"It's only cosmetics"

[TheLimonTree]

Depends on the game though. When games deliberately leave stuff out so they can charge extra for it later... well...

Would you be happy if you just ordered a meal at a restaurant only to be told that spoons & forks require a $10 additional payment ?

Or for the "cosmetic angle", they give you a plate of grey goo, and you're told that it tastes the same as the deluxe version, but if you want the "cosmetic" upgrade, it costs extra ?

I feel a better example would be they serve it with wooden plates and bowls and getting it ornate ceramics costs extra.

[unholytestament]

You aren't actually answering anything

No, I'm not answering the ridiculous hypothetical you asked. Because it's ridiculous and doesn't really reflect anything we have right now.

you're just saying I'm ignoring stuff? Guess I'm done with this conversation.

I'm saying you seem disinclined to talk about current games as they currently are and you seem to want to ignore that the way statistical rewards and cosmetic rewards are handled is different across the board, not just peoples' attitudes towards the possibility of paying for them. In fact, when I pointed that last one out you accused me of "think it doesn't matter at all if there are no aesthetic rewards in the game and it's just all in the cash shop?" and when I asked what game you were talking about you declared this conversation done.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Rehija]

NA or EU version? I know EU is pretty shit because of Gameforge

EU. A good Example for the hidden P2W are the socket helpers. You can get them via dungeons or PvP and/or the dual gems but these are extremely rare if you dont buy them via the shop. And dont even think about using dual gems without the socket helpers.

The last time i played was about 2 Years ago and then you could get only 20% socket helpers via ingame efforts, 100% via the shop.

All in all Aion is a pretty solid game, even under Gameforge and like i said, the P2W is well hidden bcs. you can get everything via ingame efforts or the Auction House.

[Niwes]

hopefully someone (moana lisa i looking at you) close this thread, because the ops question could not be anything other than trolling...

[Baconeggcheese]

Looking cool doesn't give someone an advantage over anyone else.

Bruh you can beat me but if you don't look as fly as I do you still lost.

[-aiko-]

Also, "best looking stuff" is a matter of opinion.

Pretty much this.

What looks the best is entirely subjective. Buying items that give you a statistical advantage is not.

[Baconeggcheese]

If you can just buy the best looking stuff... isn't that just selling away the prestige of the game?

That's entirely dependent on what's available in the game.

If you have a game where almost if not all cosmetics are linked to the cash shop then yes you've removed prestige from the game assuming there isn't some other system in place that allows players to differentiate.

If you have a game that has cash shop aesthetics but still primarily has earned exclusive aesthetic items in game, prestige is maintained.

Neither of those situations is as egregious as selling player power though, which is on a completely different level.

[Katchii]

You aren't actually answering anything you're just saying I'm ignoring stuff? Guess I'm done with this conversation.

This entire thread had everything said that could have or needed to be said the first time someone said, it's subjective and different games do it differently...

There is no more discussion to be had, and it seemed you were ignoring everything everyone had to say anyway, continuing to ask asinine hyperbolic questions about what if they did X or Y instead? when several people pointed out 1) It's subjective and 2) the scenarios you were posing were not likely to happen.

As @unholytestament already said, don't ask a question and then ignore all of the responses.

[Faroth]

Imagine playing a game of chess. There are white wooden pieces and black wooden pieces.

Now for an extra $5, you're able to use glossy black glass or shining silver metal pieces. It doesn't change the game.

Now what if an extra $5 gave you an extra 3 pawns?

That's the difference.

[Deleted]

I remember when I unlocked "skins" just by playing and completing games.

Most 007 games, Bully, GTA Vice City, San Andreas, Ratchet and Clank games, God of War, Need for Speed games, Jedi Knight, etc are just some examples that I own from the PS2/Windows XP era where the trend above is true.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I don't care about silly cosmetics that breaks the lore of the world for micro transactions, like an astronaut helmet or stupid shit like that, but when the shining armor of awesome is a micro transaction then I can't help but feel ripped off, because the aesthetics are very much a part of the game. That is also why I can't stand blizzards cash shop, where you get the the truly new mounts wheres your raid/pvp/lore/rare-kill achievements give you the 10th reskin of a model that is 4 expansions old. Especially for an ongoing subscription I expect a lot more in f2p I can tolerate it to some degree, but you certainly won't see me agree to the god awful business model like the EU tera folks have, where you have to gamble for decent armor skin with your micro transactions.. fuck that.

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Imagine playing a game of chess. There are white wooden pieces and black wooden pieces.

Now for an extra $5, you're able to use glossy black glass or shining silver metal pieces. It doesn't change the game.

Now what if an extra $5 gave you an extra 3 pawns?

That's the difference.

Considering the amount of themed chess sets out there when a little carved symbol on a chip would suffice I'd say your example is not as clever as you think it is. It's like advertising the set on the box and when you open it you find a note saying if you want the actual pieces besides the chips you have to pay extra.

[Deleted]

Looking cool doesn't give someone an advantage over anyone else.

Why play the game then? Just use windows calculator if you want to play with numbers.


I totally agree with OP. Even one of my favorite game critic Totalbiscuit says "it's just cosmetics" without giving it any thoughts anymore. Sadly it's accepted as standard now. This kind of thinking for sure appeals to many people, but me and many others are not among them and we don't have any f2p game or any mmo who wouldn't sell cosmetics. I'm sure there are other ways of making money, but cosmetics shouldn't be one of them. WoW was like that, that's the reason I started playing it and I'm 100% sure that I wouldn't give it a try if I would know that later they'll start selling cosmetics, especially armor like helms. This pushes many people away.

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Depends on the game though.

For shooter games like Counter-Strike I see no problem if weapon skin exist and can be bought and sold. But there is absolutely no excuse for WoW to sell any cosmetic items, especially armors. Not because it's subscription game, but because it's an MMORPG.
In RPG's games gear matters the most, not only stats, but the way it looks too.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Most people (or the most vocal people at least) value the ability to trivialise gameplay higher than appearances, simple as that.
Winning gives more prestige in a game than looking good.
Most people play the game to accomplish something, and the feeling that someone else can achieve the same just by buying it diminishes their accomplishment in their eyes. It's especially relevant when there's competition involved. It makes the gamefield fundamentally unfair if one player can get ahead by means other than gameplay. It's cheating.
You see the same thing in football in the UK actually. When Manchester City were bought by a rich arab a few years back, then a few years later won the league, many fans of other teams were complaining that Man City had "bought the league".

[Deleted]

Most people (or the most vocal people at least) value the ability to trivialise gameplay higher than appearances, simple as that.
Winning gives more prestige in a game than looking good.
Most people play the game to accomplish something, and the feeling that someone else can achieve the same just by buying it diminishes their accomplishment in their eyes. It's especially relevant when there's competition involved. It makes the gamefield fundamentally unfair if one player can get ahead by means other than gameplay. It's cheating.

Bullshit. If that would be true, everyone would be raiding Mythic. Looks like majority don't bother getting the best gear, they just want decent gear. But almost everyone in WoW has their gear transmoged into their favorite looking armor and in many cases this is the reason why they even do those raids and other things and would spend days and days farming just to get transmog. I say that cosmetics are as important as stats.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Bullshit. If that would be true, everyone would be raiding Mythic. Looks like majority don't bother getting the best gear, they just want decent gear. But almost everyone in WoW has their gear transmoged into their favorite looking armor and in many cases this is the reason why they even do those raids and other things and would spend days and days farming just to get transmog. I say that cosmetics are as important as stats.

But I didn't say it was stats. I said it's competition. I also added the caveat that it's the most vocal. That community are especially vocal here. It's not just gear motivation. It's boss kill motivation. If someone can beat the same boss you beat by trivialising it, they feel it lessens their accomplishment. (Not talking about myself here, only 2/13 MC even now, didn't get HC Archimonde down until the ilvl boosts were out)
I'm also not saying you're wrong. You're totally entitled to think that. But the overwhelming impression given by the community is that competition>cosmetics.

[unholytestament]

Why play the game then? Just use windows calculator if you want to play with numbers.

Care to point out where I stated I would like to play with numbers. Hell, going off of just the statement you chose to quote one would assume I like the competition afforded in MMORPGs.

People should really think through their zingers. I can't imagine how embarrassing it must be to blurt out something that doesn't have anything to do with what people are saying.

I totally agree with OP. Even one of my favorite game critic Totalbiscuit says "it's just cosmetics" without giving it any thoughts anymore. Sadly it's accepted as standard now. This kind of thinking for sure appeals to many people, but me and many others are not among them and we don't have any f2p game or any mmo who wouldn't sell cosmetics. I'm sure there are other ways of making money, but cosmetics shouldn't be one of them. WoW was like that, that's the reason I started playing it and I'm 100% sure that I wouldn't give it a try if I would know that later they'll start selling cosmetics, especially armor like helms. This pushes many people away.

It's standard now, by your own admission. The people it pushes away aren't going to find too many options of something else to go to. I mean, WoW itself was actually slow to adopt the concept of buying cosmetic items. While they really ramped up the pets and mounts, they still only have those three helmets when it comes to gear and they were released almost three years ago. Most other games would have added a handful of entire costume sets by now, hell most games launch with more cosmetic gear available these days.

For shooter games like Counter-Strike I see no problem if weapon skin exist and can be bought and sold. But there is absolutely no excuse for WoW to sell any cosmetic items, especially armors. Not because it's subscription game, but because it's an MMORPG.
In RPG's games gear matters the most, not only stats, but the way it looks too.

Good thing there's still gear available in the game then.

[Fencers]

People often defend microtransactions in video games if they just alter the appearance of your character with "it's only cosmetics, so I don't care", but the second you have a +1 strength item in there.. they go batshit crazy.

Why is this?

Cosmetic items only have value according to one's perception- this is entirely subject and irrelevant to gameplay.

Stat boosting items often have an objective value and are relevant to gameplay.

[Prothynyas]

Because being able to buy power is not the same as being able to buy different appearances for your character.

Also, "best looking stuff" is a matter of opinion.

no it doesnt , ADDING STATUS TO EARNED ITEMS MATTERS

[Captain Douchebag]

no it doesnt , ADDING STATUS TO EARNED ITEMS MATTERS

I don't quite follow. Could you please elaborate?

[Prothynyas]

I don't quite follow. Could you please elaborate?

nice parrot btw

wouldnt it feel better to have unlocked a new skin for yr weapon and it to have a bonus stat on it ?

like + 2 % haste or crit or str or int
or some extra passive ability that gives you a tiny feeling of being proud of the accomplishment
compare it to earning flight skill in WoD you undertake a massive amount of work to get it and the reward should be just

take the apocalypse after unlocking a skin it could the colour of yr virulent plague or Outbreak a different visual effect or a further range to spread
or 1 in 3 double proc or anything that gives it satisfaction for you the player who wields it
and you have what 12 skins to unlock ? so you Will have a Cause to get them all
you will feel its rewarding and its like a surprise when you find out what the new skin with the new ability does or bonus stat
and now you can shift through that window on yr artifact forge to find the most pleasing adjustment to your weapon

do you catch my drift ?