(Spoilers) Anyone play the Horde Broken Shore yet?

[Anoregon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_%28military%29

You need to stop calling it "cowardice". Withdrawing against unwinnable odds to fight another day is a common military practice.

naa man you gotta read some books, the only way war is fought is to keep fighting no matter how much stronger the opposing force is and win because you're the good guys and good guys can't retreat.

[Deleted]

naa man you gotta read some books, the only way war is fought is to keep fighting no matter how much stronger the opposing force is and win because you're the good guys and good guys can't retreat.

Yeah, I do read books. Good ancient military books, it's my actual job.

[Enthralled]

A few of you guys are acting like the Horde just cut out and ran when the scenario clearly shows them fighting their asses off and likely taking heavy losses besides. I just -- I just can't even.

[Deathshiro]

Can Demon Hunters also participate in the event? From Sylv's dialogue it doesn't seem like it. Can anyone on alpha check and see if on a demon hunter you can accept/do the quest?

[Ersula]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_%28military%29

You need to stop calling it "cowardice". Withdrawing against unwinnable odds to fight another day is a common military practice.

And, for like the hundredth time, the Horde & Alliance leave the broken shore at the same time. The Alliance just don't see the Horde during their final confrontation.

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Can Demon Hunters also participate in the event? From Sylv's dialogue it doesn't seem like it. Can anyone on alpha check and see if on a demon hunter you can accept/do the quest?

Canonically, Yes. It seems like Maeiv & Khadgar releasing the Illidari in order to stop Gul'dan happens at the same time as the Broken Shore attack, but the fact that Gul'dan is actually there says it happens shortly after: And Yes they can participate in the instance.

*Spoilers*
From details collected from questing, the dungeon journal & the storyboards shown at Blizzcon, this is the timeline before between WoD & Legion:
1) Archemonde sends Gul'dan to the Vault of the Wardens where he meets up with Cordana.
2) Cordana & Gul'dan take Illidan's body to Black Rook Hold, where he severs Illidan's soul from his body, allowing Sargeras to use it as his latest Avatar.
3) The Horde & Alliance forces are overrun at the Broken Shore, where Sargeras in Illidan's body appears, and kills Varian.

[rda]

And, for like the hundredth time, the Horde & Alliance leave the broken shore at the same time. The Alliance just don't see the Horde during their final confrontation.

Link a blue stating that the Horde and the Alliance leave at the same time. If all you base this on is that you think in the Horde scenario you saw the entire Alliance porting out at the end, that's not much, it could have been just part of the Alliance forces.

[Zyky]

It changes nothing. Read the thread that I linked.

No shit they would've been wiped out if they didn't retreat. The Alliance were in the same position. The Alliance stayed, the Horde fled. Blood and Honor, I guess.

Your "probably" is laughable, by the way. This was a relatively small force. And again, the Alliance were in the same position, they *were* wiped out and somehow this doesn't mean "doom of the Alliance and eventually Azeroth to the Legion". Wild exaggerations like your "probably" are just another thing cowards say.

If the Alliance stayed, all the heroes would have died, so cut the "ALLIANCE IS THE BEST" bullshit.

[Ersula]

Link a blue stating that the Horde and the Alliance leave at the same time. If all you base this on is that you think in the Horde scenario you saw the entire Alliance porting out at the end, that's not much, it could have been just part of the Alliance forces.

The scenario is cross-faction, you lepton: All players leave the broken shore at the same instant.

[rda]

The scenario is cross-faction, you lepton: All players leave the broken shore at the same instant.

You don't understand how lore works. What you see in the game is something somewhat close to what "really" happens as far as the lore is concerned. Raid bosses do not get resurrected on Wednesday, that's just a gimmick to organize gameplay. The thing you are pointing to is similar to that.

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If the Alliance stayed, all the heroes would have died, so cut the "ALLIANCE IS THE BEST" bullshit.

Where do you even get this from? What, you think both the Horde and the Alliance sent all their forces to that shore???? It's a morning of unsourced idiocy.

[Zyky]

You don't understand how lore works. What you see in the game is something somewhat close to what "really" happens as far as the lore is concerned. Raid bosses do not get resurrected on Wednesday, that's just a gimmick to organize gameplay. The thing you are pointing to is similar to that.

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Where do you even get this from? What, you think both the Horde and the Alliance sent all their forces to that shore???? It's a morning of unsourced idiocy.

All the heroes were there. All the created Heroes, Generals, LK killers, Deathwing killers. They were all there, obviously because of the lfr scenario exists and there's still a playable character after the fact. They're not saying "sorry your Gnome died on the broken shore, go roll a Horde now, the Alliance is no more." The Alliance retreated the exact same as the Horde, get over it.

[rda]

All the heroes were there. All the created Heroes, Generals, LK killers, Deathwing killers. They were all there, obviously because of the lfr scenario exists and there's still a playable character after the fact. They're not saying "sorry your Gnome died on the broken shore, go roll a Horde now, the Alliance is no more." The Alliance retreated the exact same as the Horde, get over it.

You don't understand how lore works either. The player-controlled heroes are a tiny part of the Horde / Alliance.

(I should start charging for these posts, half the time I am explaining obvious things to ignorant yet aggressive people.)

[gcsmith]

All the heroes were there. All the created Heroes, Generals, LK killers, Deathwing killers. They were all there, obviously because of the lfr scenario exists and there's still a playable character after the fact. They're not saying "sorry your Gnome died on the broken shore, go roll a Horde now, the Alliance is no more." The Alliance retreated the exact same as the Horde, get over it.

Um, nope, Anduin wasn't there, nor were malfurion or velen or even the dwarves. Alliance had very few leaders there...

[rda]

Um, nope, Anduin wasn't there, nor were malfurion or velen or even the dwarves. Alliance had very few leaders there...

He means players.

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They were not fighting together, there was no promise of backup from the horde.

How exactly do you think the Horde and the Alliance managed to come to the shore together at the same time? Because they talked about this, decided to fight the Legion together, planned the operation and carried it out. Both sides absolutely knew the other side would be there, fighting alongside them, and where they would be, they planned it. When one of the sides suddenly decided that "it is hopeless, I'd better retreat" without even notifying the other side, they betrayed their buddies.

[WyattKnight]

Link a blue stating that the Horde and the Alliance leave at the same time. If all you base this on is that you think in the Horde scenario you saw the entire Alliance porting out at the end, that's not much, it could have been just part of the Alliance forces.

Link a blue stating the the Horde and the Alliance leave at a different time. Link a blue stating that the Horde abandoned the Alliance, and as a result, are cowards. Link a blue validating anything you've said regarding the situation. See how pointless that argument is?

Anyway, you've had multiple people explain both sides of the scenario, having actually participated in both sides (unless you want a blue to confirm they actually played it,) and explained what happened in pretty convincing detail; but, despite this, all you've really offered is your opinion on a military tactic used by a faction you have a fairly strong opinion on.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, you're certainly entitled to believe that the Horde troops are cowards for retreating in the face of death - there are plenty of instances in RL history where similar decisions had to be made, and similar impassioned responses were given.

At the end of it, tho, you are simply arguing an opinion - one that you've offered very little, arguably nothing, to substantiate; given that, I'd at least stop trying to make it sound like you're arguing an irrefutable fact.

Working with what we know, and what we can glean from the actual in game scenario, it was a sound decision to retreat.

[gcsmith]

Link a blue stating the the Horde and the Alliance leave at a different time. Link a blue stating that the Horde abandoned the Alliance, and as a result, are cowards. Link a blue validating anything you've said regarding the situation. See how pointless that argument is?

Anyway, you've had multiple people explain both sides of the scenario, having actually participated in both sides (unless you want a blue to confirm they actually played it,) and explained what happened in pretty convincing detail; but, despite this, all you've really offered is your opinion on a military tactic used by a faction you have a fairly strong opinion on.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, you're certainly entitled to believe that the Horde troops are cowards for retreating in the face of death - there are plenty of instances in RL history where similar decisions had to be made, and similar impassioned responses were given.

At the end of it, tho, you are simply arguing an opinion - one that you've offered very little, arguably nothing, to substantiate; given that, I'd at least stop trying to make it sound like you're arguing an irrefutable fact.

Working with what we know, and what we can glean from the actual in game scenario, it was a sound decision to retreat.

Based on what we know, we know the alliance think the hordes retreat cost them their King. We also know the horde loses no one major in the broken shore scenario, and it's pretty obvious at this point that vol'jin faked his death (cinematics can change this though). What I expect, vol'jin gets injured and Sylvanas orders retreat, this happens during the attack on gul'dan and the demons causing the alliances flank to be overwhelmed.

We also know from the stills at blizzcon, that Gelbin came prepared. So good.

[Zyky]

You don't understand how lore works either. The player-controlled heroes are a tiny part of the Horde / Alliance.

(I should start charging for these posts, half the time I am explaining obvious things to ignorant yet aggressive people.)

a "tiny part" lmao. We were Commanders in Warlords, aka the HIGHEST Army Rank in game. We're such a tiny part, we're the people who killed all the threats to Azeroth, including but not limited to: The Lich King, Nefarian, Deathwing, The Iron Horde. Get over yourself kid. You and your self-righteous Alliance mentality is full of shit.

[DercMerc]

"POST SOURCES", cries the guy who posts literally no sources except for a link to another thread where he REEEEEs about the Horde for a few pages in a row.

God, I swear people are willing to literally make themselves delusional in order to feel overtly strongly about how one fictional faction is morally superior to another fictional faction.

[Drewbacca]

The fact that people are arguing over this so vehemently means Blizzard wrote it pretty well. You guys are having the same argument that the in game characters are having. The thing is, you're having it despite also having full knowledge of what happened to the other faction, which is something the characters don't have. This sounds awesome. As someone who plays both sides, I'm pumped.

[Enthralled]

The fact that people are arguing over this so vehemently means Blizzard wrote it pretty well. You guys are having the same argument that the in game characters are having. The thing is, you're having it despite also having full knowledge of what happened to the other faction, which is something the characters don't have. This sounds awesome. As someone who plays both sides, I'm pumped.

I have to agree. On the one hand it's frustrating to see the arguing, but on the other hand, I know you're right -- Blizzard's mission has been accomplished and this is even before the cinematics are in place!

[Deleted]

The fact that people are arguing over this so vehemently means Blizzard wrote it pretty well. You guys are having the same argument that the in game characters are having. The thing is, you're having it despite also having full knowledge of what happened to the other faction, which is something the characters don't have. This sounds awesome. As someone who plays both sides, I'm pumped.

There are always some people that will think that is badly written because it hurts his/her biased faction, Horde or Alliance, unfortunately.