Reason for persistence of content droughts in WoW?

[Osmeric]

And here we have straight up, unabashed, in your face trolling. A punishable offense on these forums and he gets by with nary a pat on the wrist. Watch as I get one though for calling it out.

You can't seem to wrap your mind around the obvious, can you?

Suppose you finished all the raids, got M Arch down, and had nothing more to do with raids until the next expansion. A content drought, right?

Not at all! Someone comes up to you and points out all the pet collecting, squirrel /loving, etc. you haven't done yet. No content drought, since there's all that content yet.

But, you complain, you don't want to do any of that!

"Doesn't matter," this person tells you. "It's content that you haven't done, therefore there is no content drought."

Of course that's absurd. If you don't want to do a piece of content, then, from your point of view, that content might as well not exist. It doesn't prevent you from seeing that there is, for you, a content drought.

My point is that in BC this was the case, with respect to raiding, for most players. They had no real chance to advance in raids, so either never started or quickly became blocked. Only a small minority moved beyond Kara.

If you say these people had no content drought, because T5 and T6 were there ahead of them, then I say you have no content drought, because you have pets to collect and squirrels to /love.

[jimmyjingle]

Ineptitude, but also politics. They don't want the game to be too good, or too reliable, as not every team is equally capable. For the sake of the company, no team or manager can be irreplaceable. If one team gets too good, or is too important to the flagship's success, they can be disruptive to the power structure of the company. So, they make the game "well enough", and call it a day, counting on one day releasing another smash hit and milking that in like fashion.

[ShiyoKozuki]

If you say these people had no content drought, because T5 and T6 were there ahead of them, then I say you have no content drought, because you have pets to collect and squirrels to /love.

Yeah collecting pets or having 2 brand new raid you've never done is equally as much content.
Yep.
YEP!!!!

[Daffan]

Yeah collecting pets or having 2 brand new raid you've never done is equally as much content.
Yep.
YEP!!!!

Especially when collecting pets, old mounts and transmog is the most soul draining 1 shot zerg junk on the planet.

[anaxie]

An expansion also takes a long time when you are introducing as many new systems and overhauls in legion and blizzards. Everyone thinks they got it so bad. Go look at the size of stuff other MMOs put out. And keep in mind WoW has been at it 12 years. But naaaaah its totally cool to bash WoW.

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Would sure be nice if they could still pull that off. The drought during Dragon Soul, SoO, and HFC sure as hell could have used a Sunwell.

Where before they used to be concerned about being behind schedule and providing consistent updates, now we just get a "Lawl, look at these idiots still paying during the drought. Carry on with the next xpac. Easy money gentlemen, easy money.."

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And here we have straight up, unabashed, in your face trolling. A punishable offense on these forums and he gets by with nary a pat on the wrist. Watch as I get one though for calling it out.

Unfortunately you for. I'm here now. BC was a drought the vast majority of plebs couldn't move beyond Kara or even get started into Kara.

Sunwell was NOT a filler patch that's something Halion or Zul Aman was.

Dragon Soul ONLY lasted 8 months what drought.

Fact check your shit

[The Flavour Cat]

I want to lean towards ineptitude because the expansions that actually had content between the last raid patches and the release date (Ignoring Classic) were TBC-WotLK and WotLK-Cata.
TBC had just 7 months between WotLK, and just under 4 months after 2.4 we had the pre-expansion event.
WotLK had 12 months before Cata, and that gave us a slew of content including RS (6 months after ICC), Gnome and Troll event almost 3 months after RS, and then the Elemental Unrest 2 freaking months after that.

So why can't Blizzard do shit like this again? I'm not gonna act like I know shit about how to run a video game company, but they seem to focused on putting games out sooner, and given the lack of content WoD offered I also want to think greed has something to do with it ('Nothing new there!' comments incoming?).

[Gilgameshh]

Go look at the size of stuff other MMOs put out. And keep in mind WoW has been at it 12 years. But naaaaah its totally cool to bash WoW.

It is okay to be upset with what we're getting because we pay monthly for it and after twelve years we should expect more, not less. What's your issue with people who are upset with WoW? Does everyone have to enjoy the game as much as you?

BC was a drought the vast majority of plebs couldn't move beyond Kara or even get started into Kara.

If what you say is true, I don't think the game would have grown like wildfire during this period. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it certainly had enough to keep people flocking in by the millions.

Sunwell was NOT a filler patch that's something Halion or Zul Aman was.

It most certainly was a filler patch. Are you neglecting the other stuff that was in that patch... like Isle of Quel'Danas? What is your definition of a filler patch if this wasn't a filler patch? Sunwell wasn't even supposed to be in TBC, according to Blizzard. It was a filler patch.

[Kagthul]

It most certainly was a filler patch. Are you neglecting the other stuff that was in that patch... like Isle of Quel'Danas? What is your definition of a filler patch if this wasn't a filler patch? Sunwell wasn't even supposed to be in TBC, according to Blizzard. It was a filler patch.

.. a "filler patch" that was planned from the get-go (and even shown at the reveal of TBC)?

It was not a filler patch. Blizzard has never said it was and has, in fact, said the exact opposite (and pointed out that it was shown during the TBC reveal).

What most people are missing in the "content drought" argument is the phrase "relevant content".

There is a difference between content and relevant content.

Yeah, i haven't run old raids and finished "raiding with leashes" - so what? That content isnt relevant. It doesn't advance my character in any way.

TBC didn't have a content drought - in fact, it had a surplus. So many people were stuck advancing through Badges of Justice that never cleared Kara or T5 - they still had TONS of relevant content to work through.

Right now.... since i dont raid beyond LFR, there is no relevant content for me to do. I'm already ~718 on all my toons (Valor upgrades, Kazaak drops, a few purchased BoEs, crafted, PvP pieces where relevant) so.. there's nothing for me to do. I'm only still "subbed" because i can pay for it with gold and have pre-bought time through October.

[kamal445]

60$ expansions every 2 years with 2 content patches. I would call that greed obviously.

[Osmeric]

60$ expansions every 2 years with 2 content patches. I would call that greed obviously.

You are talking as if greed is something bad in a for-profit corporation. Greed is their very reason for existing.

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Yeah, i haven't run old raids and finished "raiding with leashes" - so what? That content isnt relevant. It doesn't advance my character in any way.

TBC didn't have a content drought - in fact, it had a surplus. So many people were stuck advancing through Badges of Justice that never cleared Kara or T5 - they still had TONS of relevant content to work through.

Most players had no realistic prospect of ever doing that content, based on how they played the game. For them, it was irrelevant content.

[kamal445]

You are talking as if greed is something bad in a for-profit corporation. Greed is their very reason for existing.

That greed resulting in content drought and the inevitable loss of players. They're losing more than winning. No profit in there.

[Deleted]

If what you say is true, I don't think the game would have grown like wildfire during this period. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it certainly had enough to keep people flocking in by the millions.

But did the game grow because of the end game?
Remember that leveling back then could keep a new player occupied for months, and the game was still attracting new players.
But we know nothing about what the actual retention rates were, the sub numbers only shows us that players gained - players lost > 0, not how many were gained and not how many were lost, nor why they were lost.
Remember that by 2012 there had been 100 million accounts created, but the sub numbers peaked at 12M, which indicates that there has been a significant churn over the years.

[Kagthul]

800 Euros for a hardly improved iphone every other year with a profit margin of 50% is what I call greed, but I guess we all have our own triggers. Then again, it is the very reason why I have no Apple products. Now if I'd only find the motivation to be on the Apple (fan) forums and make thread after thread after thread what should be done about it, how it is not fair...but to make it truly hilarious I should be buying their products regularely for 10 years (and bitch all the time) or have stopped buying them and now have the compulsion to tell everyone.

People make this joke of "How can you tell a vegan is in the room - The vegan tells you". Works for ex-WoW players even better, eh?

As for "Greed" - I sure loved this speech when "Wall Street" was out.

Your entire argument falls apart: you dont NEED a new iPhone - your old one works perfectly well. You MUST buy the expansion to continue playing WoW with your friends/continue advancing your character.

[Donair]

If you say these people had no content drought, because T5 and T6 were there ahead of them, then I say you have no content drought, because you have pets to collect and squirrels to /love.

The biggest glaring difference here however is that WoW is not a primarily pet and squirrel loving game. It is and has always been an MMORPG with an end game focus on organized raiding with those massive amounts of multiple players.

If you got into WoW with no desire to participate with massive amounts of players online and instead just wanted to hug and love on squirrels, you got into the wrong game. I have no sympathy for anyone who didn't want to group up for the plethora of available dungeons and raids in TBC. That is simply their loss and I would have been more than happy to direct them to Animal Crossing on the Gamecube.

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Sunwell was added because WotLK was behind schedule (according to Ghostcrawler).

Sunwell was NOT a filler patch that's something Halion or Zul Aman was.

Fact check your shit

Tell that to the guy I was quoting. It was his claim. I was merely replying tongue in cheek. I don't give a shit what you want to call it, it was content to keep people busy 'til the next xpac. And we need more of that.

Fact check your quotes, son.

[Gilgameshh]

.. a "filler patch" that was planned from the get-go (and even shown at the reveal of TBC)?

It was not a filler patch. Blizzard has never said it was and has, in fact, said the exact opposite (and pointed out that it was shown during the TBC reveal).

What most people are missing in the "content drought" argument is the phrase "relevant content".

There is a difference between content and relevant content.

Yeah, i haven't run old raids and finished "raiding with leashes" - so what? That content isnt relevant. It doesn't advance my character in any way.

TBC didn't have a content drought - in fact, it had a surplus. So many people were stuck advancing through Badges of Justice that never cleared Kara or T5 - they still had TONS of relevant content to work through.

Right now.... since i dont raid beyond LFR, there is no relevant content for me to do. I'm already ~718 on all my toons (Valor upgrades, Kazaak drops, a few purchased BoEs, crafted, PvP pieces where relevant) so.. there's nothing for me to do. I'm only still "subbed" because i can pay for it with gold and have pre-bought time through October.

Fair enough. I've read that patch 2.4 was released because they put Black Temple out too early (the raid that was originally planned as the last raid), but there's no proof either way that I've been able to find. Could have sworn there was an interview with a developer that made mention of the fact that Sunwell wasn't originally planned to be the final raid in TBC, but I can't find anything so maybe I'm completely wrong.

I completely agree with your assessment of content relevance as it pertains to character progression, though. Patch 2.4 was definitely not a filler patch by those standards. I guess I meant to say that it was a patch (I thought) that was not originally meant for TBC, just to avoid a content drought. Again, I'm likely wrong either way.

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But did the game grow because of the end game?
Remember that leveling back then could keep a new player occupied for months, and the game was still attracting new players.
But we know nothing about what the actual retention rates were, the sub numbers only shows us that players gained - players lost > 0, not how many were gained and not how many were lost, nor why they were lost.
Remember that by 2012 there had been 100 million accounts created, but the sub numbers peaked at 12M, which indicates that there has been a significant churn over the years.

There's absolutely always been a churn since WoW's initial release. Again, I'm not saying the game was perfect in TBC, but it had plenty to keep people busy outside of raiding. I was a hardcore raider in TBC, but raiding was probably at the bottom of my top 10 things that took up my time in WoW. And, I only really played one character that I leveled at the start of the expansion. Not everyone will have the same experience, but there was plenty to do in TBC and it doesn't have to be end-game by way of dungeons/raids.

[Paarthurnax]

This video is scary how accurate and right on it was. Given it was made back in 2014. It perfectly describes whats going on now. Almost 2 years after the fact.

[Daffan]

An expansion also takes a long time when you are introducing as many new systems and overhauls in legion and blizzards. Everyone thinks they got it so bad. Go look at the size of stuff other MMOs put out. And keep in mind WoW has been at it 12 years. But naaaaah its totally cool to bash WoW.

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Unfortunately you for. I'm here now. BC was a drought the vast majority of plebs couldn't move beyond Kara or even get started into Kara.

Sunwell was NOT a filler patch that's something Halion or Zul Aman was.

Dragon Soul ONLY lasted 8 months what drought.

Fact check your shit

But "plebs" couldn't skip normal dungeons, heroic dungeons and professions weren't capped at 3 so they had stuff to work on. They couldn't log in and say, omg 700 ilvl pvp items and gg bored.

Yes Karazhan 10 to Gruul's 25 was a big problem, logistically speaking. But that don't mean there was a drought.

[Pann]

But "plebs" couldn't skip normal dungeons, heroic dungeons and professions weren't capped at 3 so they had stuff to work on. They couldn't log in and say, omg 700 ilvl pvp items and gg bored.

Yes Karazhan 10 to Gruul's 25 was a big problem, logistically speaking. But that don't mean there was a drought.

No, they logged in to lose 10 arena games for 154 ilvl PVP gear.

[Kagthul]

But "plebs" couldn't skip normal dungeons, heroic dungeons and professions weren't capped at 3 so they had stuff to work on. They couldn't log in and say, omg 700 ilvl pvp items and gg bored.

Yes Karazhan 10 to Gruul's 25 was a big problem, logistically speaking. But that don't mean there was a drought.

I have never been a raider and ive been playing since the original Beta.

At no point during TBC did i log in and feel that there was no way for me to advance my character. Yes, i got through Kara (sitting in on friends' raids when they were down a person or two) and did a few bosses in T5, but most of my advancement came from badges, crafting, subbing in a few PvP pieces, etc.

But i never, once, at any point in TBC (and very rarely in LK) logged in and was like "there is no relevant way for me to advance my character".

Thats the difference.

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No, they logged in to lose 10 arena games for 154 ilvl PVP gear.

Uh... kiddo.. you had to WIN 10 games to even get rated.

[Pann]

Uh... kiddo.. you had to WIN 10 games to even get rated.

Uh... no you didn't. A team started at 1500 rating only a few items required a rating and those slots could be filled with last season's gear.