Is the US Economy on the Decline?

[Skroe]

Oh I absolutely agree, I just have right-winger/Bernie-Bro friends who are spouting the doom and gloom from this.

Both sides are hoping for an economic disaster to legitimize their extremist views because they lack patriotism.

Being validated is more important to those people than the lives that would be damaged by a recession.

[Manabomb]

i have 10$ on 2017. IT'S THE YEAR OF AWESOME baby.

2020 will obviously mark the year where all the returns hit just right and everyone gets a big payout!*






*By everyone, we mean investment moguls and inheritance billionares.

[Daelak]

Both sides are hoping for an economic disaster to legitimize their extremist views because they lack patriotism.

Being validated is more important to those people than the lives that would be damaged by a recession.

I don't think Bernie Sanders wants an economic disaster, he's more along the lines of a economic disaster is slowly occurring because of wealth accretion.

[Skroe]

President Obama will be the first president in history that never had a years GDP growth over 3%. he will be lucky to average a 1.55% GDP growth rate.
he will go down in history as the worst president ever when it comes to the economy

But he has had 80+ months of economic expansion while the rest of the world has convulsed.

His economic record is pretty rock solid.

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I don't think Bernie Sanders wants an economic disaster, he's more along the lines of a economic disaster is slowly occurring because of wealth accretion.

Bernie Sanders? No he doesn't want one.

His supporters though? Some of them are fine. Some of them are absolutely nuts.

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2020 will obviously mark the year where all the returns hit just right and everyone gets a big payout!*






*By everyone, we mean investment moguls and inheritance billionares.

If you're not investing it's your own damn fault.

[Theodarzna]

^ This.

It all goes back to velocity of money. Consumption is down because the 99% don't have money with which to consume. Without consumers, a consumption-based economy doesn't function. A decrease in jobs is just a small and very lagging indicator of the much bigger problem - which is wealth inequality.

If nobody can afford new cars, then Detroit doesn't have anything to manufacture, and every dealership in the country doesn't need so many employees, etc. You can try to demand Detroit to keep their employees hired, by subsidizing the industry to pay for their employment with taxpayer money, but this is a goofy and short-term (or should be short-term!) solution - what is needed is the 'pull' of consumption.

Without that, you're just pushing rope.

I would also point out that the rapid growth of insecure temporary jobs and uncertain career paths as well as sporadic sources of income have compounded all of the above. Its hard to plan say the next year when every month you need to find a new job, or to even plan to have kids, buy a house ect if your source of income is not in a set place on at a set time.

The lack of personal security on an individual level will render the nation very weak in the long run.

[Vyxn]

because the economy is totally under his control.

so now the economy isn't under the president control as you blamed Bush for how many years?
funny how that all of a sudden changes

[petej0]

If you're not investing it's your own damn fault.

You mean investing in those greedy companies that value profits over paying their employees livable wages all so they look better to their investors?

[Vyxn]

But he has had 80+ months of economic expansion while the rest of the world has convulsed.

His economic record is pretty rock solid.

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Bernie Sanders? No he doesn't want one.

His supporters though? Some of them are fine. Some of them are absolutely nuts.

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If you're not investing it's your own damn fault.

and like a world wide recession never happened under any other president and they managed to have GDP growth over 3%

[Underverse]

President Obama will be the first president in history that never had a years GDP growth over 3%. he will be lucky to average a 1.55% GDP growth rate.
he will go down in history as the worst president ever when it comes to the economy

Lol. You really hate Obama, don't you?

Anyways, GDP growth rate slows down the more developed a country becomes. This isn't surprising in the slightest, and isn't grounds for making the judgement of 'worst economic president in history'.

[breadisfunny]

so now the economy isn't under the president control as you blamed Bush for how many years?
funny how that all of a sudden changes

bush instituted a whole slew of really terrible policies that made a bad situation worse.

[BuckSparkles]

because the economy is totally under his control.

Er...wait....

If Obama makes a mistake, the economy isn't under his control,

Yet I think I have seen you equate bush to the recession?

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so now the economy isn't under the president control as you blamed Bush for how many years?
funny how that all of a sudden changes

I know, right?

[Skroe]

You mean investing in those greedy companies that value profits over paying their employees livable wages all so they look better to their investors?

Tell me how those principles feel when you're one of the retired poor.

The investor class should be synonymous with the middle class, but it does involve _individual_ empowerment, and to be frank, most people barely have the basic competence to pay their bills on time. So I understand making them synonymous is kind of a stretch.

In the end, most people don't know wtf to do with their money. The rich get richer because they don't really spend their money. They use it to make more money. And I've seen it: poor people get money, and they blow it on crap. It's a psychological thing.

But go ahead. Pontificate about corporate greed. For all the good it will do you when you're 80 years old eating Ramen.

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and like a world wide recession never happened under any other president and they managed to have GDP growth over 3%

Not like the 2007-2011 Financial Crisis. Your options are Herbert Hoover/FDR, the latter of which required World War II to get the country out of a depression, and Barack Obama.

The Great Recession is the biggest economic catastrophe in 80 years.

Oh and by the way, Obama inherited it. It started when Bush was President, but the roots go back 20 years before that.

[petej0]

Tell me how those principles feel when you're one of the retired poor.

The investor class should be synonymous with the middle class, but it does involve _individual_ empowerment, and to be frank, most people barely have the basic competence to pay their bills on time. So I understand making them synonymous is kind of a stretch.

In the end, most people don't know wtf to do with their money. The rich get richer because they don't really spend their money. They use it to make more money. And I've seen it: poor people get money, and they blow it on crap. It's a psychological thing.

But go ahead. Pontificate about corporate greed. For all the good it will do you when you're 80 years old eating Ramen.

I am just pointing out the silliness of those who claim corporations are greedy, yet have investment portfolios full of them.

[Vyxn]

bush instituted a whole slew of really terrible policies that made a bad situation worse.

but of coarse none of Obama policies has a dam thing to do with a stagnant economy that hasn't had a yearly GDP growth over 3%

[Deleted]

No worries, Tuck Frump will make the American economy great again.

[Underverse]

I am just pointing out the silliness of those who claim corporations are greedy, yet have investment portfolios full of them.

You can play the game and hate the game at the same time. The way we've set our system up maximizes profit on greed. It doesn't have to be like that; but why live in rags while it is?

Money can facilitate change, anyway.

[Skroe]

I am just pointing out the silliness of those who claim corporations are greedy, yet have investment portfolios full of them.

Well then make that clearer, and if I misfired, I apologize. But in any event, everyone should be an investor. Everyone.

[breadisfunny]

but of coarse none of Obama policies has a dam thing to do with a stagnant economy that hasn't had a yearly GDP growth over 3%

and how exactly do you propose he combat that?

[Theodarzna]

so now the economy isn't under the president control as you blamed Bush for how many years?
funny how that all of a sudden changes

Presidents really can only set the stage for the next president. Or make things worse. In the long run the economic fortunes of a Nation will ebb and flow in time scales typically longer than any presidency or even a generation IMHO.

Economic power and supremacy was never going to last forever, so Obama and Bush are not necessarily to blame in a grand scheme of things sort of way. The conditions that create our problems are more or less the quiet culmination of things that one would need supernatural divination powers to have necessarily foreseen the negative outcomes on.

The experiment with capitalism is just that, an experiment, the mechanics of it and its long term impacts are not fully understood to this day.

[Skroe]

but of coarse none of Obama policies has a dam thing to do with a stagnant economy that hasn't had a yearly GDP growth over 3%

Considering the most lingering effect from the financial crisis was a protracted asset liquidity crisis, hardly a surprise. When this has happened before, as part of far less severe financial crisies, it's taken a decade and a half to repair the damage. Untangling the knot of what assets are worth what they are said to be worth, and which ones are not, is a torturous process that acts as a huge drag on growth.

The fundamental factor is that nobody is sure that everybody else is telling the truth about what their books look like. That crisis of faith can't be repaired with legislation. It takes confidence building over many, many years. Laws can help by putting up scaffolding, but it's ultimately up to Bank A to believe Company B's books are honest enough to put money into.