Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Daffan]

Not sure how it's possible to think something like this. I guess you're part of the player base that wants gear mailed to them from the current raid every tuesday.

Are you the paladin who posts on the official forums and said that the games PVP needs dumbed down to the extreme that so "new players can have fun too"?

I agree. Wrath was the beginning of insane catchup, literally hit 80 > toC 5 man and 3.3 5 mans into ICC within 1 day.

WoD is even more insane then this and exactly why even casual player have content drought (when they haven't even beaten highmaul)

[ShiyoKozuki]

So content is doomed to be watered down faceroll so we can get in the dungeon without pressing a key?

Yep. That's why legion is keeping queueable content in the game, but putting it in the gutter and making it as unrewarding as possible.

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I agree. Wrath was the beginning of insane catchup, literally hit 80 > toC 5 man and 3.3 5 mans into ICC within 1 day.

WoD is even more insane then this and exactly why even casual player have content drought (when they haven't even beaten highmaul)

Yeah, it's like, who exactly is this game designed for?
You could work 2 jobs 60+ hours a week and run out of content in less than a month.
Is it designed for someone who plays 1 hour a month? Just...what?
FF14 had this same problem, it was a MMO designed for a player base that didn't exist, for the most extreme casuals. My friend who worked a 40 hour 9-5 job ran out of content in FF14 in less than a month.

His schedule didn't allow him to raid, so outside of raiding he had nothing to do after less than a month. Just like this game.

That is NOT healthy for a monthly sub MMO. It only took Blizzard what, 6-7 years to finally realize this?

[hulkgor]

Casualization is not a problem whatsoever in WoW.

Instant Gratification, exaggerated catch-up mechanisms, death of the sense of community in realms and the removal of any challenging content outside of raiding is, in particular the lack of decent solo content and outside world group content, are WoW's problems, in my opinion.

[Osmeric]

Not sure how it's possible to think something like this.

It follows directly from completion rates of raids in Wrath. Both Ulduar and ICC were tuned above where they should have been. GC called participation in Ulduar "tiny".

Hint: you should form opinions on matters such as this by looking at data, rather than by regurgitating your personal preferences.

I guess you're part of the player base that wants gear mailed to them from the current raid every tuesday.

Observation is not the same as advocacy, but any opportunity to make an ad hominem comment, amirite?

Is this your idiotic post?

Aww, someone is upset by an observation they don't like. How cute you are!

[Daffan]

Yep. That's why legion is keeping queueable content in the game, but putting it in the gutter and making it as unrewarding as possible.

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Yeah, it's like, who exactly is this game designed for?
You could work 2 jobs 60+ hours a week and run out of content in less than a month.
Is it designed for someone who plays 1 hour a month? Just...what?
FF14 had this same problem, it was a MMO designed for a player base that didn't exist, for the most extreme casuals. My friend who worked a 40 hour 9-5 job ran out of content in FF14 in less than a month.

His schedule didn't allow him to raid, so outside of raiding he had nothing to do after less than a month. Just like this game.

That is NOT healthy for a monthly sub MMO. It only took Blizzard what, 6-7 years to finally realize this?

I believe they added catchup because in early WoW they had bad raid participation rates -but it was really fine imo, it was like a carrot on a stick and kept everyone playing/progressing, but now with things like flexible/cross-realm its easier then ever for casual players to get into content, instead of being gated by 25/40 man requirements.

Yet, the catchup still remains and instead of having to do anything at all you just skip right over it. Pointless.

I was pretty terrible at the game in early wow, and now I'm better but a casual now and there is legit nothing to work on outside of 1 raid on 1 difficulty.

[brunnor]

This is a load of nonsense. The sustainable end game content was not casual at all. Most of the supposed casual content had a reward structure that rendered it irrelevant.

WoD was a raid-or-die expansion, where the "casual" raiding mode (LFR) was so devalued it lost much of its ability to retain players.

You can beat the game in less than 1 day played from getting max level. It doesn't get more accessible than that. Casual content rewards are supposed to be irrelevant. You get a reward equal to what you put in.

[Tomana]

So the entire game should suffer because Blizzard are incompetent. Yep, sounds about right.

As it stands now, if you remove LFX, the entire game will suffer even more. But apparently, THAT sounds about right for you. Study in contradictions.

[Deleted]

As it stands now, if you remove LFX, the entire game will suffer even more. But apparently, THAT sounds about right for you. Study in contradictions.

Yes people who are not even capable of beating a Raid Boss on Normal will no longer get to see the raid, boho... And people who cannot even get 5 people together for a Dungeon run or join a group will not get to see Dungeons.
Oh my god, you must at least want to do the content to do it, how terrible and entitle people are :O

[Tomana]

Yes people who are not even capable of beating a Raid Boss on Normal will no longer get to see the raid, boho... And people who cannot even get 5 people together for a Dungeon run or join a group will not get to see Dungeons.

Yeah, and then they'll leave the game and not come back. That's an awesome business plan you got there.
Maybe you should look in other MMOs, you'll notice that games that didn't have group finders had to implement them in a rush?

[terminaltrip421]

Yes people who are not even capable of beating a Raid Boss on Normal will no longer get to see the raid, boho... And people who cannot even get 5 people together for a Dungeon run or join a group will not get to see Dungeons.
Oh my god, you must at least want to do the content to do it, how terrible and entitle people are :O

countless people running LFR were knocking down normal bosses before your main ever hit elwynn. they grew up and got lives and don't have time for it anymore. enjoy raiding from your momma's basement.

on topic: no. the biggest problem wow faces is one of profit margins.

[Dormie]

countless people running LFR were knocking down normal bosses before your main ever hit elwynn. they grew up and got lives and don't have time for it anymore. enjoy raiding from your momma's basement.

Oldest and feeblest excuse in the book.

[Deleted]

Yeah, and then they'll leave the game and not come back. That's an awesome business plan you got there.
Maybe you should look in other MMOs, you'll notice that games that didn't have group finders had to implement them in a rush?

Yes because if people can be lazy fucks, they will be. And you really think a majority of people would leave if there wasn't such a thing as LFX? Vanilla trought WotLK want to have a word with you. Yes it's not causation, but you cannot deny the game did way better before these tools where in.

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countless people running LFR were knocking down normal bosses before your main ever hit elwynn. they grew up and got lives and don't have time for it anymore. enjoy raiding from your momma's basement.

on topic: no. the biggest problem wow faces is one of profit margins.

If they don't have time anymore, they don't deserve the content that consumes time. If I just have 2 hours a day of free time but I want to go to a 3 hour movie everyday, I cannot demand the movie to be shortend, can I?

[ShiyoKozuki]

Yeah, and then they'll leave the game and not come back. That's an awesome business plan you got there.
Maybe you should look in other MMOs, you'll notice that games that didn't have group finders had to implement them in a rush?

People have already left the game because they get to 100 in less than 10 hours played 90-100, or less than 2 days played 1-100, get fully geared in catch up honor gear(ilvl 700) in less than 5 hours, then realize they either raid, do rated pvp, or don't play at all.

They choose the "I don't want to pay you anymore for nothing" option.

[Deleted]

In my honest opinion, no.

As I see it, recent expansions have mostly catered to the 1% Endgame Heroic/Mythic raiding crowd, trivializing (both in difficulty and reward) mostly anything that isn't the highest level of raiding in the current tier, so that hardcore players don't have to bother with anything else. The rest basically getting heavily watered down versions of mythic/heroic content.

However what casualization remains does have some impact, worst of which probably being the vast difference in gear power between raid tiers due to 4 difficulties.

Regard this as an opinion piece, I don't claim to be objectively true on my points.

[Deleted]

In my honest opinion, no.

As I see it, recent expansions have mostly catered to the 1% Endgame Heroic/Mythic raiding crowd, trivializing (both in difficulty and reward) mostly anything that isn't the highest level of raiding in the current tier, so that hardcore players don't have to bother with anything else. The rest basically getting heavily watered down versions of mythic/heroic content.

However what casualization remains does have some impact, worst of which probably being the vast difference in gear power between raid tiers due to 4 difficulties.

Regard this as an opinion piece, I don't claim to be objectively true on my points.

The trivializing of any content is what is mostly meant with casualization, make the game for people who only can invest 6 or less hours a week, everyone who can put in more will be done much much faster und get bored. For all intents and purposes you are "hardcore" if you can put in 8 or more hours a week... because then you are bone with most content somewhere between one and two months.

[Deleted]

True. But it does depend on YOUR meaning of casualisation. And not everything that has been made "casual" is a negative.

Positive casualisation:
- no more weaponskills
- no more annoying /trade spamming
- no more insane amount of clicking pér corpse but massloot
- mounts at level 20 (or even level 1)
- map with questing areas
- duo spec

negative casualisation:
- outdoor world is trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- dungeons are trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- teleportation towards a dungeon via LFX-tool
- garrions and how they were implemented suited the casual player but removed any need for the player who had more time to spend to spend that time in WoW.
- etc

So yes casualisation did make people leave. But I think if Blizzard did "OTHER" casualisationstuff instead, it would be far less of an exodus.
And I do not blame the casuals themselves. I haven't heard anyone for a teleport towards those dungeons. Sure now that they have it, they won't let go of it. But no one complained about them before.

Agree with most of it; "mounts at level 20 (or even level 1)" tho, big negative.
I understand waiting to level 20 is not the funniest thing, but it is a achivment once you reach it, even the fact that it become tons cheaper is a big, big negative.

One other big negative; casualitisation of proffessions.

[Deleted]

False, casual and hardcore content can coexist... and I don't think the leveling is so extremly easy because it has to be "casual friendly" but rather because the stats/items are broken and Blizzard doesn't care enough about the content prior to lvl 85.

[Todesbote]

Not sure how it's possible to think something like this. I guess you're part of the player base that wants gear mailed to them from the current raid every tuesday.

Are you the paladin who posts on the official forums?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...48?page=20#394
Is this your idiotic post?
Talking about PVP:

^ About PVP

I literally threw up in my mouth while reading the post of Osmeric you quoted. You are the reason this game went to shit, I hope you know that.

[Kolvarg]

False, casual and hardcore content can coexist... and I don't think the leveling is so extremly easy because it has to be "casual friendly" but rather because the stats/items are broken and Blizzard doesn't care enough about the content prior to lvl 85.

That's true. I don't think the problem OP means is casualization per se, but rather making the content less challenging and shortening time needed for character progression, and that has nothing directly to do with the player being casual or hardcore, for the most part.

As you say, casual and hardcore content can coexist, with the detail that likely the hardcore player will progress faster. At least imo that's a better solution than just making the "hardcore content" easier/shorter/faster for everyone.

[Rafoel]

That's true. I don't think the problem OP means is casualization per se, but rather making the content less challenging and shortening time needed for character progression, and that has nothing directly to do with the player being casual or hardcore, for the most part.

As you say, casual and hardcore content can coexist, with the detail that likely the hardcore player will progress faster. At least imo that's a better solution than just making the "hardcore content" easier/shorter/faster for everyone.

That's the fault of people whose sole reason of playing WoW is leveling as many characters to max level as possible.