Overwatch is fun and enjoyable but...

[Kelimbror]

The game not holding your hand and telling you exactly what to do in every particular situation is not a failure of the game. What tells you which hero to change to? Understanding the situation and what advantages each hero brings. If you don't, then you're probably going to get beaten by better players who do, until you can figure that out for yourself. And that's a good thing. It's a learning curve. Learning curves are not errors or failures.

It's also ironic that people are complaining that the game doesn't communicate enough for them when it goes above and beyond in terms of information presented to you about the characters, your personal statistics, and provides a training venue to learn how to use the abilities.

I dare say it's probably the most informative and well presented strategy game I've seen. From giving you detailed breakdowns of Hero abilities, even inside of the active game, to showing you every death so you can both learn from your mistakes and get insight into player positioning during the match, to providing detailed statistics comparing your performance to overall and per character averages.

It gives you all the information you need to know to understand how to play on your own, without actually telling you what to do. It's ideal.

[Endus]

It gives you all the information you need to know to understand how to play on your own, without actually telling you what to do. It's ideal.

That's how I feel too. Gives you every single resource you could possibly want to help you learn, without spoon-feeding things to you. And any attempt to DO such spoonfeeding would inevitably end up being advice that is incomplete or overly narrow, anyway; why tell people "Reaper is strong in close combat; stunning him with McCree is a strong counter", when McCree is by no means the only way to put an end to Reaper's shenanigans? That puts too much focus on a single counterplay, ignoring the others, rather than leaving it up to player ingenuity and understanding.

[Tripax]

As a FPS game: crap

As a casual moba+fps game fusion: good I guess?

I hate mobas with a passion, so maybe it's not a game for me... Too bad. I can't see myself enjoying a game where you can get your ass handed to you by people who have no clue what they are actually doing.

[Aggrophobic]

It is true. Your post is blatantly selfish. You watch YOUR medals roll in, while your team could be losing non stop. What if two other people pick Widow and Hanzo, do you stay as Widow? Sure sounds like it.

When playing with randoms? Yeap, always.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I wish that I could play it as it was meant to be played...

[Okacz]

Just what is a "builder", anyway? The game won't tell you. So how is the new player supposed to know which hero is the one to take to avoid that weakness?

We get it - you like the game. Doesn't change the fact that there are some glaring problems with the interface and other things. Maybe Blizzard should stop rushing it out to get a hit game out there again, and spend a little more time making things a bit clearer for the people that haven't been playing for months.

The part where you discover the strengths and weaknesses of all characters is also gameplay. At first you will be picking Tracer 100% of the time because you like her, and then you might realise that you are getting shredded by Roadhog, and choose to try something else. And after seeing a well protected Bastion, you would go back to Tracer, because you already know how good she is in that situation. If a game forced you to learn at its chosen pace it could bore and frustrate a new player, who would rather learn by doing.

Besides, there's plenty of tips in the game. You die to Soldier - a tip about his timing your attack for the window where he fired his rockets shows up. Die to Bastion - hey, Bastion has a weak spot at the back, you might wanna check it out.

The fact that you learn the game while playing, on the fly, is partly why it's so good.

[Video Games]

I hate to break it to ya, but TF2 wasn't the first to do either of these things. You didn't play a damned thing. If you had, I don't know how you can POSSIBLY sit here and say that OW is a TF2 clone.

The only complaint I have is hero stacking. If I could ask for one change for Overwatch, is that it would restrict heroes to be unique per team. Its extremely frustrating to go again a team like 2 mercy / 2 bastion / harts. Stacking heroes really causes extreme imbalances.

I've never even played tf2 and I've only played overwatch and even I know it's literally tf2 with stupid moba abilities.

[Aggrophobic]

But....why?

I prefer winning over "maining" a character. Maybe I'm just weird like that. I dunno.

Team setup means nothing in random matches. What hereo you pick won't change the outcome in the majority of the games you play.
If you play with and against organized teams then it's another matter of course.

[Kelimbror]

Team setup means nothing in random matches. What hereo you pick won't change the outcome in the majority of the games you play.

Erm, nope. That's the exact fallacy that all the other jackos believe which leads to trash matches you are essentially complaining about here. You think it won't change the outcome because you refuse to play the game properly. When in fact, picking the correct roles and then playing those roles is what wins games.

You got roflstomped? It's because you and two other guys thought it would be cool to all play snipers on a payload defense map. Meanwhile, the offensive team slapped a Reinhart on the payload with a healer and you just sat in the back of the map the whole time picking off random people and not affecting the game at all.

Can't wait for ranked play so I can leave people like you behind.

[Aggrophobic]

Erm, nope. That's the exact fallacy that all the other jackos believe which leads to trash matches you are essentially complaining about here. You think it won't change the outcome because you refuse to play the game properly. When in fact, picking the correct roles and then playing those roles is what wins games.

You got roflstomped? It's because you and two other guys thought it would be cool to all play snipers on a payload defense map. Meanwhile, the offensive team slapped a Reinhart on the payload with a healer and you just sat in the back of the map the whole time picking off random people and not affecting the game at all.

Can't wait for ranked play so I can leave people like you behind.

Not sure if I can see my solo queue wins but I've won 69% of all games I've played.
I'm not complaining that I can't win, I'm saying the whole concept of the game is pointless in games with randoms.
You play this game with a premade or you don't really play it at all. Not sure this is good design and I really doubt this game will be able to keep most player entertained for long when it's sucha bad experience for most casual players.

It's the same issue Hots has but other games of the same genre did better.

[Kelimbror]

I'm saying the whole concept of the game is pointless in games with randoms.

Confirmation bias. You want to be a jerk in public games, so you feel that it's warranted. Sorry, gameplay doesn't work that way. Luckily, it doesn't care what anyone's ego or selfishness wants. Depending on skill levels, certainly a highly skilled team operating outside of normal strategy can win games against unskilled teams trying to do the strategies, but assuming a law of averages then the team that plays as the gameplay is designed will win the largest percentage of the time. It's the opposite of pointless. It's the way the game is designed. It is inherently the only correct way to play.

Now that does not mean you have to have all roles at all times, nor that you can't have dupes, but simply that performing tactics with your team will provide victory. You can't have 6 lone wolves hanging out in the back trying to snipe people in a payload defense map. It's just not going to work unless the other team is hella bad, at which case it doesn't matter what you are doing.

Teaming up in Overwatch is both constructed and organic. While the roles are constructed, several strategies emerge that offer teamplay whether you like it or not. Even in the extreme case where you run 6 Widowmakers, you'll at least help eachother see through walls 100% of the time. You'll likely lose depending on the map objective, but you know...whatever you want to do.

[Aggrophobic]

Confirmation bias. You want to be a jerk in public games, so you feel that it's warranted. Sorry, gameplay doesn't work that way. Luckily, it doesn't care what anyone's ego or selfishness wants. Depending on skill levels, certainly a highly skilled team operating outside of normal strategy can win games against unskilled teams trying to do the strategies, but assuming a law of averages then the team that plays as the gameplay is designed will win the largest percentage of the time. It's the opposite of pointless. It's the way the game is designed. It is inherently the only correct way to play.

Now that does not mean you have to have all roles at all times, nor that you can't have dupes, but simply that performing tactics with your team will provide victory. You can't have 6 lone wolves hanging out in the back trying to snipe people in a payload defense map. It's just not going to work unless the other team is hella bad, at which case it doesn't matter what you are doing.

Teaming up in Overwatch is both constructed and organic. While the roles are constructed, several strategies emerge that offer teamplay whether you like it or not. Even in the extreme case where you run 6 Widowmakers, you'll at least help eachother see through walls 100% of the time. You'll likely lose depending on the map objective, but you know...whatever you want to do.

Oh, but you're asuming teams actually play the game "the way it was designed".
I've played hundreds of matches since I got the beta and that almost never happens in random games. The team that can pick of the most players consistently, wins.

Getting the play of the game is the most important goal in most solo queue players heads and most seem to think that achiving this is done best by running around alone.
Again, the game does not work in solo queue and trying to get teamwork going is pointless for the most part. You're more likely to get verbaly abused if you even suggest some counter picks or change of strategy.

The best you can do is trying to get a few gold medals to increase your xp/hour gains. Wins or losses is up to the not-so-great match making system.

[Tripax]

I see this complaint pop up a lot in various games - usually as a version of the "casual game" complaint - and I always wonder what it means.

Did you lose, but still believe that you were better than the other guy, so the game is somehow at fault for creating a win condition that you don't agree with?

If you think OW as a fps shooter, then yes, there are plenty of abilities / situations that allow you to kill people way more skilled than you.

But if you think of this as a moba that's played in first person mode... then I guess it fits.

I'm betting many people had wrong expectations of this game in the first place, it's really nice of blizzard to let people try it first. At first I was 100% certain that I'm going to buy Overwatch, but I'm not that sure anymore.

[Tripax]

You got roflstomped? It's because you and two other guys thought it would be cool to all play snipers on a payload defense map. Meanwhile, the offensive team slapped a Reinhart on the payload with a healer and you just sat in the back of the map the whole time picking off random people and not affecting the game at all.

Especially in BETA when playing with randoms, I think people care more about playing the hero they want, than winning.

[Tripax]

the guy who killed you put his crosshair on you and shot you, just like any other shooter.

If playing only Soldier 76's and Mccrees without ultimates, then definetely. Otherwise better fitting description would be "put his crosshair in your general direction". I'm not saying OW sucks, but it's not a fps game "just like the others", not saying it should be either.

[MrHappy]

i dunno ranked mode is where the game is at. if you are having trouble getting past a choke point....time to switch up a strategy. I've swaped from Zenyata to Lucio when we had a hard time pushing past a checkpoint and that won us the game. It's all about picking correct heroes for correct points in the game and countering offensives. Too many bastions at one spot...well time for someone to snipe/ninja them. If you are not in a winning position then you need to re-evaluate what heroes should be active and counter the other team.

IN ranked this matters more than casual quick play. In ranked i even see the wining team swapping heroes to counter the swap the enemy did to ensure they dont get pushed back. This is a game of strategy as much as it is of skill.

[Endus]

I always care about winning. Perhaps to a fault sometimes, but it's always my primary goal.

Even if I'm 100% pugging - and even if I kinda want to try/practice a particular character - if it's clear that switching to something else will help to secure the win, I'll do it.

Yep. Ditto.

And I have to wonder if there isn't some matchmaking already active; people keep talking about every game being just PUG bads who don't cooperate and have no coordination, and I don't see that. Occasionally, sure. But usually, the team's at least making an effort. And sometimes, I'll get a glorious matchup. I've put a couple dozen hours into the game this beta, too, so it's not like I'm at a handful of games played.

I have to wonder if it's because I got into the early access and got my matchmaking "rank" set up more quickly before the flood of newbies when open beta went up. In which case, it's not the community. Remember; the open beta is an open beta. Players who'll never buy the game are faffing about in there.

[Kelimbror]

Yep. Ditto.

And I have to wonder if there isn't some matchmaking already active; people keep talking about every game being just PUG bads who don't cooperate and have no coordination, and I don't see that.

Same, for everything. I think I hit Rank 20 last night and I can't even remember the number of games where either team was so inept they weren't trying to actively win because there have only been a couple. I've seen a lot of unfair games where a tucked away defense point has a protected Torn and Bastion and my team just can't do anything, but I have hardly seen any games where people weren't trying to win.

I honestly haven't even seen bad seeds for character selection lately either. The first day, I saw it a couple of times, but I was doing that too. I hadn't figured the game out so I was queuing with Tracer and Widow because I understood their gameplay innately. Since then, I've recognized how valuable other heroes are in different situations and I've become quite a decent Pharah, Junkrat, and D.Va.

I'm not getting a handle on the support classes quickly enough, as my couple of games with Mercy were pretty bad and Symmetra I just need to get better at turret placement. I imagine a lot of this perceived 'badness' was from the first days when most people didn't even know what the heroes did. I rarely see that now.

[Howard Moon]

Why are people saying OW is a moba?

Because it has cooldown-based abilities? Well I guess that makes WoW, Diablo and hell, even Skyrim mobas, right?

Why even bother with classification when you are just gonna bastardize it at every corner.

[Onikaroshi]

Especially in BETA when playing with randoms, I think people care more about playing the hero they want, than winning.

It's a game, I play it to have fun, I do not have fun playing a character I do not want to play, so I have more fun playing said character than winning. I love the game, don't care if I win or not, had a hell of a lot of fun charging people off cliffs with reinhardt