(Spoilers) Anyone play the Horde Broken Shore yet?

[Drewbacca]

So this apparently opened up today. Any word on it yet? I'm convinced the Horde didn't truly abandon Varian and it is likely a misunderstanding. However, I may be giving Sylvanas too much credit.

Dang it! Can someone please fix the typo in the title?

[Deleted]

I'm convinced the Horde didn't truly abandon Varian and it is likely a misunderstanding.

Plz let her abandon that stupid king so we can get back to war after the Legion is pushed back.
Faction team up is stupid in a game like warcraft and thats the end of it.

[SoulSoBreezy]

So this apparently opened up today. Any word on it yet? I'm convinced the Horde didn't truly abandon Varian and it is likely a misunderstanding. However, I may be giving Sylvanas too much credit.

Dang it! Can someone please fix the typo in the title?

We still don't know the super specifics, but basically during the Horde campaign you're supposed to flank the Legion but they end up running into *another* endless army.
We can pretty much look down a ledge and watch the Alliance get wrecked, but they can't really see us.

[Zharikov]

We only see the Alliance cinematics or placeholder cinematics currently, but basically, we run onto a ledge above but are ambushed by an endless Legion army. We have to hold out until the Alliance get the "tons of leader demons" teleport in scene, where they tell you its hopeless, then we get a cutscene and are portaled back to Bladefist Bay.

From there, we meet Eitrigg, who says its a wonder _any_ Horde troops survived at all, and basically says if not for Sylvanas we'd ALL be dead.

Presumably, from the varying clues we get, we can assume that while the Alliance are getting wrecked by the leader army, we're getting wrecked by another endless army, and Syvlanas basically orders a retreat instead of staying to fight to the death, which is what surely would have happened, to let us live to fight another die.

[rda]

We only see the Alliance cinematics or placeholder cinematics currently, but basically, we run onto a ledge above but are ambushed by an endless Legion army. We have to hold out until the Alliance get the "tons of leader demons" teleport in scene, where they tell you its hopeless, then we get a cutscene and are portaled back to Bladefist Bay.

From there, we meet Eitrigg, who says its a wonder _any_ Horde troops survived at all, and basically says if not for Sylvanas we'd ALL be dead.

Presumably, from the varying clues we get, we can assume that while the Alliance are getting wrecked by the leader army, we're getting wrecked by another endless army, and Syvlanas basically orders a retreat instead of staying to fight to the death, which is what surely would have happened, to let us live to fight another die.

Sum total, so far the Horde side of the landing is exactly like it was thought it was going to be - no real differences from what we could muster from the Alliance version. The Horde are cowards and flee to save their asses leaving the Alliance to die.

Previous thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ents-of-Legion

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Let's see what the ending is going to be, although I doubt it will contain any surprises.

[DercMerc]

Sum total, so far the Horde side of the landing is exactly like it was thought it was going to be - no real differences from what we could muster from the Alliance version. The Horde are cowards and flee to save their asses leaving the Alliance to die.

Previous thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ents-of-Legion

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Let's see what the ending is going to be, although I doubt it will contain any surprises.

I mean, it is flat out said that the Horde forces would've been wiped out had they not retreated, which would probably mean the doom of the Horde and eventually Azeroth to the Legion.

So, y'know. You're welcome.

[rda]

I mean, it is flat out said that the Horde forces would've been wiped out had they not retreated, which would probably mean the doom of the Horde and eventually Azeroth to the Legion.

So, y'know. You're welcome.

It changes nothing. Read the thread that I linked.

No shit they would've been wiped out if they didn't retreat. The Alliance were in the same position. The Alliance stayed, the Horde fled. Blood and Honor, I guess.

Your "probably" is laughable, by the way. This was a relatively small force. And again, the Alliance were in the same position, they *were* wiped out and somehow this doesn't mean "doom of the Alliance and eventually Azeroth to the Legion". Wild exaggerations like your "probably" are just another thing cowards say.

[Zharikov]

I mean, at the least, you, the player character, and Jaina survive as Alliance, so you kind of flee too. As the final cinematics aren't in, we don't know the exact specifics, so unless a N'aaru comes in and forcibly removes you from the Isle, presumably you flee as Alliance at the end too.

[rda]

I mean, at the least, you, the player character, and Jaina survive as Alliance, so you kind of flee too. As the final cinematics aren't in, we don't know the exact specifics, so unless a N'aaru comes in and forcibly removes you from the Isle, presumably you flee as Alliance at the end too.

Who commanded a retreat first? Without noticing an ally, no less. Those guys fled. There's no complexity here.

[bmjclark]

The alliance fled too, they just waited till varian died to flee

[DercMerc]

It changes nothing. Read the thread that I linked.

No shit they would've been wiped out if they didn't retreat. The Alliance were in the same position. The Alliance stayed, the Horde fled. Blood and Honor, I guess.

Your "probably" is laughable, by the way. This was a relatively small force. And again, the Alliance were in the same position, they *were* wiped out and somehow this doesn't mean "doom of the Alliance and eventually Azeroth to the Legion". Wild exaggerations like your "probably" are just another thing cowards say.

Oh I see.

You're that kind of Alliance player. Whelp, I guess that shows exactly where this conversation is going.

[rda]

The alliance fled too, they just waited till varian died to flee

If you and I go into a fight together, then you flee and I get beaten but somehow manage to "flee" after as well, we are kind of in a different position. You are a coward because you fled leaving me alone, and I am not a coward, I stayed my ground, I didn't betray your trust in me in any way. I just got lucky I survived.

[Zharikov]

The alliance fled too, they just waited till varian died to flee

Nah man, only the Horde can be cowards. Alliance are honorable and pure and without fail. Anyway, other guy, have fun shouting about the Horde being cowards I guess, I don't really feel like arguing with someone that clearly has way too strong feelings about how much they hate one faction.

Re-iterating what the guy who made the actual topic was asking, we don't really have much exact detail yet because the cinematics aren't in, but its made clear everyone was being overwhelmed and would have died if they didn't pull back. Voice-files imply the retreat order is given after Vol'jin is mortally wounded, though voice-files are always subject to change. We're still unsure of when the Alliance pulls back, though presumably after Varian dies.

Though, editing to point out, throughout the entire scenario, the Horde and Alliance forces are always on separate sides of the battlefield. The Horde are honestly so high up on a ledge we can't actually do anything to help the Alliance forces out from up there, though perhaps the cinematics will show that to be just a game thing, who knows.

[nVIDIA]

Dont speak of honor coward hordes

[rda]

Nah man, only the Horde can be cowards. Alliance are honorable and pure and without fail. Anyway, other guy, have fun shouting about the Horde being cowards I guess, I don't really feel like arguing with someone that clearly has way too strong feelings about how much they hate one faction.

Re-iterating what the guy who made the actual topic was asking, we don't really have much exact detail yet because the cinematics aren't in, but its made clear everyone was being overwhelmed and would have died if they didn't pull back. Voice-files imply the retreat order is given after Vol'jin is mortally wounded, though voice-files are always subject to change. We're still unsure of when the Alliance pulls back, though presumably after Varian dies.

If you have some arguments in defense of the Horde, go ahead and present them.

This - "I don't really feel like arguing with someone who clearly bla bla bla" - is just noise, it is not an argument.

I say *why* the Horde are cowards. So far your reply to this is "we don't really know all the details". Fine, let's wait until we do know all the details, however, I doubt things will change much.

[Merixa]

Staying when it's obvious you can't win isn't always the smart choice to do. Yes the Horde seem to have retreated to fight another day. But the Alliance made their choice not to. Was there any reason for them not to? Not really outside of their own pride. After all given the situation of the legion, retreating, regrouping, and working out how to stop the endless waves is the better choice than just throwing yourselves at an unkillable enemy. After all, once you all get yourselves killed, who will be around to protect the family you left behind?

I don't think the Hordes choice was cowardly or wrong at all. Even if they had stayed, the Alliance would have still be killed. Difference is that the Horde would have been too.

What's the point?

Now as mentioned we've not seen the end cinematic or anything but I don't think the Horde hate is justified. I play Alliance myself and I'm actually disappointed our leaders decided to blindly keep charging when nothing would be gained but the death of our own people. Seeing the demons we had jsut killed come back instantly should have been a trigger in any intelligent mind that they needed to step back and work out how to stop that before mindlessly killing them.

Just my opinion.

[rda]

I don't think the Hordes choice was cowardly or wrong at all. Even if they are stayed, the Alliance would have still be killed, the online. Difference is that the Horde would ahve been too.

What's the point?

That's precisely what every deserter from a battle ever always says. "It was clear we were going to lose, I decided to save my ass in order to kill more of those guys next time, if I stayed, I'd just have died too." Then he is asked "what about your brothers in arms who stayed to fight" to which he has no answer, and the matter is quickly concluded. The answer to "So what, I should have stayed to die together with others?" is "Yes". That's how it works in a war.

There are no issues with a retreat. But it has to be a common retreat. If you "retreat" while others stay to fight, that's not a retreat, that's you fleeing.

[Zharikov]

...After all given the situation of the legion, retreating, regrouping, and working out how to stop the endless waves is the better choice than just throwing yourselves at an unlikeable enemy. ....

Pretty much this. Demons literally can't die when killed on Azeroth, their souls just go back to the Nether and can reform. Not to mention they have pretty much billions of forces to teleport in as backups.

HOWEVER, in defense of the Alliance leaders....

...we don't actually know if they tried to stay and fight or flee, outside of Genn's outrage suggesting they might have stayed?

The Alliance scenario and Horde scenario end around the same time, when the MASSIVE army of named demon leaders teleports in and approaches. We really have no idea what the Alliance decided to do after that, unless any voice-files I miss suggest otherwise.

[gcsmith]

Staying when it's obvious you can't win isn't always the smart choice to do. Yes the Horde seem to have retreated to fight another day. But the Alliance made their choice not to. Was there any reason for them not to? Not really outside of their own pride. After all given the situation of the legion, retreating, regrouping, and working out how to stop the endless waves is the better choice than just throwing yourselves at an unkillable enemy. After all, once you all get yourselves killed, who will be around to protect the family you left behind?

I don't think the Hordes choice was cowardly or wrong at all. Even if they had stayed, the Alliance would have still be killed. Difference is that the Horde would have been too.

What's the point?

Now as mentioned we've not seen the end cinematic or anything but I don't think the Horde hate is justified. I play Alliance myself and I'm actually disappointed our leaders decided to blindly keep charging when nothing would be gained but the death of our own people. Seeing the demons we had jsut killed come back instantly should have been a trigger in any intelligent mind that they needed to step back and work out how to stop that before mindlessly killing them.

Just my opinion.

So, step back and let those demon lords loose on Azeroth? Sometimes retreating is good, fleeing never is, and sometimes you can't retreat if it gives the enemy too big an inch.

[Venziir]

Plz let her abandon that stupid king so we can get back to war after the Legion is pushed back.
Faction team up is stupid in a game like warcraft and thats the end of it.

Eh, no. A constant faction bickering is stupid, when there is a constant bigger threat out there, that requires teamin up.