The Great American Lie: Work Earns Living Wage

[jakeic]

Why do you insist on ignoring productivity in comparison to wages? Dain bramage?

Because if you use a hammer to pound in a nail rather than your hand the hammer is the one doing the work, and as such you should be payed less.

Logic.

[Machismo]

You're talking about moral imperative, and not economics. IE: This individual deserves less money because I can pay him less money.

But we can't apply the same logic to businesses, without you freaking out - can we? This business deserves to be taxed more because we can tax them more.

Actually, you are missing one important thing, one of those actions involves the threat of force from the government. A better analogy would be, "I don't have to shop at that business who does not pay their employees what I want them to, so I will not shop there."

[Zeek Daniels]

I think it has less to do with low wages and more to do with living above your means. If its true these guys didnt go to college then their bills are coming from elsewhere. I pay around $400 a month for loans. If i had that extra $400 a month i would be sitting pretty.

[Pua]

I think it has less to do with low wages and more to do with living above your means. If its true these guys didnt go to college then their bills are coming from elsewhere. I pay around $400 a month for loans. If i had that extra $400 a month i would be sitting pretty.

I explained, a page ago, why you're incorrect.

Unless you think "living above your means" includes eating?

[Mayhem]

It was 10:50 based on inflation, so there's still no justification for it to be $15 now. Even then, that was an outlier, and not the norm. If you look at the historical norm, we are close to being in line, and slightly above the lifetime average of the minimum wage. Of course, the argument most people make is not to raise it to something sane, like $9.00 an hour, they parrot the line of $15 an hour or a "livable wage." All that does, is display their ignorance.

That is only including inflation. Price of items didn´t increase/decrease only based on inflation but other factors too. Initially the minimum wage was raised up until 1968 when it started to drop and drop and drop never to be raised again.

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No, people want to raise the minimum wage far higher than it ever was, and that's taking inflation into account.

Yeah, take a look at minimum wages through the years, raising it above anything comparable (previous minimum wages), was the norm.

[Machismo]

That is only including inflation. Price of items didn´t increase/decrease only based on inflation but other factors too. Initially the minimum wage was raised up until 1968 when it started to drop and drop and drop never to be raised again.

Inflation is the value rating for the purchasing power of money. It quite literally is the change in cost of products.

I have looked at minimum wage through the years, I provided links to it. There's no justification for raising it so much. You want to cite an outlier year as justification for creating a far larger outlier... which makes no sense at all.

[Deleted]

It's neverending story. Roman Republic/Empire is only example, same problems these days. Some people have to much power/money and rest of populacy is angry because poor jobs, no jobs, slaves (you can say it about these kids from Bangladesh making shoes etc.) and politician being lap dogs of 'power' people.
We all know what happend next.

[Wildtree]

Because if you use a hammer to pound in a nail rather than your hand the hammer is the one doing the work, and as such you should be payed less.

Logic.

no, the nail does the work

[Pua]

It's neverending story. Roman Republic/Empire is only example, same problems these days. Some people have to much power/money and rest of populacy is angry because poor jobs, no jobs, slaves (you can say it about these kids from Bangladesh making shoes etc.) and politician being lap dogs of 'power' people.
We all know what happend next.

And the same thing is not far from happening again. Once people are robbed of the basic means to live, you effectively leave them with little more option than to resort to violence.

It's not far away.

[Machismo]

Because if you use a hammer to pound in a nail rather than your hand the hammer is the one doing the work, and as such you should be payed less.

Logic.

And when the nail gun got invented, should we still pay the guy by how many nails he put into a roof, or by how much time he spent doing it?

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And the same thing is not far from happening again. Once people are robbed of the basic means to live, you effectively leave them with little more option than to resort to violence.

It's not far away.

They are not being robbed of anything. They are willfully agreeing to work for a price. They chose their own value. That's like buying a car from a dealership, then complaining that they stole money from you when you decide you didn't like how much you paid.

[Wildtree]

And when the nail gun got invented, should we still pay the guy by how many nails he put into a roof, or by how much time he spent doing it?

That's a bad metaphor lol
Roofs are paid by size... how many squares it has. How long it takes you is your problem.

And you normally need both, hammer and gun.

/hides

[Mayhem]

Inflation is the value rating for the purchasing power of money. It quite literally is the change in cost of products.

It´s an average increase based on a number of different items. That however doesn´t tell you how much more a pack of milk costs compared to for example 1968.

Here´s what i´m talking about, though i haven´t confirmed these numbers, so take it with a grain of salt:

[Bodakane]

Because I have yet to see the 'cons', as you put it, complain about infrastructure.

Oh ok, you haven't heard it. Lemme guess this isn't implying your own tiny view to the whole again?

[Daerio]

Inflation is the value rating for the purchasing power of money. It quite literally is the change in cost of products.

I have looked at minimum wage through the years, I provided links to it. There's no justification for raising it so much. You want to cite an outlier year as justification for creating a far larger outlier... which makes no sense at all.

The subtleties of trying to explain how inflation doesn't entirely accurately describe what it tries to describe to somebody to doesn't know the first thing about economics.

[Mayhem]

They are not being robbed of anything. They are willfully agreeing to work for a price. They chose their own value. That's like buying a car from a dealership, then complaining that they stole money from you when you decide you didn't like how much you paid.

That works only in a world where you can get along without eating, sleeping and a roof over your head. The employer will always have the upper hand.

[Bodakane]

If you only pay $1000 out of an actual cost of $10,000 then the $9000 is absolutely a hand out from whom ever picked up the tab for you.

I see I see.

Did your taxes cover the upkeep on all the roads you used that year? Nope, handout.
Did your taxes cover the military protecting you interests on foreign soil that year? Nope, handout.
Did you taxes cover the court system enforcing contracts you used that year? Nope, handout.

Thank you for the lesson.

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thank you for enlightening me paul krugman

Yeah, yeah.....

I guess you didn't read far enough to see that's EXACTLY what happened in this thread.

[Macaquerie]

They are not being robbed of anything. They are willfully agreeing to work for a price. They chose their own value. That's like buying a car from a dealership, then complaining that they stole money from you when you decide you didn't like how much you paid.

Wages aren't really the product of negotiation between two equal parties, when one side has all of the leverage and an interest in keeping the price as low as possible, it will do so every time. Now of course the solution to that is quite simple, but every time you bring it up around conservatives you start seeing blood coming out of their eyes and blood coming out of...wherever.

[Wildtree]

It´s an average increase based on a number of different items. That however doesn´t tell you how much more a pack of milk costs compared to for example 1968.

Here´s what i´m talking about, though i haven´t confirmed these numbers, so take it with a grain of salt:

The problem with such figures is, that the country has an immense gap regarding costs.
Your average rent for a 1 bedroom apt in NYC is $3020, and in say Omaha, NE it's about $400.00.
That's just one figure.
There cannot be a nationwide income level, since some parts need more, some parts need less for the exact same quality of life.

[twelvethirty]

If only workers were allowed to unionize. It's funny, this woman in a Ford plant is making 9.50 while unionized Ford workers entry level salary is 3 times that. The American has no real power over employers and only helps then pay you pennies

[Bodakane]

Hired through Temp Agencies.......Think I found your problem.

You want a living wage? Stop working for a temp agency, who may be taking a moderate chunk of YOUR paycheck into their pocket. Temp agencies are EVIL. When you work through a Temp Agency, you work FOR THEM, not for the company they place you with, and whatever that company pays you, the Temp Agency collects a chunk of it to line their own pocket.

Either find a PLACEMENT agency, who's job is to find you an employer and get you hired by them, or get hired directly by the company the Temp Agency places you in.

You didn't find the problem. You tripped and fell because you were focused on the wrong thing. You essentially, Foxnewsed yourself.