One million Americans vow to boycott Target over transgender bathrooms

[Deletedaccount1]

It's arguable and yes, it can be argued all day. There is no definitive answer anywhere that backs up what you're saying, just conjecture and theory.

Didn't you say pretty early on that they aren't really women if they're transgender and sports was your argument? My apologies if I misunderstood.

My argument here is that they are not fully 100% women so they shouldn't be considered fully 100% women. This comes into place with things like sports where the jury is still out on whether it is fair or not for MtF to compete with cis women.

[Deleted]

Target is done, they are history. F target. Sorry target but you sold out and brought this on yourself. All the founders and current leaders of target should also be ostracized as well.

You don't really think the boycott of a tiny minority of people, who probably won't even remember why they are doing it after two weeks - or can't be bothered anymore to do so - will put a giant like Target out of business, do you? That's hilarious.

[kail]

Yhttp://thefederalist.com/2016/01/27/allowing-transgender-olympians-is-unfair-to-women/

We can do this all this day dude, more organizations have banned it than allowed it.

You must be new to finding credible sources. You post an opinion piece without any medical backings whatsoever. Doubt you even read your source, it's simply an opinionated article.

I gave you three sports organizations, NCAA, MMA, and IOC. All of those organizations based their decisions on evidence and studies conducted by doctors that state hormone therapy evens the playing field.

Your source would be unaccepted as valid by any worthy college professor if you cite it for your paper.

[Azadina]

You don't really think the boycott of a tiny minority of people, who probably won't even remember why they are doing it after two weeks - or can't be bothered anymore to do so - will put a giant like Target out of business, do you? That's hilarious.

Then he'd call some other group delusional. Oh the irony

[katmandu26]

My argument here is that they are not fully 100% women so they shouldn't be considered fully 100% women. This comes into place with things like sports where the jury is still out on whether it is fair or not for MtF to compete with cis women.

"Things like sports". Name something else and give me one real, good reason why you shouldn't call a transgender man "he" other than personal prejudice.

[Deletedaccount1]

You must be new to finding credible sources. You post an opinion piece without any medical backings whatsoever. Doubt you even read your source, it's simply an opinionated article.

I gave you three sports organizations, NCAA, MMA, and IOC. All of those organizations based their decisions on evidence and studies conducted by doctors that state hormone therapy evens the playing field.

Your source would be unaccepted as valid by any worthy college professor if you cite it for your paper.

Good thing we are arguing on a World of Warcraft fan forum and not on my Ivy League thesis. You gave me two doctors who said that muscle mass reduction through hormone therapy was enough to level the playing field for a select few sports. Those are 3 organizations out of thousands for hundreds of sports. You can't expect that MtF trans don't have obvious advantages in sports like American Football or Baseball where actual arm structure and bone size matter a lot for throwing, running, tackling etc.

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"Things like sports". Name something else and give me one real, good reason why you shouldn't call a transgender man "he" other than personal prejudice.

For the third time, I never said anything about pronouns.

[Azadina]

Good thing we are arguing on a World of Warcraft fan forum and not on my Ivy League thesis. You gave me two doctors who said that muscle mass reduction through hormone therapy was enough to level the playing field for a select few sports. Those are 3 organizations out of thousands for hundreds of sports. You can't expect that MtF trans don't have obvious advantages in sports like American Football or Baseball where actual arm structure and bone size matter a lot for throwing, running, tackling etc.

You do realize that not every cis woman is a 100% copy of the next? Every person has their differences. For example weight. Am I 25% of a woman because some other woman weights 4 times as much?

[katmandu26]

Good thing we are arguing on a World of Warcraft fan forum and not on my Ivy League thesis. You gave me two doctors who said that muscle mass reduction through hormone therapy was enough to level the playing field for a select few sports. Those are 3 organizations out of thousands for hundreds of sports. You can't expect that MtF trans don't have obvious advantages in sports like American Football or Baseball where actual arm structure and bone size matter a lot for throwing, running, tackling etc.

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For the third time, I never said anything about pronouns.

You may not have mentioned pronouns specifically, but continually state that transgender women are not 100% women and shouldn't be considered as such. What, then, would you call them? It's a simple question, if you don't believe they are really women or should be treated like women then you call them "he".

I also question the validity of anyone claiming to have an Ivy League education, particularly when their current location is Tokyo. Not that it's not doable, granted - just quite, quite rare.

[Deletedaccount1]

You do realize that not every cis woman is a 100% copy of the next? Every person has their differences.

I was aware of that. Thank you.

[kail]

Good thing we are arguing on a World of Warcraft fan forum and not on my Ivy League thesis. You gave me two doctors who said that muscle mass reduction through hormone therapy was enough to level the playing field for a select few sports. Those are 3 organizations out of thousands for hundreds of sports. You can't expect that MtF trans don't have obvious advantages in sports like American Football or Baseball where actual arm structure and bone size matter a lot for throwing, running, tackling etc.

And just about all of that is reduced/increased when undergoing hormone therapy. The organizations even require it (some 1 others 2 years).

Even in a WoW forum, the source you provided to back your arguments is simply laughable.

[Deletedaccount1]

You may not have mentioned pronouns specifically, but continually state that transgender women are not 100% women and shouldn't be considered as such. What, then, would you call them? It's a simple question, if you don't believe they are really women or should be treated like women then you call them "he".

I also question the validity of anyone claiming to have an Ivy League education, particularly when their current location is Tokyo. Not that it's not doable, granted - just quite, quite rare.

My honest answer is that I don't care but probably they should be called by what they prefer. If they are more of one gender than the other then why not. It doesn't matter in an informal setting because that is truly harmless. It isn't harmless in things like sports.

I never said I had an Ivy League education, he said that I would be failed for citing an opinion piece on a college paper and I quipped back that the setting is informal and not serious enough to warrant stringent citation requirements.

[Azadina]

I was aware of that. Thank you.

Then why are you going on about minor differences? People are not copies, and minor differences exist no matter what. If they mattered, every horde guild would be stripped world first achievements because of their racials.

[Deletedaccount1]

And just about all of that is reduced/increased when undergoing hormone therapy. The organizations even require it (some 1 others 2 years).

Even in a WoW forum, the source you provided to back your arguments is simply laughable.

This whole fucking argument is laughable. You are basically saying "the difference is negligible, it doesn't matter" and I am saying that it isn't because by some objective criteria there are clear differences that have real world consequences.

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Then why are you going on about minor differences? People are not copies, and minor differences exist no matter what. If they mattered, every horde guild would be stripped world first achievements because of their racials.

Because the differences are more than minor and have no reason to exist in the first place.

[Azadina]

Because the differences are more than minor.

Prove it? I don't know a single transwoman who has Mike Tysons strength

[katmandu26]

My honest answer is that I don't care but probably they should be called by what they prefer. If they are more of one gender than the other then why not. It doesn't matter in an informal setting because that is truly harmless. It isn't harmless in things like sports.

I never said I had an Ivy League education, he said that I would be failed for citing an opinion piece on a college paper and I quipped back that the setting is informal and not serious enough to warrant stringent citation requirements.

"Not on my Ivy League Thesis" seemed to imply that you had one, so I felt a need to call you on it.

However, I agree with the assessment that your wiki link is weak, at best. As we all know, the wiki is simply edited by anyone given access to it. It's not exactly known for accuracy, though they are often generally correct.

So, if I understand correctly, you really don't care what a transgender calls themselves, you only really care about it in things like sports. You have yet to provide another instance in which this would not be harmless, however.

It is simple to address, as well. Those who make the rules do their homework, figure out what is fair, and make new rules. It does not affect you in any way. Crisis solved.

[Incredibale]

Hope society takes matters into its own hands and deals with these deranged psychos trying to get into girls' restrooms.

[kail]

This whole fucking argument is laughable. You are basically saying "the difference is negligible, it doesn't matter" and I am saying that it isn't because by some objective criteria there are clear differences that have real world consequences.

No I am simply questioned this:

So what's the harm in socially considering them by their new gender?

You have yet to come up with a valid answer, can't blame me for that. Your weak argument and backing is your fault alone. Forgive me if I don't simply take your claims as fact, especially when you have a hard time proving them.

[Deleted]

Prove it? I don't know a single transwoman who has Mike Tysons strength

To be fair, even within some sports it's not completely uncontroversial. Take MMA for example, where the fact that Fallon Fox (I think that was her name?) is causing huge controversies, and a lot of other female fighters either outright refuse to - or don't want to - fight her because of the fact that she is Trans and thus think she has an advantage.

[katmandu26]

Hope society takes matters into its own hands and deals with these deranged psychos trying to get into girls' restrooms.

Here you go, my friend.

[Incredibale]

Here you go, my friend.

What's your point? Child molesters should be executed.