Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[zOObie]

"FUCK YOU BLIZZARD! You stole our game to pander to the mainstream gamers and won’t even make your own vanilla and TBC progression servers. You ruined this genre and continue to shit on your original audience."

[Deleted]

Well, i am looking forward for part 2 of the big "blizzard embraces pirates"-show.

It surely will be fun. And their next big mistake.

[kary]

This is not true at all for the average player.

In Vanilla, TBC and first 3/4 of WoTLK. I could log in and do normal dungeons, heroics and professions that mattered and had heaps of raid content to work on. Vanilla and TBC especially had very relevant dungeons and raids for the entire expansion, as well as professions. You couldn't simply AFK in a battleground or pick up better then raid quality epics from the ground. You got to experience ALL the raids as intended, without skipping past them or overgearing instantly.

Compare to CATA T13 and on-wards (First LFR Catchup 378 gear). So much catchup gear that professions are almost useless, normal/heroic/mythic dungeons are the biggest waste of time, highmaul/brf is completely redundant, world content is garbage (Seriously, 700 ilvl blue pvp gear).

That's what people are talking about. Right now if you are a casual in WoW, you have the worst experience imo. It's literally world of catchup and zergcraft. Casuals don't raid Mythic, but they still get free 700ilvl, all this does is make all content before HFC Heroic completely redundant in terms of reward, and a zergfest due to overgearing.

Therefore, nobody has anything to do because its' either 1) redundant or 2) a boring zergfest

First fallacy.
"Professions mattered back then"
Depends on what professions you had, and what content you did. Profession perks that gave you additional stats was a bad idea, because to the end of their life, if you weren't BS/Engi, you were doing it wrong. Before that, you got maybe 1 item that was maybe as good as raid gear, save the ridiculousness of frozen shadowweave. So you were basically forced into very specific profession setups, or you were doing it way wrong. That was *totally* fun. 2 specific professions gave you worthwhile bonuses in TBC. 2. BS, Tailoring. Engineering item, LW item got replaced by T5 (there were sunwell patterns that 90% of the playerbase would never see), Alchemy had nothing, gathering professions had nothing.

Second fallacy.
"you had to experience all the raids in tbc"
Rofl. Most "casuals" in tbc did kara and maybe 4 heroics or badges, and made love to G'eras in shattrath. Worse yet when the sunwell vendor opened. Then it went to Kara, MgT, Slave pens, Mechanar and Sethekk halls mostly. Most "casuals" didn't raid in TBC. Why wipe on Kael'Thas for hours when you could get vastly superior gear from a vendor?

Third fallacy.
"so much catchup gear professions were worthless, first LFR catchup gear in cata"
Apart from the fiasco that was frozen shadowweave and BS crafted weapons, professions were never strong, sorry. Then when WoTLK added +stat perks to professions, again, people that cared about their progression essentially could not have a gathering profession. That being said, catchup gear has always existed in some form. You could argue that the pvp rank removal was catchup gear at the end of vanilla. Badge vendor in TBC. Heroics always gave you tokens that you could redeem for the raid gear in Wotlk (it just went full retard with ICC patch, allowing people to get 232+ gear in every slot). In cata, the previous tier of raid gear was made available for justice every time a new raid was released.

The fourth one is a matter of opinion, and isn't a downright lie. 700 ilvl pvp gear and tanaan gear are there so pople can get into the content immediately. As much as people clamor and crave for linear progression, noone really wants to have to do heroics for 2+ months and raid for 3+ months on a new character to catch up with their buddies. Linear progression might have worked back then, but it sure as hell won't work now.

Therefore, nobody has anything to do because its' either 1) redundant or 2) a boring zergfest

It was redundant in TBC, didn't stop anyone
It was redundant in WoTLK
It was redundant in Cata, too.
What's the difference now?

[Marakesh]

The problem is if they hire the nostalrius admins or even just ask them to visit Blizzard HQ they actually dont protect their IP but encourage other copyright violations in favor of positive reactions from blizzard.

I could even write a "howto" for gaining blizzards attention:

1.) setup a pirated version of a world of warcraft realm
2.) ask some wannabe-"players right activist" as like kern to support your case and collect some thousand votes
3.) get invited to blizzard entertainment and become their mates
4.) get hired by blizzard to run your special version of WoW on a server you admin

Profit!

The thing is, you don't want to go completely the other way and be a stone wall. Look at the press coverage and twitch / youtube reactions before anyone had time to jump on board a hype train. It was rolling within the first weekend of the announced shut down. How many other pirate servers or crusades about mmo game changes will get that?

Mostly, its about people wanting something they have come to expect from Blizzard - to still be able to play the older games they bought. At this low point in subs there's also the problem with the direction the game has gone. When I first heard about legacy servers my first reaction was - I'd rather see them return to the style of the older mmo's. After losing faith that was ever going to happen I figured legacy servers might push the issue. Especially, after replaying vanilla and relearning how it was and why that game worked so well. And then Blizz's first response was pristine servers. I didn't buy into what little they were offering there, but you can't deny it is making them rethink current game design, and so its good for the live game as well.

[Baleful]

There is no other private server like Nostalrius, nor has there ever been so stop drawing ridiculous conclusions to fit your narrative. Thanks

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
<----SNIPPED----->

Infracted: Do not discuss other pirate servers by name {MoanaLisa}

[Deleted]

Lot of ppl are saying here that nost was only 150k ppl, wht make something for so little. Nostalrius was going up like a rocket in population. More and more ppl joined, wich is one of the reasons it was taken down. There are many many privatr servers that have been up for more than nostalrius was but have never gained so much ppl so fast.
Lets remember that when wow came out it didnt have millions of players at the start.
Im sure an official vanilla server would be a big hit. I think a pristine server would also be a very good choice. Would get me back for sure

[Deleted]

First fallacy.
"Professions mattered back then"
Depends on what professions you had, and what content you did. Profession perks that gave you additional stats was a bad idea, because to the end of their life, if you weren't BS/Engi, you were doing it wrong. Before that, you got maybe 1 item that was maybe as good as raid gear, save the ridiculousness of frozen shadowweave. So you were basically forced into very specific profession setups, or you were doing it way wrong. That was *totally* fun. 2 specific professions gave you worthwhile bonuses in TBC. 2. BS, Tailoring. Engineering item, LW item got replaced by T5 (there were sunwell patterns that 90% of the playerbase would never see), Alchemy had nothing, gathering professions had nothing.

Second fallacy.
"you had to experience all the raids in tbc"
Rofl. Most "casuals" in tbc did kara and maybe 4 heroics or badges, and made love to G'eras in shattrath. Worse yet when the sunwell vendor opened. Then it went to Kara, MgT, Slave pens, Mechanar and Sethekk halls mostly. Most "casuals" didn't raid in TBC. Why wipe on Kael'Thas for hours when you could get vastly superior gear from a vendor?

Third fallacy.
"so much catchup gear professions were worthless, first LFR catchup gear in cata"
Apart from the fiasco that was frozen shadowweave and BS crafted weapons, professions were never strong, sorry. Then when WoTLK added +stat perks to professions, again, people that cared about their progression essentially could not have a gathering profession. That being said, catchup gear has always existed in some form. You could argue that the pvp rank removal was catchup gear at the end of vanilla. Badge vendor in TBC. Heroics always gave you tokens that you could redeem for the raid gear in Wotlk (it just went full retard with ICC patch, allowing people to get 232+ gear in every slot). In cata, the previous tier of raid gear was made available for justice every time a new raid was released.

The fourth one is a matter of opinion, and isn't a downright lie. 700 ilvl pvp gear and tanaan gear are there so pople can get into the content immediately. As much as people clamor and crave for linear progression, noone really wants to have to do heroics for 2+ months and raid for 3+ months on a new character to catch up with their buddies. Linear progression might have worked back then, but it sure as hell won't work now.


It was redundant in TBC, didn't stop anyone
It was redundant in WoTLK
It was redundant in Cata, too.
What's the difference now?

"Second Fallacy" (god you sound like a pretentious moron btw) In short, you think people are entitled to see the content because they purchased the game? But why? I feel like you are the kind of player who would play CS and complaint that the people you play against would destroy you because you were a new player.
Back in the day getting to see the content was part of the reward, it made the game exciting and when you killed a boss you acturally killed a boss and not a difficulty. One major reason why people like older content is the entry raid system, which had easy raids and hard raids so people would be inspired to improve.
Not to mention that doing multiple difficulties of the same boss detracts from the experience and makes it very repetitive.

[Almaric]

SJW? There i fixed it.

No, just stop being a dickhead.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Baleful;40105204]HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Yeah with shitty scripts and no player base? Don't conflate those the fit a narrative.

[Deleted]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
-----------------

You obviously sid not play on private servers. Yes those are vanilla servers just like nostalrius but they are still nothing alike

[Deleted]

Triggered?

[Durandro]

Honestly I'm sat on the fence about the issue, but Blizzard's responce and some of the defenses of their responce has me quite vexed.

The whole 'can't recreate Vanilla servers' argument is debunked since amateurs with few resources have managed it. Users even say the stablity and customer service is about on par with official servers too, so that argument is out of the window.

The whole 'only a few thousand players want it' argument is also debunked. Even if we assume only 10,000 people used that server, that's a lot of people who were willing to do something technically illegal and relatively complicated to set up to access something that isn't easily available. If there were official servers offering the same service I imagine the numbers would double at the very least.

The whole 'defending intellectual property' argument is valid. But you can defend something without smashing it with a sledgehammer. Blizzard should have reached out to these people and talked about making their servers a bit more official, if only in name only.

And then the 'pristine realm' idea. Its horrible. Quite frankly its just terrible. Because we can already have that experience if we opt out of using heirlooms or joining a guild or not using LFR. It adds nothing new but splits the playerbase. Why would Blizzard spend resources on such an idea when they are unwilling to spend it on what people actually ask for?

Ultimately the responce to the situation has been all wrong. Blizzard could easily come out of this looking like the Golden Gods we all saw them as not even that long ago. Instead they come out of it looking confused and out of touch with the community. Which is a massive shame.

[Viikkis]

Creating classic servers is a bad idea. The content is done, people are finished with it, so you might get a spike in the first few months but after that what's the point?

There's no point, there's nothing new to experience, nothing new to achieved. It's just a rehash of content that is completely exhausted. Finished.

And why on Earth is Blizzard paying attention to Mark Kern, who is a failed developer, an anti-feminist gamergater, and a serial liar? Is he a Trump supporter now?

Some people like to experience stuff again and some players want to experience stuff that they never had chance to do. The way I see this could work is progressively re-releasing expansions Vanilla -> TBC -> Wotlk at least. That way people don't feel like they're wasting time because they can progress with their characters. Also Blizzard needs to tune some classes it's not fun to stick with 2.4.3 classes for 2 years etc.

[kary]

"Second Fallacy" (god you sound like a pretentious moron btw) In short, you think people are entitled to see the content because they purchased the game? But why? I feel like you are the kind of player who would play CS and complaint that the people you play against would destroy you because you were a new player.
Back in the day getting to see the content was part of the reward, it made the game exciting and when you killed a boss you acturally killed a boss and not a difficulty. One major reason why people like older content is the entry raid system, which had easy raids and hard raids so people would be inspired to improve.
Not to mention that doing multiple difficulties of the same boss detracts from the experience and makes it very repetitive.

No, I don't. I do not think people are entitled to see all the content, but I'm 100% tired of the whines of "we can't clear x raid before y raid comes out" and "we pay too, we should see the content"
Multiple difficulties are a compromise. I'm not entitled enough to say that no one but the hardcore should see all the content, try as I might. I like hard, gated content. I liked clearing black temple when most people on my server couldn't get to Kael'Thas to get their 2nd vial.
But do I think the game should go back to that? Can't say. The pick-up aspect has it's pros and cons, just like rigid walls have their pros and cons.

I'll put it like this. If raids had attunements and needed you to finish the final boss before you could dream to see the next raid, it wouldn't change the way I play/rate I consume the content. But it will affect others. I'm sadly not that selfish

[dd614]

You obviously sid not play on private servers. Yes those are vanilla servers just like nostalrius but they are still nothing alike

Kronos had scripts comparable or better to Nostalrius. Nostalrius succeeded because they released their server first and it was pretty good, so people stayed there.

[Duronos]

Yeah with shitty scripts and no player base? Don't conflate those the fit a narrative.

Can confirm, what my friend and I noticed the instant we played on Nostalrius was the scripting. It's what set Nost above the others from early on and it's completely why it got so huge and the others didn't nearly get as big. There were a few bugs in the beginning like every server release but the speed the fixed them in was more than I'd ever asked for, it was nearly if not Blizzard level of quickness.

I did like the bug where the hunter pet would never stop chasing the enemy though... That was a cool little bug on Nostalrius before it was fixed at the beginning.

- - - Updated - - -

Kronos had scripts comparable or better to Nostalrius. Nostalrius succeeded because they released their server first and it was pretty good, so people stayed there.

Kronos was alright, the problem was it wasn't fully blizzlike.

[megasus]

The whole 'can't recreate Vanilla servers' argument is debunked since amateurs with few resources have managed it. Users even say the stablity and customer service is about on par with official servers too, so that argument is out of the window.

Hundreds of developers working on vanilla emulators for more than 10 years != amateurs with few resources

[Deleted]

Probably the other legacy realm owners also should ask blizard to invite them to their HQ?

Well, and to add WotLK, tbc, MoP and cataclysm - realms in response. And to allow those other legacy realm admins to admin them.

[dd614]

No, I don't. I do not think people are entitled to see all the content, but I'm 100% tired of the whines of "we can't clear x raid before y raid comes out" and "we pay too, we should see the content"
Multiple difficulties are a compromise. I'm not entitled enough to say that no one but the hardcore should see all the content, try as I might. I like hard, gated content. I liked clearing black temple when most people on my server couldn't get to Kael'Thas to get their 2nd vial.
But do I think the game should go back to that? Can't say. The pick-up aspect has it's pros and cons, just like rigid walls have their pros and cons.

I was one of those people back then. I never felt entitled to getting into Black Temple as well, as my guild was pretty average and we were struggling hard to clear SSC/TK. Back when the top guild on the server was working on Kael, our guild finally got 25 together and killed Gruul. We had top several people from that guild come on our vent when they heard it and legitimately congratulated us for doing so. It made us want to work harder.

[Donair]

Again pulling numbers out of your ass? There is no evidence that suggests that adding legacy servers would only add 150k subscribers
There is also no evidence that suggest that World of Warcraft even has 5 million subscribers at this point.
So again you are trying shed light on the things that fulfill your narrative, i've seen you do this so many times and called you out on it that it's gotten pathetic at this point.
Stop using "factual evidence" when you only care to show one side of the issue.

Doesn't matter. That was the last reported number so now until the end of time WoW will forever have 5 million subscribed players officially. Any argument brought up over metrics or questions about game interest will be met with the same copy/pasta'd 5 million number by the Blizz drones.