Republicans (Trumps Republicans anyway) are fired up and excited. Trump thus far not just Kills it in GOP primaries but does well in the Open primaries. Which means he is going to bring in people or IS bringing in people. Hillary? Idk if she is registering lots of new voters to her cause, but I know her campaign, and its supporters desperately want them gone and to go away.

Hillary's campaign dedicated itself to "Destroy Bernie, Unity later," Well exactly what is her plan for Unity?

[Fugus]

Hillary's campaign dedicated itself to "Destroy Bernie, Unity later," Well exactly what is her plan for Unity?

Actually, I don't think she has one. I think overall she is thinking that the die hard democrats who vote based on party affiliation regardless of candidate combined with the GOP voters who will vote for her out of fear of trump will get her the win.

As far as Sanders and his supporters are concerned, they can go fuck themselves, she doesn't need them and doesn't care what they want.

Wonder how much longer this draws out and with how this push is getting stronger each year before something gives and either both parties collapse and new parties replace them or they finally suck it up and start responding to the will of the younger votes and not just the older ones who haven't had to deal with the repercussions of their issues that they forced onto the younger generation.

Overall, it feels like things have drug to the right so much that the GOP is about to self destruct from how far it has gone while the DNC is becoming the new GOP economically. If that does happen and the GOP dies, wonder what spawns from the ashes to form the new 2nd party.

[Theodarzna]

Actually, I don't think she has one. I think overall she is thinking that the die hard democrats who vote based on party affiliation regardless of candidate combined with the GOP voters who will vote for her out of fear of trump will get her the win.

As far as Sanders and his supporters are concerned, they can go fuck themselves, she doesn't need them and doesn't care what they want.

Wonder how much longer this draws out and with how this push is getting stronger each year before something gives and either both parties collapse and new parties replace them or they finally suck it up and start responding to the will of the younger votes and not just the older ones who haven't had to deal with the repercussions of their issues that they forced onto the younger generation.

Overall, it feels like things have drug to the right so much that the GOP is about to self destruct from how far it has gone while the DNC is becoming the new GOP economically. If that does happen and the GOP dies, wonder what spawns from the ashes to form the new 2nd party.

Die hard democrats don't really exist, the saying goes Republicans will fight through blizzards to vote, Democrats need perfect weather to even consider it.

Hence why even with the Die hards backing the anointed candidate, Bernie has still done remarkably well with zero institutional support.

[Rukh]

Here is Fivethirtyeight's target tracker:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...ets/democrats/

Currently, Bernie is at 92% of what he needs to be at right now to be on-target. Clinton is at 108% of what she needs.

Bernie has a lower target than Clinton up until June 7th which is where he depends on winning half of California, half of New Jersey, and doing well is a handful of other states. Unfortunately, Sanders is polling way behind in California and somewhat behind in New Jersey. There's just not any point in the future primary where Sanders has a gamechanger.

[Fugus]

Die hard democrats don't really exist, the saying goes Republicans will fight through blizzards to vote, Democrats need perfect weather to even consider it.

Hence why even with the Die hards backing the anointed candidate, Bernie has still done remarkably well with zero institutional support.

There aren't as many die hard democrats but they are out there. She is betting on them and the protest vote from the GOP to win her the election.

Will be interesting either way though. If Independents were allowed to vote in all the primaries, things might be very different now. But as it stands, in the general even though the independents can vote, many of them that would have voted for Sanders will now just stay home.

As it stands, in the open places, Sanders typically did well which should be an idea of how the general would go. Without that independents voting in the general, it might not be so pretty.

At this point, wouldn't be will to bet money on either of them come the general, the odds are too tight as it is and Trump is the oddity in that the more shit they throw at him, the stronger is seems to make him. Like he is that Golgothan Shit Demon from the movie Dogma. While Hillary honestly has too much to be thrown at her with her past but the fact of the matter is it already has by the GOP trying to discredit her (along with some stuff that were flat out BS by them as well) before they found out that if she now loses they have to deal with Trump so it would all feel like old news at this point anyways along with the fact the GOP establishment are rooting for Hillary to win and won't do anymore than they have to at discrediting her at this point.

[Theodarzna]

There aren't as many die hard democrats but they are out there. She is betting on them and the protest vote from the GOP to win her the election.

Will be interesting either way though. If Independents were allowed to vote in all the primaries, things might be very different now. But as it stands, in the general even though the independents can vote, many of them that would have voted for Sanders will now just stay home.

As it stands, in the open places, Sanders typically did well which should be an idea of how the general would go. Without that independents voting in the general, it might not be so pretty.

At this point, wouldn't be will to bet money on either of them come the general, the odds are too tight as it is and Trump is the oddity in that the more shit they throw at him, the stronger is seems to make him. Like he is that Golgothan Shit Demon from the movie Dogma. While Hillary honestly has too much to be thrown at her with her past but the fact of the matter is it already has by the GOP trying to discredit her (along with some stuff that were flat out BS by them as well) before they found out that if she now loses they have to deal with Trump so it would all feel like old news at this point anyways along with the fact the GOP establishment are rooting for Hillary to win and won't do anymore than they have to at discrediting her at this point.

That is a risky gamble, I am more inclined to believe the Bernie vote and the Anti-Trump Republicans don't vote. Hillary may win, but it is a sad testament to her electability that she needs all the institutional support, both parties, heavy handed voter suppression and shannigans, total media support and universal belt way acclaim for a "maybe."

[Fugus]

That is a risky gamble, I am more inclined to believe the Bernie vote and the Anti-Trump Republicans don't vote. Hillary may win, but it is a sad testament to her electability that she needs all the institutional support, both parties, heavy handed voter suppression and shannigans, total media support and universal belt way acclaim for a "maybe."

Agreed but the fact that she refuses to even make anymore compromises than she needed to to win the primary already tells me what I need to know about her. Also leads me to believe that much of what she is promising due to Sanders will fall by the wayside after the primary is over and she expects people to vote for her because she isn't trump.

[Skroe]

Agreed but the fact that she refuses to even make anymore compromises than she needed to to win the primary already tells me what I need to know about her. Also leads me to believe that much of what she is promising due to Sanders will fall by the wayside after the primary is over and she expects people to vote for her because she isn't trump.

And Shadowferal was wondering why I support Hillary expecting that.

You see focus, Hillary using and abusing liberal democrats is a feature, not a bug.

[Theodarzna]

Agreed but the fact that she refuses to even make anymore compromises than she needed to to win the primary already tells me what I need to know about her. Also leads me to believe that much of what she is promising due to Sanders will fall by the wayside after the primary is over and she expects people to vote for her because she isn't trump.

She is mistaken in assuming its easy to rally those voters. Obama failed to recapture that magic and he was the same guy in 2010.

[Skroe]

That is a risky gamble, I am more inclined to believe the Bernie vote and the Anti-Trump Republicans don't vote. Hillary may win, but it is a sad testament to her electability that she needs all the institutional support, both parties, heavy handed voter suppression and shannigans, total media support and universal belt way acclaim for a "maybe."

I'm gonna keep saying this until I'm blue in the face: why are we engaging in this fiction that all votes matter. They simply do not.

If a Bernie supporter in New York, mad as hell at Hillary, stays home, it's a big who cares. Democrats win California, New York (and other Democratic bastions, totalling 214 electoral votes out of 270) by such ginormous margins that even if half of all Democrats stay home, they still manage to win the state. The same goes with Anti-Trump republicans. I'm Anti-Trump in Massachusetts. My vote doesn't matter! I'll vote Hillary in the General Election out of general principle. But who am I kidding? My vote isn't helping her win. She has Massachusetts electoral votes just by having a (D) next to her name and not being a maniac.

The only votes that matter are voters in:
New Hampshire
Pennsylvannia
Ohio
North Carolina
Virginia
Florida
Iowa
Colorado
Nevada
Wisconsin

And keep in mind some of these have voted Democratic in 2004, 2008 and 2012 and are trending Democratic again.

Some combination of states will get her to 270 from 214 very easily.

Pennsylvania + New Hampshire + Virginia + North Carolina + Iowa = 275

Pennsylvania + New Hampshire + Virginia + Ohio = 272

Pennsylvania + Ohio + Florida = 284

Pennsylvania + Wisconsin + Colorado + Ohio = 274

There's just a ton of routes to it.

So let's just cut out the fiction. If you're a Bernie supporter in one of the above states... you matter a lot. If you're an independent in one of the above states, get ready to be pandered to relentlessly. If you're a anti-Trump republican in an above state, get ready for Hillary to move into your life for a few months.

But if you live anywhere else, your role in the 2016 election is basically over. That goes for me. That goes for most everybody. You win the Presidential election with Electoral Votes, just as you win the nomination Delegates. Bernie Sanders supporters in Oregon or anti-Trump Republicans in Massachusetts are effectively non-entities

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She is mistaken in assuming its easy to rally those voters. Obama failed to recapture that magic and he was the same guy in 2010.

But he did it in 2012.

[Shadowferal]

Hear this, Sanders supporters — you don’t need to back Hillary: You have every right to say “Bernie or bust”

Bernie backers want change, not the status quo that Clinton offers, so they have no obligation to her in November

“Bernie or Bust!” That’s the defiant rallying cry of the Bernie Sanders hardcore, the pledge made by Sanders supporters that intend to vote for him and him alone in the general election – whether his name’s on the ballot or not. It’s not just a disaffected few making a stand either; these ‘Bernie or Busters’ don’t constitute a mere handful of the senator’s many devotees. In November, a reported 33% of Bernie Sanders supporters won’t give Hillary Clinton their vote if she wins the Democratic bid. That’s a sizable chunk of Dem voters – over 41% of them so far – saying it’s either Bernie Sanders for President, or nobody at all.
----------------

C'mon, you know you want to say it; "President Trump"

I bet that made you feel good.

[breadisfunny]

i might vote for trump just to watch the world burn. not accepting the status quo anymore.

[Fugus]

I'm gonna keep saying this until I'm blue in the face: why are we engaging in this fiction that all votes matter. They simply do not.

If a Bernie supporter in New York, mad as hell at Hillary, stays home, it's a big who cares. Democrats win California, New York (and other Democratic bastions, totalling 214 electoral votes out of 270) by such ginormous margins that even if half of all Democrats stay home, they still manage to win the state. The same goes with Anti-Trump republicans. I'm Anti-Trump in Massachusetts. My vote doesn't matter! I'll vote Hillary in the General Election out of general principle. But who am I kidding? My vote isn't helping her win. She has Massachusetts electoral votes just by having a (D) next to her name and not being a maniac.

The only votes that matter are voters in:
New Hampshire
Pennsylvannia
Ohio
North Carolina
Virginia
Florida
Iowa
Colorado
Nevada
Wisconsin

And keep in mind some of these have voted Democratic in 2004, 2008 and 2012 and are trending Democratic again.

Some combination of states will get her to 270 from 214 very easily.

Pennsylvania + New Hampshire + Virginia + North Carolina + Iowa = 275

Pennsylvania + New Hampshire + Virginia + Ohio = 272

Pennsylvania + Ohio + Florida = 284

Pennsylvania + Wisconsin + Colorado + Ohio = 274

There's just a ton of routes to it.

So let's just cut out the fiction. If you're a Bernie supporter in one of the above states... you matter a lot. If you're an independent in one of the above states, get ready to be pandered to relentlessly. If you're a anti-Trump republican in an above state, get ready for Hillary to move into your life for a few months.

But if you live anywhere else, your role in the 2016 election is basically over. That goes for me. That goes for most everybody. You win the Presidential election with Electoral Votes, just as you win the nomination Delegates. Bernie Sanders supporters in Oregon or anti-Trump Republicans in Massachusetts are effectively non-entities

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But he did it in 2012.

Well, fortunately for me Skroe, as a resident of North Carolina, I am not voting for Hillary nor is many others.

Knowing how this state goes as a whole or that Trump rally that happened about 6 miles from my home where an old man attacked a protester. This state as a whole is pretty well going for Trump unfortunately it seems.

Hillary isn't as well liked here as you wish they were.

But I do find it funny that you are betting on Hillary lying once she gets in, that just verifies that she is one of the worst ones to possibly get into office and even if she does, it would be short lived victory as the following election the push for better would be stronger and so on till something changes.

You keep thinking this push is because of Sanders when it isn't, he is just the newest person at the front of it.

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And Shadowferal was wondering why I support Hillary expecting that.

You see focus, Hillary using and abusing liberal democrats is a feature, not a bug.

I guess abusing voters as a whole is a feature since they are abusing democrats and republicans as a whole this entire election.

You are like the Orlong of primaries it seems.

[Skroe]

Well, fortunately for me Skroe, as a resident of North Carolina, I am not voting for Hillary nor is many others.

Knowing how this state goes as a whole or that Trump rally that happened about 6 miles from my home where an old man attacked a protester. This state as a whole is pretty well going for Trump unfortunately it seems.

Hillary isn't as well liked here as you wish they were.

But I do find it funny that you are betting on Hillary lying once she gets in, that just verifies that she is one of the worst ones to possibly get into office and even if she does, it would be short lived victory as the following election the push for better would be stronger and so on till something changes.

You keep thinking this push is because of Sanders when it isn't, he is just the newest person at the front of it.

And that's fine. You matter. And I'm CERTAINLY not saying Hillary is liked in NC. I haven't seen the trump versus hillary polling there or in the other swing states yet. That's way later.

My point is, let's not waste time engaging in some kind of abstract discussion where Hillary is fucked because the meaningless popular vote is dragged won by Bernie supporters in democratic bastions or republican bastions staying home. Those folks don't matter. In the general election, I, a Massachusetts voter, do not matter.

However If Bernie supporters and independents in the swing states come around to her, she'll win. If they don't, she won't. It's that simple. Those are the ONLY voters, the ONLY Bernie Supporters and the ONLY independents that matter. Her ability to attract independents in California? That's a big fuckin who-cares burger.

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I guess abusing voters as a whole is a feature since they are abusing democrats and republicans as a whole this entire election.

You are like the Orlong of primaries it seems.

I don't know what you mean by that since I don't keep track of who Orlong is or what he writes to that degree, but I will say that as I have said many times before, I see this election a twice-in-a-century opportunity to crush the far left and far right and assert the dominance of the moderate super-majority.

Bernie Sanders had the displeasure of being first. Trump is next. Frankly, I wanted Cruz to be the nominee because they represent two different types of extremism, and it'll be sick if we have to go through this again with Cruz in 2020. But that's the general idea. The extremism of Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and their supporters must be smashed into the dirt where it belongs.

[Fugus]

And that's fine. You matter. And I'm CERTAINLY not saying Hillary is liked in NC. I haven't seen the trump versus hillary polling there or in the other swing states yet. That's way later.

My point is, let's not waste time engaging in some kind of abstract discussion where Hillary is fucked because the meaningless popular vote is dragged won by Bernie supporters in democratic bastions or republican bastions staying home. Those folks don't matter. In the general election, I, a Massachusetts voter, do not matter.

However If Bernie supporters and independents in the swing states come around to her, she'll win. If they don't, she won't. It's that simple. Those are the ONLY voters, the ONLY Bernie Supporters and the ONLY independents that matter. Her ability to attract independents in California? That's a big fuckin who-cares burger.

As a resident of North Carolina, at least in my area around it which is basically around the Fort Bragg area, from what I have seen, this place is firmly in Trump land. This place has a lot of closet trump supporters along with a bunch of Sanders supporters who refuse to vote Clinton and a few here and there actual Clinton supporters who plan to vote, the vast majority of Democrats around here don't know or care about the elections at this point.

With how gerrymandered the districts are in North Carolina, much of the Democrat and Independent voters flat out have given up for real change here. It would take about 80% of the popular votes just for a split in our seats. With a 50/50 split, our seats are split 3 to 10.

And not saying Hillary is fucked, I am saying that she is far from a sure thing, they gave up the sure thing when they snubbed Sanders. Hillary has a very real chance of losing to Trump due to all the crap that was pulled. She is banking entirely on disillusioned republicans voting for her to avoid Trump while basically flipping the bird to Sanders supporters like they aren't needed or wanted which hurts her chances even further.

Sorry but she is making sure that Bernie supporters and independents in swing states stay home rather than support her. She even had an interview where they asked her about what she would do to get their votes and she basically told them to get fucked in the most politically neutral way possible.

Quite literally, DNC had a choice between a sure win with Sanders and a gamble with Clinton and they took the gamble with Clinton and she is so cocky at this point that she is shooting herself in the foot risking it further.

Quite literally, her entire platform after Sanders is screwed out of the primaries by the DNC and the media appears to turning into "I'm not Trump" with nothing else worth voting for as she really isn't trying to do much of anything.

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I don't know what you mean by that since I don't keep track of who Orlong is or what he writes to that degree, but I will say that as I have said many times before, I see this election a twice-in-a-century opportunity to crush the far left and far right and assert the dominance of the moderate super-majority.

Bernie Sanders had the displeasure of being first. Trump is next. Frankly, I wanted Cruz to be the nominee because they represent two different types of extremism, and it'll be sick if we have to go through this again with Cruz in 2020. But that's the general idea. The extremism of Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and their supporters must be smashed into the dirt where it belongs.

Except this isn't them crushing the Far Left and Far Right. This is them crushing the centrist and the far right while leaving the moderate right and the extremist right to duke it out in the general. Sanders isn't far left. We don't have a left anymore it seems.

And you keep making the same mistake, you keep mistaking Sanders as the start of the movement and killing him will kill the push, he isn't the start of the push nor will he be the end. That is like those racists back in the day who thought that killing MLK would kill the push for equal rights. You are mistaking the current leader as the one who is causing the push when the fact is they are just the current front of it. This push is what got Obama elected only to have him renege, it was the one that got Ron Paul further than he would have and it was the push that gave Sanders as much steam as he had that it took the DNC and media doing him dirty just to try and hold him back further.

This push will continue next election and probably be even stronger and will continue to increase as the older generation dies out and the younger generation who had to grow up dealing with their mess starts taking control with access to the internet and such to actually get information which our main news stations have proven unwilling to give many times.

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If Trump ends up winning due to them putting Clinton out front how are you going to react and whom are you going to blame?

[Theodarzna]

I'm gonna keep saying this until I'm blue in the face: why are we engaging in this fiction that all votes matter. They simply do not.

Why do you think I care to engage in conversation with a chickenhawk trustfarian? You seem to have a lot of time to scream until your blue in the face. If only you could put that energy towards literally anything else.

And keep in mind some of these have voted Democratic in 2004, 2008 and 2012 and are trending Democratic again.

Trending Democratic? Are there more registered Democrats than normal or have they been winning? Yes Democrats have occasionally pilfered those states.

If a Bernie supporter in New York, mad as hell at Hillary, stays home, it's a big who cares.

Bernie did receive votes in all the states contested. And did exceptionally well with first time voters, and independents, thus his strengths in Open Primaries.

So let's just cut out the fiction.

I do wish you would cut out a lot of your fictions, like your personal grudge against Bernie, as if he bukkakkied your mother with Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinnech and your just struggling to deal with it. Me and you clearly come from the same social class yet for some reason I am not up in arms and you are practically acting personally offended, either you take politics too seriously, or you take yourself too seriously. Neither are attractive traits.

If you're an independent in one of the above states, get ready to be pandered to relentlessly. If you're a anti-Trump republican in an above state, get ready for Hillary to move into your life for a few months.

Yawn, so again a Lesser of Two Evils election. Once again the core mechanics remains the same, disinterested voters whose base WANTS IT MORE. Do people hate Trump enough to vote? I know the people who LOVE TRUMP do enough to vote. It does not matter what State you pick, in all of them there is the same effect, disinterested voters, and the dispassioned decision between a bloody tampon and a pile of shit. Which would you stuff in your mouth first? OR would you simple avoid answering that question. You've clearly chosen an unhealthy fascination with stuffing a bloody tampon metaphorically of course down your throat, and that is fine, I too would choose that over a pile of shit. BUTTTTT I have the sense to just side step the question and avoid picking either.

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I don't know what you mean by that since I don't keep track of who Orlong is or what he writes to that degree, but I will say that as I have said many times before, I see this election a twice-in-a-century opportunity to crush the far left and far right and assert the dominance of the moderate super-majority.

Bernie Sanders had the displeasure of being first. Trump is next. Frankly, I wanted Cruz to be the nominee because they represent two different types of extremism, and it'll be sick if we have to go through this again with Cruz in 2020. But that's the general idea. The extremism of Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and their supporters must be smashed into the dirt where it belongs.

Crushing? Ha, its as if you don't even know how humans work in the world. Too much time playing WoW and fiddling with ones and zeros.

All it does is confirm what everyone knew since the 50's, the country is corrupt and the government is rigged. Most have known that since Watergate and COINTELPRO. You don't cut out a man's tongue to convince the world he is a liar, you do it out of fear. It matters not what your reasons are all that matters is optics. The Media is perceived as shafting the people, The process APPEARS rigged. I am not even saying it is, but it appears as such as appearance is everything.

All you've done is confirmed what we all knew, The country is a corrupt bloated mess whose only function is to fatted your dads bank account and your trust fund most likely.

Far from a "Centrist," super majority of which Centrists do not really exist. You have a dominance of a politic clique affirmed.

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As a resident of North Carolina, at least in my area around it which is basically around the Fort Bragg area, from what I have seen, this place is firmly in Trump land. This place has a lot of closet trump supporters along with a bunch of Sanders supporters who refuse to vote Clinton and a few here and there actual Clinton supporters who plan to vote, the vast majority of Democrats around here don't know or care about the elections at this point.

Closeted Trump supporters are a real thing, though I am out in California, I have met more than a few. Trump is IMHO not to be underestimated. He got this far even with everyone against him.

Hillary had to throw everything and the kitchen sink just to stop Sanders. A self-described Socialist could even now still prevent her from getting the regular delegate count she needs. Though unlikely that has got to sting for her knowing she is this weak as a candidate.

[Nadiru]

Crushing? Ha, its as if you don't even know how humans work in the world. Too much time playing WoW and fiddling with ones and zeros.

All it does is confirm what everyone knew since the 50's, the country is corrupt and the government is rigged. Most have known that since Watergate and COINTELPRO. You don't cut out a man's tongue to convince the world he is a liar, you do it out of fear. It matters not what your reasons are all that matters is optics. The Media is perceived as shafting the people, The process APPEARS rigged. I am not even saying it is, but it appears as such as appearance is everything.

All you've done is confirmed what we all knew, The country is a corrupt bloated mess whose only function is to fatted your dads bank account and your trust fund most likely.

Far from a "Centrist," super majority of which Centrists do not really exist. You have a dominance of a politic clique affirmed.

Careful with all that edge, son. You might hurt someone, or yourself. At any rate, the argument about Sanders not getting any TV time is grounded in the knowledge that candidates need the Boomer vote to win. But the Boomers wouldn't vote for Sanders even if every TV station did nothing but talk about Sanders from now until November because he doesn't represent the things Boomers go for. He may have represented what they once wanted some 40 years ago, but that shit ain't true now in Anno Domini 2016.

The process only appears rigged because Sanders is shilled so hard on the internet because he has several dozen million young people on the net 24/7 with nothing better to do than foist Sanders' views onto people. And if there's such a huge dissonance between TeeVee and the Interweb, then there has to be some kind of evil plot to suppress Sanders, right? Except Hillary's won the popular vote as far as the whole primary season is concerned, by a wide margin: RCP has it at >3 million votes for Hillary over Sanders. So maybe it's not that Sanders is being oppressed, maybe it's that he's simply not a very good candidate.

[Deletedaccount1]

Closeted Trump supporters are a real thing, though I am out in California, I have met more than a few. Trump is IMHO not to be underestimated. He got this far even with everyone against him.

Whenever you post anything, you rely on nothing but anecdotal evidence, pure speculation, straw men and muddy reasoning.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/190403/se...ion-trump.aspx
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-tr...election-looms

The fact is that Trump polls lower than his opponents with virtually all groups except for white men over 60, in which case he only leads by a small margin.

[Nadiru]

Whenever you post anything, you rely on nothing but anecdotal evidence, pure speculations, straw men and muddy reasoning.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/190403/se...ion-trump.aspx
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-tr...election-looms

The fact is that Trump polls lower than his opponents with virtually all groups except for white men over 60, in which case he only leads by a small margin.

I've never bought the "Trump is polling like shit, he's gonna lose" argument. Everything about Trump's campaign has been unorthodox and somehow successful despite it, why should the polls be any different?

[Deletedaccount1]

I've never bought the "Trump is polling like shit, he's gonna lose" argument. Everything about Trump's campaign has been unorthodox and somehow successful despite it, why should the polls be any different?

Suddenly polls don't matter because he is an unusual candidate?

He has managed to piss off huge voting blocs. He barely gets 45-50% Republican support right now.

Polls consistently show that most women and minorities hate him and you can't win an election right now if that is the case. Hillary can be as unpopular as hell but it doesn't mean anything if the candidate on the other side is hated more.