Caitlyn Jenner: I have gotten more flack for being Republican than being Transgenderd

[Kronik85]

Our spectrum may not be as wide as that in Europe, but if you can't see a difference in these parties, then I'm not sure we could catch you up enough in this thread to discuss them.

Putting your own interests above the greater good is a very immature and selfish way to vote. A mature person votes in a way that creates the best overall society (in their view).

You explain the difference to me between a career politician who believes in nothing and a businessman spouting populist rhetoric they won't adhere to any of it the moment you let them through the door who in turn believes in nothing is?

Yet you insinuate that it's me that's the naive one. Good one.

[Tijuana]

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. The difference is in what people believe is best for society.

Not really, there are of course differences. But what these posters suggest, is that Jenner should disregard his opinion of what he thinks is best for society as a whole, and simply vote for the party that panders to his transgender status. I'm saying that is an immature way to vote and think.

[zenkai]

Except political parties are way more complex than a single issue. Sure, gender/sexual preferences are not among the Republican parties most understanding stances. However, the more important issue for Jenner may be something he/she agrees with the Republican party on.

Look at it this way, if your options were supporting a party that wanted to force you to pay millions more in taxes, and the other party wanted to change it so that you have to use the bathroom that matches your plumbing... which issue are you going to take a stand against? There are a multitude of issues/positions to associate yourself to others on. Doubtful you'll agree on all of them.

When you really stop and think about some of the social issues that these parties try to run presidential compains on and how it affects us in our daily lives, it typically has very little to no affect. At the same time, Jenner may be changing the minds of some Republicans by showing support for a party who is against something that's pretty personal in his/her life.

Good points, it's nice to read an intelligent thought now and then.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Jenner is loaded, tons of money, and is one of those people who so desperately loves their money, that they love it above personal rights. That's all there is to it. Republicans love to point to gay, trans, black, latino etc. Republicans as some kind of diversion to the fact that the party is filled with racists, bigots and other people who treat people not like them as lesser. In the end, the one thing that unites Republicans seems to be hate for taxation. That doesn't mean those certain sects of the party are suddenly trans or gay friendly.

[Tijuana]

You explain the difference to me between a career politician who believes in nothing and a businessman spouting populist rhetoric they won't adhere to any of it the moment you let them through the door who in turn believes in nothing is?

Yet you insinuate that it's me that's the naive one. Good one.

I didn't insinuate anything. I'm trying to speak to the nuance of how a person votes, and you are failing to get the point, even though I have explained it six ways from Sunday.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Isn't Bruce going to become Bruce again?

[Stacyrect]

I'm not sure I understand. Republicans aren't known for being very open minded about these things, in fact it's quite the opposite. It's like a black guy was member of KKK.

It's really how you look at things.

Is it racist to say minorities are incapable of competing with their racial counterparts and need special legislation to even the playing field (Democratic stance)?

Or is it racist to say minorites are perfectly capable of competing with their racial counterparts and do not need special legislation to even the playing field (Republican stance)?

Their are racist people in both parties. It's no secret that hate groups lean towards conservatism because small government means less help for special interests which they are against. Dems are "Not in my backyard" racists as they will typically champion these ideals until racial/cultural clash's begin to hurt them and then their tune changes.

[Moralgy]

Is it racist to say african americans are incapable competing with their racial counterparts and need special legislation to even the playing field (Democratic stance)?
.

That generally isn't the stance. It isn't that some minority can't compete, it is that some group will not let that minority compete due to some dislike for them that causes the legislation to be needed.

[Tijuana]

It's really how you look at things.

Is it racist to say african americans are incapable competing with their racial counterparts and need special legislation to even the playing field (Democratic stance)?

Or is it racist to say african americans are perfectly capable of competing with their racial counterparts and do not need special legislation to even the playing field (Republican stance)?

Their are racist people in both parties. It's no secret that hate groups lean towards conservatism because small government means less help for special interests which they are against. Dems are "Not in my backyard" racists as they will typically champion these ideals until racial/cultural clash's begin to hurt them and then their tune changes.

These posters aren't going to be able to follow that. They see partisan pandering as the only thing that matters. Its narcissistic on a previously unheard of level. "I like this politician because he says he likes me more than the other guy says he likes me." Me me me me, what about me though?

[Hammerfest]

If you go and take pills for publicity stunt, and then transition back a while later, then you weren't a transgender to begin with.

There's no reason to believe it was a publicity stunt at the time he chose to modify himself. In this article, a former Johns Hopkins psychiatrist-in-chief stated that transgender is a mental disorder and that those who had the procedure "were 'satisfied' with the operation 'but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.'" It seems that in feeling regret over the procedure that he underwent, Bruce Jenner represents a sizable portion of those who consider themselves transgender.

[Finith]

It's really how you look at things.

Is it racist to say african americans are incapable competing with their racial counterparts and need special legislation to even the playing field (Democratic stance)?

Or is it racist to say african americans are perfectly capable of competing with their racial counterparts and do not need special legislation to even the playing field (Republican stance)?

Their are racist people in both parties. It's no secret that hate groups lean towards conservatism because small government means less help for special interests which they are against. Dems are "Not in my backyard" racists as they will typically champion these ideals until racial/cultural clash's begin to hurt them and then their tune changes.

They would argue the protections are necessary because so many people are in fact racist, and the only thing that stops them for enacting policies on the basis of their bigotry is that by law they cannot.

You could argue as the supreme court did when it struck down the key part of the voting rights act that racism is dead in America. This position is laughable, the moment that legislation passed several of those states almost immediately ran to enact voter ID laws that have a grossly disproportionate affect on minorities to combat against an imaginary problem. It's so much easier to win a district when you get to draw the map and decide who votes isn't it?

Identity politics works both ways unfortunately, the meandering of the regressive left is no more destructive then the pandering on the right to white fears.

[Moralgy]

There's no reason to believe it was a publicity stunt at the time he chose to modify himself. In this article, a former Johns Hopkins psychiatrist-in-chief stated that transgender is a mental disorder and that those who had the procedure "were 'satisfied' with the operation 'but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.'" It seems that in feeling regret over the procedure that he underwent, Bruce Jenner represents a sizable portion of those who consider themselves transgender.

No

http://link.springer.com/article/10....814364#/page-1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9570489

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473463

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19665118

5%, and 10% at most. Get out of here with that bullshit. Those starting earlier in life have been said to be higher, but those starting after 20 get those results.

[Tijuana]

They would argue the protections are necessary because so many people are in fact racist, and the only thing that stops them for enacting policies on the basis of their bigotry is that by law they cannot.

You could argue as the supreme court did when it struck down the key part of the voting rights act that racism is dead in America. This position is laughable, the moment that legislation passed several of those states almost immediately imposed to enact voter ID laws that have a grossly disproportionate affect on minorities to combat against an imaginary problem. It's so much easier to win a district when you get to draw the map and decide who votes isn't it?

Identity politics works both ways unfortunately, the meandering of the regressive left is no more destructive then the pandering on the right to white fears.

The voting rights act was hugely flawed, and it was long overdue to be struck down. The law contained no tests for progress, and it was going to literally last forever in the counties it addressed. Some of these counties are in New York, for example. Does anyone think racism when they think New York? There are other complexities at work here, beyond "if a voting rights act is struck down, that means voting rights no longer exist".

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No

http://link.springer.com/article/10....814364#/page-1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9570489

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473463

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19665118

5%, and 10% at most. Get out of here with that bullshit. Those starting earlier in life have been said to be higher, but those starting after 20 get those results.

There is no way it even remotely approaches 5% of the population. Figures for homosexuals are only around 3% who self proclaim. Obviously transgender numbers are lower than that.

[Moralgy]

There is no way it even remotely approaches 5% of the population. Figures for homosexuals are only around 3% who self proclaim. Obviously transgender numbers are lower than that.

We are talking regret in transgender individuals, not the percentage of the population.

[Kronik85]

I didn't insinuate anything. I'm trying to speak to the nuance of how a person votes, and you are failing to get the point, even though I have explained it six ways from Sunday.

You haven't explained anything at all. You made an appeal to authority that the founding fathers were afraid people would vote for who ever gave them the most stuff. You've not explained why this is a bad thing.

If you were below the breadline and voted for George Bush because you believed in trickle down economics you didn't do yourself or the USA any favours. Voting for what you believe is the greater good doesn't inherently make anything better or make you a higher quality of voter.

[Tijuana]

We are talking regret in transgender individuals, not the percentage of the population.

Oops, my fault then.

[Moralgy]

Oops, my fault then.

It happens, we all misread things from time to time!

[pixelated senpai]

How is he not in jail after killing those people in a car wreck is what I want to know.

Money makes the world go round

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I can't believe you'd throw Caitlyn under the bus like that

These are the correct headlines you should be espousing:

- "Oppression of women is so bad, Jenner had to go back to being a man"
- "Harassed and shamed by online misogynists, gamers and shows like South Park, Jenner forced to detransition"
- "Conservative males force transgender rights back 10 years"
- "Patriarchy still too hateful to allow a brave hero like Jenner to be herself"


[Infracted]

That south park episode was hilarious though

[Finith]

The voting rights act was hugely flawed, and it was long overdue to be struck down. The law contained no tests for progress, and it was going to literally last forever in the counties it addressed. Some of these counties are in New York, for example. Does anyone think racism when they think New York? There are other complexities at work here, beyond "if a voting rights act is struck down, that means voting rights no longer exist".

You'll notice I neither defended that law or spoke of its merits, I merely indicated their overarching argument for its relegation to the dustbin. How those counties and states reacted speaks for itself, and is not up for debate. The destructive tendencies of gerrymandering and idiotic ID laws are self-evident. All these policies will continue to do is drum up anger and outrage that winds up being dangerous, unfocused and misplaced.

[Stacyrect]

They would argue the protections are necessary because so many people are in fact racist, and the only thing that stops them for enacting policies on the basis of their bigotry is that by law they cannot.

You could argue as the supreme court did when it struck down the key part of the voting rights act that racism is dead in America. This position is laughable, the moment that legislation passed several of those states almost immediately ran to enact voter ID laws that have a grossly disproportionate affect on minorities to combat against an imaginary problem. It's so much easier to win a district when you get to draw the map and decide who votes isn't it?

Identity politics works both ways unfortunately, the meandering of the regressive left is no more destructive then the pandering on the right to white fears.

That argument would be true if their was a pattern of the bare minimum of women and minorities in companies. This is not the case, I'd venture to say that the majority of companies have a very diverse workforce well above the threshold.

Nothing is wrong with having to prove who you are to vote. You have to have ID to get cigarettes, booze, an apartment, a job, a bank account, drive a car, leave the country. As a person who recently went through the Wisconsin voting process with a out of state ID, it was very easy and simple and took less then 5 minutes of extra time out of my day to complete it. Personally, I think it's extremely racist to suggest that minorities cannot complete this process. Saying it disproportionately effects them is akin to saying they are not responsible enough individuals to hold on to a birth certificate, a piece of mail, their social security card, and a government issued ID and special concessions need to be had because they cannot be expected to live up to the same rules as everyone else.

I agree that the far left is just as dangerous as the far right.