The Six-Hour Workday Works in Europe. What About America?

[Deleted]

That is essentially what you do. Your goal is to maximize profit while paying your employees as little as possible while still getting the quality of work you require out of them. They are working hard to make you rich.

If you could get away with paying your employees half of what you do now you would probably do it even if it put them in to a bad financial position. It might in fact make them even more depentant on you thus being willing to work harder and longer because they can't afford do quit. For arguments sake lets pretend ALL wages was cut across the nation so that they didn't have any other options. As a business man you wouldn't lower the prices of your goods and services but rather happilly accept the massively increased profit margins.

You seem to be working in a 19th century factory of sorts, judging on the way you view the world.

[Revi]

As the article points out, it cost the employer more money. The problem for the vast majority of healthcare professions is exactly that; lack of money.

If everyone just had their HR budget given a big boost, there's countless ways they could improve worker productivity/happiness other than shorter days as well.

I think it sounds great with a 6 hour workweek, but it's not exactly "proving itself" when it's costing the employer a lot more money. That is the whole problem.

[Deleted]

Yeah it's Walmarts fault that my friend doesn't work and lays around all day and plays video games and watches TV on the governments dime

Noone is talking about your lazy friend. The discussion is about the people who work much harder than a lot of rich people, and yet they can barely get by. "Just get an education!" - Right, except that costs a lot of money, and doesn't exactly leave much room for working. And you know, they have to work to get food and pay bills.

I'm so immensely sick and tired of this discussion, because one side is so blatantly oblivious when it comes to reality. "Why can't people just do like me, I did fine" - Says guy who has every opportunity to do things, because of the life he was born into. Not everyone gets that, and the ones who don't get fucked so unbelievably hard in America. Thank god I don't live there, it is frustrating enough to watch it from outside the country, I can only imagine the frustration of living there and watching it continue.

[Deleted]

You seem to be working in a 19th century factory of sorts, judging on the way you view the world.

We've simply exchanged our blue collars for white ones. The situtation is the same.

Again you'd be happy if you could make your employees work longer hours for less pay right? Provided it had no negative repercussions for you or your business interests.

[Deleted]

We've simply exchanged our blue collars for white ones. The situtation is the same.

Again you'd be happy if you could make your employees work longer hours for less pay right? Provided it had no negative repercussions for your or your business interests.

Not really. What makes you think so? All people/employers are exactly the same in your book?

Employees here are paid more than our competing businesses do. We also have high standards and only attract the people with the best qualifications, but we also pay them accordingly.
And yes, I do walk away with the biggest paycheck, since I started this business myself

[Deleted]

We've simply exchanged our blue collars for white ones. The situtation is the same.

Again you'd be happy if you could make your employees work longer hours for less pay right? Provided it had no negative repercussions for you or your business interests.

Sure. But it does have negative repercussions on society as a whole, when businesses are "racing to the bottom" when it comes to treating people decently. It has created a constant situation of desperation for so many people, and it is just not sustainable in the end. America is a ticking timebomb until things change. Ironically, the only benefit of treating that many people like shit, is that a few people can get a bit (or a lot) more "stuff" that they don't even need in the first place.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not an advocate of 6 hours / day. 8 hours is fine. Just pay people enough to give them valid options in life, instead of basically working their asses off just to be able to survive another day of misery and desperation.

[Deleted]

Not really. What makes you think so? All people/employers are exactly the same in your book?

Employees here are paid more than our competing businesses do. We also have high standards and only attract the people with the best qualifications, but we also pay them accordingly.
And yes, I do walk away with the biggest paycheck, since I started this business myself

If you have a talent-oriented business then you simply have no choice but to offer good incentives. If you did have a choice and it didn't negativelly effect the available talent pool i'm pretty sure you'd slash their wages or increased their hours to maximize personal profit.
You'd probably tell yourself you'd be forced to do it to stay competetive in the market. I mean why wouldn't you? Everyone else would so it would make no sense for you to pay your worker much more than anyone else for the same job even if you could afford to do so.

[Deleted]

If you have a talent-oriented business then you simply have no choice but to offer good incentives. If you did have a choice and it didn't negativelly effect the available talent pool i'm pretty sure you'd slash their wages or increased their hours to maximize personal profit.
You'd probably tell yourself you'd be forced to do it to stay competetive in the market. I mean why wouldn't you? Everyone else would so it would make no sense for you to pay your worker much more than anyone else for the same job even if you could afford to do so.

What if I told you that treating your employees well is important no matter what business you are running? Think about it for a moment. Okay, done? Did you consider employee loyalty? Employee productivity? Employee health? Business reputation? It should be obvious to anyone that it actually wouldn't be that expensive to treat your employees better, and what you get in return is so much more than the money invested.

[hellinter201]

People worked 12h+ in pre social rights era. Guess what, when they reduced the work hours, the productivity obviously increased; until they started to slack on these too, and the productivity went down, again.

Reduce work hours to 6h, increase productivity. Most people like changes, then after it gets incorporated into their lifestyle, they will start to slack again. After this, what would you do then? Keep reducing hours until 0h are worked in the week and they get free pay?

[Deleted]

If you have a talent-oriented business then you simply have no choice but to offer good incentives. If you did have a choice and it didn't negativelly effect the available talent pool i'm pretty sure you'd slash their wages or increased their hours to maximize personal profit.
You'd probably tell yourself you'd be forced to do it to stay competetive in the market. I mean why wouldn't you? Everyone else would so it would make no sense for you to pay your worker much more than anyone else for the same job even if you could afford to do so.

If I would a company like that, I would pay people minimum wage for sure. Low skill = low pay, that's life.

Of course I want to maximize profit, no matter the type of business. What else? Minimize it? What kind of goal is that?
Most of the profit we make here goes right back into the company account btw, which strengthens the company and by doing so also strengthens the job security of everyone here.

You can do all of this without exploiting people, believe it or not. For me it's all about balance.

[Deleted]

What if I told you that treating your employees well is important no matter what business you are running? Think about it for a moment. Okay, done? Did you consider employee loyalty? Employee productivity? Employee health? Business reputation? It should be obvious to anyone that it actually wouldn't be that expensive to treat your employees better, and what you get in return is so much more than the money invested.

Sure but in my hypothetical scenario if everyone got their wages cut and hours increased across the nation it would maintain the status quo, but the business owners would get a lot richer and the employes a lot poorer.

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If I would a company like that, I would pay people minimum wage for sure. Low skill = low pay, that's life.

Of course I want to maximize profit, no matter the type of business. What else? Minimize it? What kind of goal is that?
Most of the profit we make here goes right back into the company account btw, which strengthens the company and by doing so also strengthens the job security of everyone here.

You can do all of this without exploiting people, believe it or not. For me it's all about balance.

Not saying your a bad person or anything just debating a bit for fun.

Ok how about this (ridiculous) scenario: All your competitors simultaneously slash wages 50%. Lets also assume that your competitors all pocket the extra profits and don't try to leverage it for increased market share or whatever. Lets also say that no employees would leave their current employers.

Would you:
A: Also slash wages 50% and pocket the profits or re-invest in your company.
B: Keep paying your previously established fair wages.

[iceberg265]

Probably because corporate greed is off the chart in the US. Workers have been working harder and more productively for decades, and wages have declined.

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We've simply exchanged our blue collars for white ones. The situtation is the same.

Again you'd be happy if you could make your employees work longer hours for less pay right? Provided it had no negative repercussions for you or your business interests.

Not really, because I personally have these things called compassion and empathy.

[Deleted]

Sure but in my hypothetical scenario if everyone got their wages cut and hours increased across the nation it would maintain the status quo, but the business owners would get a lot richer and the employes a lot poorer.

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Not saying your a bad person or anything just debating a bit for fun.

Ok how about this (ridiculous) scenario: All your competitors simultaneously slash wages 50%. Lets also assume that your competitors all pocket the extra profits and don't try to leverage it for increased market share or whatever. Lets also say that no employees would leave their current employers.

Would you:
A: Also slash wages 50% and pocket the profits or re-invest in your company.
B: Keep paying your previously established fair wages.

Honestly, I would pull their best people out of their company right away, which will be easy since they would still get a full salary here. Luckily in my business branche, we compete on quality of service, so no one will compete on price. We even "won" a new contract from a major US firm while being the most expensive out of everyone competing.

Even if I wanted to slash wages, I couldn't go below minimum wage. I could cut back on hours I guess, but then you need more people to do the same job, which in the end is even more expensive due to all the extra costs (a salary is about half what an employee costs a company annually here).

I think situations like you describe happen mostly in factory work, retail or other low-skill work where people are very easily to replace. And then mostly in second world countries AND in the US

[Gheld]

Probably because corporate greed is off the chart in the US. Workers have been working harder and more productively for decades, and wages have declined.

It's because of libruls trying to increase wages. If they would just let employers pay their employees less and force them to work more hours then they would have more money left over to pay their employees more and give them more time off.

It's caled economick.

[Arthas242]

It's because of libruls trying to increase wages. If they would just let employers pay their employees less and force them to work more hours then they would have more money left over to pay their employees more and give them more time off.

It's caled economick.

you do realize most NORMAL/middle class voting conservatives think there should be a min wage increase....(i am not talking about the establishment in charge)

i think this is also why trump is doing well because it getting the middle and moves outwards in the political spectrum

it is just around 10-11 not 15 dollars the left wants, but at the rate we are going we mise well go higher by the time it passes with inflation......

[Fugus]

Yeah it's Walmarts fault that my friend doesn't work and lays around all day and plays video games and watches TV on the governments dime

No, but it is Walmart's fault that so many of their employees are working 32-40 hour per week while still being so broke they need welfare to survive on top of their paychecks which amounts to hundreds of millions if not billions per year in welfare to Walmart to offset their paychecks and subsidize their payrolls. And that isn't even getting into their direct subsidizes to the company or anything. Quite literally, after you take into account how much they officially pay in taxes annually and then take into account what is paid out to them and their employees, they are actually revenue neutral to the US if not a cost sink last I checked.

Your friend is the blip on the radar, the company you mentioned was one of the big problems that make him look like nothing by comparison.

Also, how is your friend able to sit around all day and play video games and eat on the government dime? Did he somehow manage to qualify for or scam for disability? And if that is the case, how? I have been on file for disability for years now while fighting the VA and both social security and the VA have tried to ignore their own doctors and their doctors medical opinions trying to deny me with social security trying to tell me that while my injuries can cause all my symptoms that they didn't think they were as bad as claimed and gave all supporting evidence of my case from the VA no medical weight basically trying to claim that since I didn't have every single possible symptom, they didn't believe I had the others bad enough to matter.

How did your friend get around that? And even if I get it from SSI, I would still cap out at $779 per month. So how is your friend mooching and living the high life off that system?

[Arthas242]

No, but it is Walmart's fault that so many of their employees are working 32-40 hour per week while still being so broke they need welfare to survive on top of their paychecks which amounts to hundreds of millions if not billions per year in welfare to Walmart to offset their paychecks and subsidize their payrolls. And that isn't even getting into their direct subsidizes to the company or anything. Quite literally, after you take into account how much they officially pay in taxes annually and then take into account what is paid out to them and their employees, they are actually revenue neutral to the US if not a cost sink last I checked.

Your friend is the blip on the radar, the company you mentioned was one of the big problems that make him look like nothing by comparison.

Also, how is your friend able to sit around all day and play video games and eat on the government dime? Did he somehow manage to qualify for or scam for disability? And if that is the case, how? I have been on file for disability for years now while fighting the VA and both social security and the VA have tried to ignore their own doctors and their doctors medical opinions trying to deny me with social security trying to tell me that while my injuries can cause all my symptoms that they didn't think they were as bad as claimed and gave all supporting evidence of my case from the VA no medical weight basically trying to claim that since I didn't have every single possible symptom, they didn't believe I had the others bad enough to matter.

How did your friend get around that? And even if I get it from SSI, I would still cap out at $779 per month. So how is your friend mooching and living the high life off that system?

not hard, i live at home with my parents and i do have my own car i bought and technically qualify for some welfare if i play with the wording and what not.....

basically it is being a lawyer and scamming the system for what it is worth..

AND NO I DO NOT DO IT, although i should......, but the good in me tells me no


hopefully i got this job i applied for in IT though , tired of living at home and want my own place, just need the income.

right now unemployed, but doing some side jobs for small cash, worked in retail for 5 years and got in management the last few months before i quit

[Fugus]

not hard, i live at home with my parents and i do have my own car i bought and technically qualify for some welfare if i play with the wording and what not.....

basically it is being a lawyer and scamming the system for what it is worth..

AND NO I DO NOT DO IT, although i should......, but the good in me tells me no


hopefully i got this job i applied for in IT though , tired of living at home and want my own place, just need the income.

right now unemployed, but doing some side jobs for small cash, worked in retail for 5 years and got in management the last few months before i quit

Outside of Food Stamps, what all could you get living with your parents? And even Food Stamps living with them would require jumping through hoops and in that situation you aren't mooching from the government so much as you are from your family.

Zenkai was talking about his friend basically living mooching off the government and I am wondering how.

As it stands for me with legitimate injuries I am forced to try and survive off $836 per month from the 50% the VA has me at now plus $99 per month in Food Stamps they say is all I qualify for and trying to stretch that out to last me a month while trying to provide for myself and even with the doctors on my side, the paper pushers are trying to ignore them to keep me low balled.

So wondering how his friend is making it as he claimed. And if his response involves him mooching off his family and friends and using the government for Food Stamps only, I can basically write him off as being full of it.

[Annoying]

We've simply exchanged our blue collars for white ones. The situtation is the same.

Again you'd be happy if you could make your employees work longer hours for less pay right? Provided it had no negative repercussions for you or your business interests.

While I agree that we've changed our blue collars for white ones, I don't agree that the situation is the same at all. Blue collar jobs had unions that guaranteed them raises based on seniority. That means you were guaranteed to climb the ladder. That guarantee isn't here for white collar jobs. Many people have to get "external promotions" meaning they have to leave their job for a higher paying job at another company. Tons of places won't raise you anything short of yearly inflation raises.

[Joresh]

I don't think America should be looking to Europe for business practices