Removing transmog from WoW.

[Deleted]

Transmog makes the game significantly less immersive and it does harm the community cohesion in a ton of different ways.

Maybe for you, certainly not for me. If someone is (in charatcer) a powerful warrior who went toe to toe with Mannoroth and Archimonde himself, with mog they can look like a powerful warrior with skulls and mother fucking pauldrons the size of small cars. Or humble, plain armor and armaments for the contrast. Or all green, with green clan tabard and green themed weapons, because it's their thing. Or whatever they choose for RP purposes. Without mog? They look like a clown on a 10 minute coffee break, straight from the fair. Guess which is more immersive for me?

Community cohesion and mog? What does that even mean? Like... community in a guild? Has nothing to do with mog and everything to do with the types of content available. Server community? Also has nothing to do with mog, it was a byproduct of no LFG and no xrealm - misery loves company, after all.

[Deleted]

I despise modern wow but transmog is one of the good things in it.

You think it is, but it's not. xD

[Atelniar]

Transmog is literally one of the things in WoW I never gave a flying cod about. Why? Because it's a means for people to look different. It doesn't improve or reduce the experience. Roleplayers merely carried an extra set of gear in their bags as they weren't necessarily flooding their inventory with PvP or PvE viable consumables. Heck, some of them still do that as transmog doesn't solve a roleplayer's issue. Transmog is simply a lazy replacement for what games such as GW2 and BDO use: colour dyes. It is better in the sense that you can make your most powerful gear look like a armor set you like, but it is worse in that it actually gives far less customization.

I literally couldn't give a shit about transmog, for better or worse. It's a redundant feature to me. And I say that as a feral druid who had to wear melon-shoulders in PvP early in WoD. In fact, so many transmogged that shit that it made me stand out, ironically enough. I saw people transmogging their female avatars into some scanty armor set, they all looked the same, lol. So much for individuality. Transmog is cool in theory, but when there are only so few sets that people genuinly like, everyone ends up looking the same anyways. The exception are those who are a little creative with their transmogging.

It doesn't break or make the game, to me it is almost as relevant as the goddamn twitter-functionality. Why? Because there is usually a correlation between those who like transmogging their character and those who actually use that crappy feature (twitter tool).

[Yarathir]

Wanting to be able to spot people's accomplishments easily != Wanting to know their stats. I don't give a fuck about their numbers.

Wanting to know their gameplay achievements isn't an immersive situation anyway. If a guy wears mythic gear, it still links to the idea that they raided mythic; that's not immersion any more than taking the extra step of looking at it in their character window is.

Why do you assume that people would be wearing clown outfits just because they are not directly in control of what they wear?
It's possible to make the art style of the game come together, you know.

Because they did before transmog. Because what may be BiS may not flow at all with your other pieces.

Because the game isn't an MMORPG anymore. But if it was, they would be pretty big negative consequences.

That's your opinion.

[Deleted]

It's funny people want to inspect or judge the player's skill by the appearance when most of the time you can just look and their HP to tell you that...

This thread isnt about inspecting people or looking at their armory to see if they are good players or not it's deeper then that. Do you think that it's cool for a very noobish player to pretend that he is good in a game by transmogging himself so he can look powerful? Even though he might be full green geared? I think thats against the core of WoW.. it's just plot. stupidness.. it goes right against the original World of Warcrafts ways of the game. Wich is why the game has just turned upside down..

[Deleted]

I actually want more quality of life changes to the transmogrification system, such as an "Outfit loadout" where you save a particular transmog outfit and it stays on your character even when you get new gear and "Saved Outfits" where you can save your favorite transmog looks and switch between them (for a minor gold fee) at either the Ethereal in the capital cities or the one Grand Expedition Yak vendor.

Legion's transmog system says hello

[thilicen]

I only care about peoples opinions about having transmog in the game, and what downsides it have had on the game. And how could the future game be without it.

So "Agree with me or get out"? Fuck off, transmog is awesome.

[Atelniar]

Wanting to know their gameplay achievements isn't an immersive situation anyway. If a guy wears mythic gear, it still links to the idea that they raided mythic; that's not immersion any more than taking the extra step of looking at it in their character window is.


Because they did before transmog. Because what may be BiS may not flow at all with your other pieces.


That's your opinion.

On that last point. A large section of RPG-elements have been phased out of WoW over the years. Mostly due to convenience. And new, more user-friendly RPG elements have not been introduced in turn.

A game such as BDO introduce horses that can actually die and stay where you leave them. That is an RPG element. WoW summons its mounts conveniently...

Hunters used to have different pets with different abilities depending on the specific mob (if it was a rare mob) and its species/type, now it is based on type/species exclusively. Reason? Everyone picked pets with faster attack speed unless they wanted a PvP-specific pet. Tanking pets were irrelevant when you were done leveling or had decent gear for your level. Heck, you used to have to feed them to keep your pet relevant, but that was too bothersome of course. You had to look for meat on the AH or kill specific mobs to stack some meat in your bags to counter that. Inconvenient for players, it had to go. Of course.

BDO allows a cooking system where you gather herbs, potatoes, etc. Then you process the material by shaking, grinding or heating + more. This turns the ingredient into potato flower, etc. Something you can use while cooking. In WoW professions have slowly phased out the need to melt down different materials in smithing, etc. Why? Because in expansions there are only 1, maybe 2 relevant ores. It's simplistic. It's bad from an RPG-perspective. It's not immersive.

WoW is barely an RPG, it is definetly less of an RPG than it was over 10 years ago. No neat RPG-features have been added, many flavourful RPG elements such as class quests have been completely removed.

Sure thing, just opinion. LOL. MMORPG, my arse. More like an MMOHCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Hotkey Combat Simulator).

[Erwarth]

Soon : "Transmog is killing wow !"

[Deleted]

Transmog is literally one of the things in WoW I never gave a flying cod about. Why? Because it's a means for people to look different. It doesn't improve or reduce the experience. Roleplayers merely carried an extra set of gear in their bags as they weren't necessarily flooding their inventory with PvP or PvE viable consumables. Heck, some of them still do that as transmog doesn't solve a roleplayer's issue. Transmog is simply a lazy replacement for what games such as GW2 and BDO use: colour dyes. It is better in the sense that you can make your most powerful gear look like a armor set you like, but it is worse in that it actually gives far less customization.

I literally couldn't give a shit about transmog, for better or worse. It's a redundant feature to me. And I say that as a feral druid who had to wear melon-shoulders in PvP early in WoD. In fact, so many transmogged that shit that it made me stand out, ironically enough. I saw people transmogging their female avatars into some scanty armor set, they all looked the same, lol. So much for individuality. Transmog is cool in theory, but when there are only so few sets that people genuinly like, everyone ends up looking the same anyways. The exception are those who are a little creative with their transmogging.

It doesn't break or make the game, to me it is almost as relevant as the goddamn twitter-functionality. Why? Because there is usually a correlation between those who like transmogging their character and those who actually use that crappy feature (twitter tool).

I surely don't use Twitter and there is no feature in WoW I despise more. The whole patch was an insult, besides new BE models, there was nothing worth in it.

But I love transmog. Yes, it's flawed and not nearly as good as the vanity looks system from LotRO. There, you can have up to 7 different look on a character if you spend some shop coins, dyes and a shared wardrobe for selected favorite pieces you want to use across different characters. You are not even bound by armour class or class restrictions, so you can use pieces from a Burglar set on your Ministrel, for example. Yes, there are some awkward moments when you see a female tank in a fancy but impractical dress, but beside that, vanity looks work great in LotRO (which also has a greater focus on the RPG aspect than WoW does).

[Erwarth]

WoW is barely an RPG, it is definetly less of an RPG than it was over 10 years ago. No neat RPG-features have been added, many flavourful RPG elements such as class quests have been completely removed.

Sure thing, just opinion. LOL.

Legion class quest says hello
Green fire quest says hello
Level 20 weapons and level 50 helmet class quest says hello too

[Atelniar]

Legion class quest says hello
Green fire quest says hello
Level 20 weapons and level 50 helmet class quest says hello too

Vanilla class quests said goodbye in 2010. Adding a small retribution to that 6 years later, after doing it while removing the ability to pick your own weapon isn't an improvement. It's a disgrace.

Also, if I might add: for some the legendary weapon in question is actually relevant, for others it can be considered completely made up. AKA: arbitrary nonsense with no former lore supporting it.

I can mention old RPG-relevant content that has been removed in droves more than you can ever hope to mention new things they plan to add in legion. Heck, by adding one they remove another (weapon choice).

[Atelniar]

Even the entire story while leveling through Warlords was pretty good. Garrisons are a great RPG element initially then become somewhat of a mini-game after completing the campaigns. I really don't see how anyone can say WoW has less RPG features.

Warlords smelled unfinished in terms of questing. Orgrim Doomhammer's introduction as an Alliance player was especially bad. He had poorly done dialogue, and was met with unimpressive "clapping", only to die 15-30 minutes later. Great immersion. Great leveling. Great storytelling. Eh, no.

Garrisons were terrible from an RPG perspective. 1) there was limited lore connection to your followers. And your interactions with said followers ended upon completetion of the quests, aside from the bodyguards (who you usually had no lore connection to at all). SWTOR did this better back in 2012! Garrisons and the follower-system was a lackluster minigame with restrictions that totally destroyed profession mechanics by adding artifical gating and rendering gathering professions redundant.

I don't know how you can call that a great RPG-element... After playing more recent titles I am terrified that there are 3-5 million players staying attatched to WoW barely because of it's reputation from the past. Because as an RPG among MMORPG's, WoW is outdated and bad. I hope that some improvements will be made in Legion, but I am sceptical if you have to sacrifice weapon customization to introduce new RPG-elements...

[Deleted]

This thread isnt about inspecting people or looking at their armory to see if they are good players or not it's deeper then that. Do you think that it's cool for a very noobish player to pretend that he is good in a game by transmogging himself so he can look powerful? Even though he might be full green geared? I think thats against the core of WoW.. it's just plot. stupidness.. it goes right against the original World of Warcrafts ways of the game. Wich is why the game has just turned upside down..

It's not "deep". It's in fact the very definition of "shallow". You want to feel good about yourself by looking down on people based on what items they're wearing.

The game is all about niches of players. Mythic raiders are a niche, PVPers are a niche, casuals are a niche, collectors are a niche, pet goddamn battlers are a niche.

You'd like to shit right on roleplayers, who use mog for immersion and making unique scenes and characters, collectors for whom gathering mog gear is an in-game goal in and of itself, raiders who just enjoy looking good, gold makers who made a game of knowing the market, knowing what sells and trading in it - and all of this because you want to make yourself feel better and because "muh tradition".

Well, fuck your tradition. I don't give a damn about your 12 year old "original ways". Times change. Almost 2000 guilds have killed mythic Archimonde. It's not an achievement to have mythic Archi items, or mythic items in general. If it's your personal goal to clear mythic - that's great. If you succeed - more power to you! But nobody's gonna fawn over you and stroke your dick for it. If you want people to look up to you, achieve something - like I said before, early progression kill, high rank, or multiglad in your pvp minigame, if you prefer that. People who know, will know to check and see you for who you are and what you've achieved. People who don't know and don't care, will continue not to care.

Orgrim Doomhammer's introduction as an Alliance player was especially bad. He had poorly done dialogue, and was met with unimpressive "clapping", only to die 15-30 minutes later. Great immersion. Great leveling. Great storytelling. Eh, no.

Horde side it was the same. Such a damn fucking shame, WoD. Brought back all those epic old lore characters... then did nothing with them. Brought back old "savage" Draenor... did nothing with it. No cool quests, no old orc culture, no new lore, just orcs, tanks, machineguns and dumb plot holes. Bleh.

[Yarathir]

On that last point. A large section of RPG-elements have been phased out of WoW over the years. Mostly due to convenience. And new, more user-friendly RPG elements have not been introduced in turn.

And that didn't make it "not an MMORPG anymore." by any definition but your own subjective one.

A game such as BDO introduce horses that can actually die and stay where you leave them. That is an RPG element. WoW summons its mounts conveniently...

Irrelevant, some games handle stuff others. Some games are more RPG-like in one way, and less in another. Just because one game has it doesn't mean WoW has to have it too.

That aside, minus the dying part, I'd actually like more in-the-world mounts. I don't like that a cloud of smoke appears and you're up on it. I'd at least like to summon it and have it come running up to you, after which you can choose to mount it (vehicle button-like)

Hunters used to have different pets with different abilities depending on the specific mob (if it was a rare mob) and its species/type, now it is based on type/species exclusively. Reason? Everyone picked pets with faster attack speed unless they wanted a PvP-specific pet. Tanking pets were irrelevant when you were done leveling or had decent gear for your level. Heck, you used to have to feed them to keep your pet relevant, but that was too bothersome of course. You had to look for meat on the AH or kill specific mobs to stack some meat in your bags to counter that. Inconvenient for players, it had to go. Of course.

And it lead to a vast majority of pet families never ever being used. There was no choice, it was just the best pet for the situation, and that was that. Same with talent trees: it wasn't choice - you all just copied the same Elitistjerks talents and had to deal with it.

I like pets more now. Yes, they have less specific abilities, but at least I don't have to feel guilty or less efficient for bringing a ravager rather than whatever pet was most powerful that particular expansion or patch.

And I didn't mind the immersive part of feeding them. In fact, I wish they made pets emote based on several circumstances, including how you feed them, but having them run away on you like that in situations where you might not have any opportunity to get the correct food for your pet at the time was not fun. Pet happiness was okay. Pets running away? A hassle.

BDO allows a cooking system where you gather herbs, potatoes, etc. Then you process the material by shaking, grinding or heating + more. This turns the ingredient into potato flower, etc. Something you can use while cooking. In WoW professions have slowly phased out the need to melt down different materials in smithing, etc. Why? Because in expansions there are only 1, maybe 2 relevant ores. It's simplistic. It's bad from an RPG-perspective. It's not immersive.

Again. One game does one thing, so WoW needs to do it too or it isn't an MMORPG. If you like that game so much, play it. Don't try to turn WoW into a clone of it.

WoW is barely an RPG, it is definetly less of an RPG than it was over 10 years ago. No neat RPG-features have been added,

By YOUR subjective opinion. Objectively, it's still an MMO, and it's still an RPG. Your small pet peeves or the features you happened to like being removed didn't suddenly make it not an MMORPG.

many flavourful RPG elements such as class quests have been completely removed.

Like the fel fire quest that was added in MoP?

Sure thing, just opinion. LOL. MMORPG, my arse. More like an MMOHCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Hotkey Combat Simulator).

Yes, it's just an opinion. It's not a single-player game, so just because it's not multiplayer enough for you doesn't mean it's no longer a multiplayer game. Argue until you're blue in the face. All you're doing is "I don't think it's RPGy enough by my own standards so it's not an RPG."

It's the epitome of egocentric, entitled behaviour, claiming something to not be something it is because it doesn't have the features you want while by an objective metric, it very much still is that thing you deny it is.

Furthermore, you seem to be carrying a chip on your shoulders, waiting to just unload about how much better the good 'ol days were, when you had to travel from Winterspring to Tanaris to Silverpine for 10C, and assuming that was "immersive", rather just lazy quest design and artificial time-gating for the sake of time-gating.

A lot of things obstructed fun gameplay for a lot of people and made it feel choppy and unnecessarily padded. Those were removed or replaced with other features - that's what happens; a game evolves when something gets in the way of appealing or flowing gameplay.

Your either/or mentality will not change anything.

[Vintersol]

Transmog is by far the best thing hat happened for WoW.

[Delekii]

Transmog is almost singularly the reason why the game is able to maintain any sort of userbase in lul periods at all.

Good luck with that.

[Chirri]

I have a lot of fun with people striking up conversations about old content because of the old gear I've collected over the last 10 years. I don't pretend to have done bleeding edge content at the highest difficulties, but I've been an active raider since BC. Shared fondness for old content is nice, and brings people together.

I feel that using gear to exclude people does more damage to the game, rather than helping it.

I'm not sure I understand how "a very noobish player" can "pretend he is good at a game by transmogging himself so he can look powerful," though. Is this from PVP? I thought the actually impressive gear had skins that weren't duplicated down. I mean we've had very similar pieces, but the coloring is different. If you care about what each coloring means, you'll easily recognize whether they've got the good stuff, or the tamer stuff. The only people they might confuse are fellow noobs.

[Soulwind]

Then

"New content is killing wow!"

Isn't that what vanilla servers are about? WoW without new content?

[Awbee]

Huh? I disagree with you on pretty much everything. The game is NOT just about "questing, raiding, professions, PVP", even in Vanilla there were people who enjoyed it for different reasons. Even when I started in Wrath, I would often keep wearing a slightly worse piece of gear if it looked much, much better. And new armor is supposed to make you feel excited, but too often I was like "noooo now I get this fugly new chestpiece that's messing up my entire look, but it's too good stats-wise not to wear it >.< "


Aesthetics are a very important part of the game, and people enjoy caring about their aesthetics. Transmog opened up a HUGE new branch of the game. It keeps players busy and excited, and they have reason to spend many more hours in the game. Because they can play around with so many different looks, or hunt down that specific piece of gear that they want. The upcoming Wardrobe will extend this: because I'm sure some people will feel the need to collect as much as they can, just because they enjoy filling collections, and others will be inspired by all the new options.


You talk about "raider recognition", I'll call it that. You're not the only one who glamourizes it. A couple raiders seem to think that everyone cares about what gear they're wearing or even that it's "important for the game" that everybody can admire their status. It's a bit hilarious, to be honest. Most people really don't care.

But actually, what you crave still exists in a way. Raiders and high PVP'ers still have an advantage over the "peasants". They get to wear the newest fancy schmancy Mythic sets very early when they come out. You'll still be one of the first to stand around with T19 Mythic in Dalaran, if that pleases you. The only difference with Transmog is that previously you would have been surrounded by people with mismatched eyesore armor, whereas now most people wear whatever they think looks good. Sitting in a city or waiting around after a wipe in a raid has become a much more interesting experience now, because I can look at all the different transmogs around me and maybe get some new inspiration myself.

This is much more realistic, sorta, from an RP perspective: most NPC's that you meet also look "put together". How come all those Stormwind Guards don't have bright pink gauntlets because they happened to have better stats? I'm pretty sure they all use transmog too!