TTIP secret negotiation papers revealed

[Graeham]

It was bad news from the start...though that was pretty obvious for a lot of people. It's very telling that there's very little about this in the mainstream media. I have my doubts that many politicians will bring it up either - because most are in the pockets of the big businesses that stand to profit from this sort of thing. Unfortunately until there is a genuine case of accountability for treacherous/dubious politicians and CEO's very little is going to change.

[Grishnaar]

Profit and greed above all else.

That will be the downfall of human race, imho.

[Fasc]

No, I don't. You want to sell that stuff - fine. Prove to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that the quality of the food is the same as non-modified food, and that there are no long term health risks whatsoever. YOU want to sell the product, not me. Convince me. Just because nobody has found anything yet doesn't mean it's not there. If there are concers that there might be longterm complications, thats more then enough to tell them to fuck off.

Given this fear is completely based upon conjecture, junk science, and outright lies I find it ridiculous I need to prove to you why your fears are completely unfounded. Let's not go about trying to prove a negative and how about you tell me why GMO is so bad? Be sure to differentiate between cross-breeding and be sure to note the actual biochemistry involved if any particular compounds are of interest.

"Just because no one has found anything..." No. That's not informed skepticism. That is a desperate stamping of your feet to say "NO NO GMO BAD NO NO NO" that goes right along with that study of people who when surveyed about DNA labeling on food, a large number felt strongly that foods should be labeled appropriately concerning DNA.

GMO hysterics are on par with DHMO hysterics and sadly it is impossible to tell the difference sometimes.

[Skulltaker]

Given this fear is completely based upon conjecture, junk science, and outright lies I find it ridiculous I need to prove to you why your fears are completely unfounded. Let's not go about trying to prove a negative and how about you tell me why GMO is so bad? Be sure to differentiate between cross-breeding and be sure to note the actual biochemistry involved if any particular compounds are of interest.

"Just because no one has found anything..." No. That's not informed skepticism. That is a desperate stamping of your feet to say "NO NO GMO BAD NO NO NO" that goes right along with that study of people who when surveyed about DNA labeling on food, a large number felt strongly that foods should be labeled appropriately concerning DNA.

GMO hysterics are on par with DHMO hysterics and sadly it is impossible to tell the difference sometimes.

Sorry, this just isn't how it works. You want to sell the stuff, you prove that it is safe. If the german office for fair trade has it's issues with it that's reason enough to burn it all, along with the people promoting it.

GMO's are also by far not he biggest problem people here have with TTIP. Just saying.

[Independent voter]

Not a word of this in the US press, btw.

[Deleted]

Not a word of this in the US press, btw.

While the Süddeutsche Zeitung is quite a big magazine covering this, in the other parts of the German, Austrian and Italian media there's also more or less nothing about it. Generally, except short 15-second parts in the newsflash, TTIP was rarely covered here in the big media channels. And that didn't really cover any information about the contract, but the information that people are protesting it. Funnily enough, the longest and most in-depth coverage of TTIP I've seen or read here was in a satire magazine.

@ topic: It was already expected, now it's just confirmed.

[Fasc]

Sorry, this just isn't how it works. You want to sell the stuff, you prove that it is safe. If the german office for fair trade has it's issues with it that's reason enough to burn it all, along with the people promoting it.

GMO's are also by far not he biggest problem people here have with TTIP. Just saying.

The problem with proving a negative is that it is impossible to do so. No amount of tests revealing no issues will actually assuage fears that were grounded in disinformation (or no information at all). If you can't bring evidence to bear, then the consumer fears are a load of crap, but no amount of official "All clear" will actually dismiss them since people already think Monsanto, "Big Pharma," and the the government lie to them regularly anyway.

No tests have shown problems with GMO foods as far as consumption is concerned. At BEST you could argue the crop competition and diversity of choice but harmful to eat? Nothing indicates such. It isn't a falsifiable claim whatsoever.

So no, that IS how it works. GMO is literally no different from cross breeding so please, enlighten us as to why such things are specifically a problem while consumers continue to purchase bright orange 'baby' carrots without a second glance.

Also I don't care if TTIP only has a bit of GMO stuff in it, the GMO hysterics are all I'm really concerned about because it isn't even healthy skepticism, it is Food Babe levels of stupidity.

[Acidbaron]

While the Süddeutsche Zeitung is quite a big magazine covering this, in the other parts of the German, Austrian and Italian media there's also more or less nothing about it. Generally, except short 15-second parts in the newsflash, TTIP was rarely covered here in the big media channels. And that didn't really cover any information about the contract, but the information that people are protesting it. Funnily enough, the longest and most in-depth coverage of TTIP I've seen or read here was in a satire magazine.

@ topic: It was already expected, now it's just confirmed.

It has been reported that the Dutch branch of Greenpeace leaked the documents, it was mentioned here on national news today the rest will be slow to catch up. Expect it to become a thing later on.

Anyhow the US is unhappy about the leak since they wanted to keep their position confident and not out in public. EU commissioner for trade has also stated that these are merely the position sides are taking in and not the final result, stressing the fact that EU norms won't be changed if the stances are too far apart their simply will be no agreement and the main negotiator on EU side points out the EU will not budge on GM crops.

As expected a lot of noise around nothing but to be expected as this is politics as usual.

[Deleted]

ITT: many people who lack an understanding of GMO foods.

It also lowers slaughterhouse standards. So excuse us if we do not want to bleach meat like your slaughterhouses do to make it safe for consumption. Not even going to go into how it lowers livestock keeping standards.

US beef is banned for a very good reason here.

[Fasc]

It also lowers slaughterhouse standards. So excuse us if we do not want to bleach meat like your slaughterhouses do to make it safe for consumption. Not even going to go into how it lowers livestock keeping standards.

US beef is banned for a very good reason here.

I love how bleach is treated with such disdain while people sip their water that's been treated with the same... /snicker

[Deleted]

I love how bleach is treated with such disdain while people sip their water that's been treated with the same... /snicker

You missed the point. American slaughterhouses are so un-hygenic that it is needed in the US to make it safe. While European slaughterhouses do not need to due to higher standards.

[Deleted]

I love how bleach is treated with such disdain while people sip their water that's been treated with the same... /snicker

If people here don't want that kind of stuff - for whatever reason - they don't want it. It's really that simple.
Call it "hysteria" as much as you want.

I agree with a lot of the others here: Those companies can get lost.

[Krille]

I love how bleach is treated with such disdain while people sip their water that's been treated with the same... /snicker

I don't know about the rest but our drinkwater is treated with extremely small doses of chlorine to prevent bacteria from developing. So no, we certainly don't have bleach in our water.

It's the same with antibiotics, you guys hand it out like it's candy, i know it's the same in Australia. "It's not dangerous", until you can't treat anything with it anymore. Until you get so fucking fat you become a liability to society (on GMO, corn syrup and what not that you spray all over your food).

This is not about we being better at foodz than you. It's us being against companies that sell this kind of shit to have some kind of leverage in the EU market. Don't need it, don't want it. It's literally just a way for big corporations and politicians to make more money.

[Anon56]

It's not only about GMO's food. You don't sign a trade agreement with the first superpower when you're not a superpower yourself. Given the aggressiveness of US companies, EU companies will be eaten raw. You don't need to be an intellectual to see this coming miles away.

This TTIP is bad for the EU, it's bad for it's consumers, it's companies and it's workers.

[Forogil]

Prove to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that the quality of the food is the same as non-modified food, and that there are no long term health risks whatsoever. YOU want to sell the product, not me. Convince me. Just because nobody has found anything yet doesn't mean it's not there. If there are concers that there might be longterm complications, thats more then enough to tell them to fuck off.

Virtually no-one is not eating non-modified food; they are eating food that has been modified in a number of ways during recent times (and those modifications are clearly genetic). There are also already GMO foods allowed in EU (and a GMO food produced in the EU), however, at the moment primarily used as animal feed (except for soy sauce).

That the normal food is modified is not entirely unproblematic - e.g. increased sugar contents might cause problems for humans, as well as decreased biodiversity risking problems. (And even non-modified food might be problematic, unless the problems with drinking cow-milk and eating wheat are linked to the pre-GMO modifications.)

- - - Updated - - -

It has been reported that the Dutch branch of Greenpeace leaked the documents, it was mentioned here on national news today the rest will be slow to catch up. Expect it to become a thing later on.

That's not the entire story - someone leaked the documents to Greenpeace for a reason.

[breadisfunny]

The problem with proving a negative is that it is impossible to do so. No amount of tests revealing no issues will actually assuage fears that were grounded in disinformation (or no information at all). If you can't bring evidence to bear, then the consumer fears are a load of crap, but no amount of official "All clear" will actually dismiss them since people already think Monsanto, "Big Pharma," and the the government lie to them regularly anyway.

No tests have shown problems with GMO foods as far as consumption is concerned. At BEST you could argue the crop competition and diversity of choice but harmful to eat? Nothing indicates such. It isn't a falsifiable claim whatsoever.

So no, that IS how it works. GMO is literally no different from cross breeding so please, enlighten us as to why such things are specifically a problem while consumers continue to purchase bright orange 'baby' carrots without a second glance.

Also I don't care if TTIP only has a bit of GMO stuff in it, the GMO hysterics are all I'm really concerned about because it isn't even healthy skepticism, it is Food Babe levels of stupidity.

maybe thats because governments routinely lie to their people in order to cover up scandals and whatnot.

[JohnBrown1917]

Funny how only Americans are defending this.

[Elim Garak]

Funny how only Americans are defending this.

Nothing funny about that. The people the government.

[Slant]

Not a word of this in the US press, btw.

Doesn't surprise me, tbh. US media really doesn't care much what anyone outside the US thinks. It has to be dramatic with lots of deaths or else the latest pointless Tweet by Kim Kardashian gets more media coverage.

[breadisfunny]

Doesn't surprise me, tbh. US media really doesn't care much what anyone outside the US thinks. It has to be dramatic with lots of deaths or else the latest pointless Tweet by Kim Kardashian gets more media coverage.

also if it conflicts with their corporate shareholders interests it doesn't get covered or gets very minimal coverage.