Is it to late for a new player to start playing FF14.

[Edge-]

Well, when you run a low level roulette you are being nice and helping new players get through their story quests and you get rewarded with current currency. When there is a new player, you get rewarded even more currency. If there were not rewards like that, people would not run the old content and if there was not the bonus for a new player they would just run it together with friends and not even consider just queing and helping new players that need it.

That...makes no sense. I mean, the bonus reward for doing a dungeon with a new player is nice, but you can't really get new players intentionally, nor does that reward you for being "nice". Just for doing a dungeon with a new player. You could be a total dick the whole time and still get the reward. As for the reward for running older content, that's something many games have. And again, that's not behavioral rewards. That's just the developers working to keep the game populated across multiple level ranges, which is good.

WoW rewards people for being jerks because if you exclude the new helpless player, you have a better shot at the rewards for yourself and it takes less time. Unlike FFXIV where they are encouraged to go help you with end-game currencies.

Erm, rewards in WoW are personal now. So a new player has the same chances to get whatever drops (at least in the automated queues) as a veteran player that doesn't need any of the gear. In pugs manually put together nothing is really different compared to FFXIV as far as I remember.

Nothing you brought up is designing around promoting one type of player behavior over another. It's just designed around getting players into certain types of content. That's great and all, and I like MMO's that provide relevant rewards for doing older content to keep the pool of players doing activities healthy across the game, but that does nothing to alter player behavior towards others.

[Lathais]

That...makes no sense. I mean, the bonus reward for doing a dungeon with a new player is nice, but you can't really get new players intentionally, nor does that reward you for being "nice". Just for doing a dungeon with a new player. You could be a total dick the whole time and still get the reward. As for the reward for running older content, that's something many games have. And again, that's not behavioral rewards. That's just the developers working to keep the game populated across multiple level ranges, which is good.



Erm, rewards in WoW are personal now. So a new player has the same chances to get whatever drops (at least in the automated queues) as a veteran player that doesn't need any of the gear. In pugs manually put together nothing is really different compared to FFXIV as far as I remember.

Nothing you brought up is designing around promoting one type of player behavior over another. It's just designed around getting players into certain types of content. That's great and all, and I like MMO's that provide relevant rewards for doing older content to keep the pool of players doing activities healthy across the game, but that does nothing to alter player behavior towards others.

So going back to help old players do old content is mean? I mean, seriously, in WoW, what incentive is there for players to go run Ragefire Chasm or Wailing Caverns? Something new players see and want to do. What WoW does now is, when you buy a new copy of the game, you just get a character that is leveled past that. It is encouraging ignoring that old content entirely. It's true that other MMOs are doing this now too, and I'll be the first to admit I have no idea what WoW is doing these days. However, it's one of the ways FFXIV and other games encourage being nice, by incentivizing old content so vets actually help new players. Since you are getting an extra reward for that new player to be there, you are more likely to be nice to him since if you're a jerk he could leave and you won't get your bonus.

[Edge-]

So going back to help old players do old content is mean?

I...never said that. Where did you get that from? It's neutral, because it's not behavioral. You can go back to do that content for the personal/selfish rewards and be a total dick. Or you can be friendly. The game doesn't differentiate.

I mean, seriously, in WoW, what incentive is there for players to go run Ragefire Chasm or Wailing Caverns?

None. But that's not behavioral, either. That's just Blizzard not creating systems that reward players for engaging in older content, or at least since they now have Timewalking not expanding it.

Something new players see and want to do. What WoW does now is, when you buy a new copy of the game, you just get a character that is leveled past that. It is encouraging ignoring that old content entirely.

Yup! But again, that's not behavioral. That's neutral. We're talking about folks being nice/mean here, at least that's what I thought we were talking about.

However, it's one of the ways FFXIV and other games encourage being nice, by incentivizing old content so vets actually help new players.

This is not true. There is no behavioral reward or punishment for being nice/a jackass, really. Hell, the drama around the mentor system alone when it was implemented is proof enough of that. From everything I saw, the system that was designed to pair up experienced players with new players to help them learn the game led to experienced players harassing and insulting the new players just as often as not.

Again, because there weren't really any behavioral rewards/punishments to modify actual player interactions/behavior.

Since you are getting an extra reward for that new player to be there, you are more likely to be nice to him since if you're a jerk he could leave and you won't get your bonus.

Unlikely, especially if they're a dps who has to wait in longer queues. Sure, it's a risk you take but it's a pretty minimal one since the bonus reward, while nice, is hardly make or break.

[Aruhen]

Eh the new player bonus does help ever so slightly. I don't think it directly helps quell the bad behavior but I think it helps deter some of it and I think that's the best you can probably ask for. People are jerks but as long as they keep it to themselves then its okay.

Unlikely, especially if they're a dps who has to wait in longer queues. Sure, it's a risk you take but it's a pretty minimal one since the bonus reward, while nice, is hardly make or break.

This isn't really true for the high level content. For example I do my MSQ roulette every day for the relic weapon. I'm happy with the quick I get 120 but I"m even more happy that I get an extra 100 with a new player. That's almost double. The same goes for most of the dungeons as the new player bonus is quite substantial.

[Gibblewink]

It is basic psychology: You get a reward when there is a new player in the group. So new players are also regarded as a bonus, not just the hindrance that their inexperience might pose. And since you have to finish the run with the new player in order to get the bonus, the harsh "Get out of my group noob!" attitude becomes counterproductive: If he leaves you don't get those Tomestones.

[Lathais]

It is basic psychology: You get a reward when there is a new player in the group. So new players are also regarded as a bonus, not just the hindrance that their inexperience might pose. And since you have to finish the run with the new player in order to get the bonus, the harsh "Get out of my group noob!" attitude becomes counterproductive: If he leaves you don't get those Tomestones.

See, he gets it. I don't get how that is so hard to understand. I'm not saying FFXIV is the only game that does it either, but they took something that is generally regarded as negative(noob player slowing you down) and associated something positive with it. Therefore, people perceive them as a good thing now. By giving something generally regarded as negative something positive, your attitude is automatically different, for most people.

[Demoneq]

What's the situation with rolling a character on what works as RP servers? (if I recall, Balmung and some other one at least?)

Are they still locked? Is there more of them now? (last time I checked was quite long ago, don't really remember when)

Can you at least roll new characters there, if you have one already?
(I could be okay with buying one transfer to get there, but not for every new character - I know you can have all classes on one toon, but I might want more chars for RP purposes)

Also how are the queues there?

[Kazgrel]

What's the situation with rolling a character on what works as RP servers? (if I recall, Balmung and some other one at least?)

Are they still locked? Is there more of them now? (last time I checked was quite long ago, don't really remember when)

Can you at least roll new characters there, if you have one already?
(I could be okay with buying one transfer to get there, but not for every new character - I know you can have all classes on one toon, but I might want more chars for RP purposes)

Also how are the queues there?

Balmung is still a nightmare to get a new character created on. You need to be online within 5 minutes of whatever the window is when it unlocks (which for me is around 5 AM, I believe). There is technically a queue, but what I've found is I'll go to log in, get a prompt that the server is full, hit cancel, immediately log in again, and boom, I'm in.

I had to do a paid transfer to get onto here, but I will say it's been worth it. There's almost always a crapload of people online, whether you're browsing party finder, walking through towns, or out in the world. Also next to zero gil seller spam, which is a plague on less populated servers. Well worth the price of the transfer; I would say do that with one character then maybe later on try to create new characters for RP.

[Demoneq]

You need to be online within 5 minutes of whatever the window is when it unlocks (which for me is around 5 AM, I believe).

That's 5 AM which time, EU, US, other? And if you're non-American, how's the latency there? (I'm in EU, London+1/Paris time)

I'd consider picking a server in EU data center (there is one now, right?) and not a locked one, but since RP is a big part of MMOs for me, it'd have to be one with a lot of RPers (though my friend is also playing on Balmung, or at least was, so unless she quit, that's an extra reason to pick it).

[Kazgrel]

That's 5 AM which time, EU, US, other? And if you're non-American, how's the latency there? (I'm in EU, London+1/Paris time)

I'd consider picking a server in EU data center (there is one now, right?) and not a locked one, but since RP is a big part of MMOs for me, it'd have to be one with a lot of RPers (though my friend is also playing on Balmung, or at least was, so unless she quit, that's an extra reason to pick it).

I'm in US Eastern time (GMT -5). My b, I usually mention that when I post a time.

[Demoneq]

Means about 11 am for me. Not good, because I'm working then, unless it's daily? (could try on weekends in such case)

Hm. Do FF servers use DST? According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylig...bdivisions.png most of US does, but Japan doesn't, hence the confusion.

[HAcoreRD]

I found the FF14 community is more friendly to newer players. There's hours of content to do before the first expanbsion, especially if you don't skip cutscenes, but the story is just too good to pass up.

Give it a go, but buy just A realm reborn until you beat Vanilla, or decide if you love it

[Sorrior]

I found the FF14 community is more friendly to newer players. There's hours of content to do before the first expanbsion, especially if you don't skip cutscenes, but the story is just too good to pass up.

Give it a go, but buy just A realm reborn until you beat Vanilla, or decide if you love it

I always suggest level 49 not to miss and xp

[Delekii]

I found the FF14 community is more friendly to newer players. There's hours of content to do before the first expanbsion, especially if you don't skip cutscenes, but the story is just too good to pass up.

Give it a go, but buy just A realm reborn until you beat Vanilla, or decide if you love it

I'm going to play the devil's advocate as the player who skips all the story in games that doesn't appeal to me and go on to say that the story in FFXIV is just as formulaic trash as any other MMORPG to date, and if you are looking for an amazing story, you shouldn't really go to any MMO game that is out thus far.

FFXIV story gets a lot of hype, and as a result I went back to the game expecting to be wowed. I was thoroughly, thoroughly disappointed, and after a few days (literally, days) of running around the world and skipping cutscenes, I was hugely relieved to get through it all and access what I actually wanted to do (this was pre expansion and I was catching up on a long time of missed updates). Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more if it was spaced out over a period of time, and I'm not sure if there are any mechanisms in place to skip content that used to be required before the expansion, but holy crap. I cannot imagine going through all of the questline from 1-50, THEN going on to catch up on all the patch content (which is where I started), THEN leveling up again, THEN being in current content. It would frustrate the absolute shit out of me. Hopefully that's not how it plays out.

To each their own; I'm sure the majority of people love it. I just think the story in this MMO is no better than in any other, and certainly doesn't hold a candle to most top tier single player rpg games out there.

[Azmoden]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate as the player who skips all the story in games that doesn't appeal to me and go on to say that the story in FFXIV is just as formulaic trash as any other MMORPG to date [...]


[...] and after a few days (literally, days) of running around the world and skipping cutscenes, I was hugely relieved to get through it all and access what I actually wanted to do.

[...]

So you're skipping the story, and complain it's bad? OK then... Thanks for your input. I myself bought Uncharted 4, haven't had a chance to play it yet, but I can tell you already the story freaking sucks.

[Lathais]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate as the player who skips all the story in games that doesn't appeal to me and go on to say that the story in FFXIV is just as formulaic trash as any other MMORPG to date, and if you are looking for an amazing story, you shouldn't really go to any MMO game that is out thus far.

FFXIV story gets a lot of hype, and as a result I went back to the game expecting to be wowed. I was thoroughly, thoroughly disappointed, and after a few days (literally, days) of running around the world and skipping cutscenes, I was hugely relieved to get through it all and access what I actually wanted to do (this was pre expansion and I was catching up on a long time of missed updates). Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more if it was spaced out over a period of time, and I'm not sure if there are any mechanisms in place to skip content that used to be required before the expansion, but holy crap. I cannot imagine going through all of the questline from 1-50, THEN going on to catch up on all the patch content (which is where I started), THEN leveling up again, THEN being in current content. It would frustrate the absolute shit out of me. Hopefully that's not how it plays out.

To each their own; I'm sure the majority of people love it. I just think the story in this MMO is no better than in any other, and certainly doesn't hold a candle to most top tier single player rpg games out there.

So you watched the early stuff and then skipped all the late stuff. That's like reading the first half of a book, where they are still setting up the environment and getting you used to how the world works and introducing characters and then not reading the second half where everything comes together and the real story is and then saying the book sucks.

You have to set the stage before you can get to the real meat of the story. I am sorry you chose to skip it, it really was pretty great, but different strokes for different folks. Some people really don't like the stories presented in JRPGs and that's ok too.

[Delekii]

So you're skipping the story, and complain it's bad? OK then... Thanks for your input. I myself bought Uncharted 4, haven't had a chance to play it yet, but I can tell you already the story freaking sucks.

Speed read/context/already know what its going to say/post-cutscene information given/etc etc etc. I can tell you the entire story start to finish if you want, despite the fact that I skipped half of most of the cutscenes. That's what happens when story is formulaic. There aren't any twists or turns, the characters are very shallow and stereotyped if you have played previous FF-type games.

[Kazgrel]

I personally found the story rather meh-ish until around lvl 38-40ish. The portion of it involving Titan (specifically the lead up to battling Titan) was stupid as hell. After that, though, things started to get a bit more serious and it only continued to pick up steam.

[Felancelan]

It's hard to say, you do need to complete the story before you get into the expansion content so I wouldn't suggest buying the expansion off the bat. I would find someone to do the mentor system with. I enjoyed the game but it didn't feel responsive enough (don't know if it's my set up or their servers, wow and gw2 work fine though).

If you haven't I would try gw2 too the base game is free now that the expansion is out.

[Sorrior]

It's hard to say, you do need to complete the story before you get into the expansion content so I wouldn't suggest buying the expansion off the bat. I would find someone to do the mentor system with. I enjoyed the game but it didn't feel responsive enough (don't know if it's my set up or their servers, wow and gw2 work fine though).

If you haven't I would try gw2 too the base game is free now that the expansion is out.

It is also a money pit.

And I generally suggest at lovel 49