The change that will make me quit

[Beardyface]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6264?page=4#72

If this change goes live I quit this game. Flat out. I've never seen developers so out of touch with their own game. It's mind boggling.

From Watcher:

An area that has appeared to need a bit more friction, however, is actually talent changes. Especially with no reagent cost at all now, it can be all too easy to activate AoE talents before larger packs of enemies in a dungeon, and then switch back to single-target talents before a lieutenant or a boss. Or someone might switch to a passive movement-speed talent when traversing an area, and then back to something functional before entering combat. At that point, we're often hardly talking about a meaningful choice at all, but rather a nuisance of extra button-presses or UI navigation before you can use your desired talents.

And so, alongside removing the respec cost, that same upcoming build will also restrict the ability to change talents when away from a safe area (defined as an area that provides the Rested state). We currently plan to give Scribes a recipe to craft a consumable Tome that can be dropped in order to allow all nearby players to retalent freely for a time - particularly useful for group play.

They design bosses in raids and dungeons that require us to change our talents to perform optimally, then take that away from us.

Fuck these guys.

---edit---

10 pages. Wow. Just a little more info I should have included in the first post. Quoting myself:

I suppose I should have named the thread "the straw that broke the camel's back."

If the talent trees were designed so they were more passive, or so that each tier did a similar thing a different way (ala MoP) this wouldn't be a big issue, but with the way talent trees are designed, it's huge.

The whole Legion pitch involved being able to change talents at any time, and all the raid (and especially dungeon bosses) are designed to have to make you switch talents if you want to play optimally. What makes these encounters so much fun the way they are now is that we can wipe on a fight, switch up our talents to try a new idea, and push ahead again. I'd love to be able to do that without having to argue with people about when to use the inscription item.

There are hundreds of ways they could address this current non-issue, and as always, they pick the most convoluted one. It's literally unbelievable.

They've already made talents meaningful - they're in rows. You can't pick them all - just one per row.

Specs are also meaningful - the artifact weapons ensure that, for a while at least, you are going to stick to one main spec. I don't mind the gold cost for switching specs, but this solution to the talent "problem" is so ham-fisted it makes me wonder if the devs really have any business doing what they do.

It's a real shame - the content in this expansion looks really fun. I was really looking forward to Mythic+, but how much fun will that be if you have to drop a tome 5 times when you're fighting a timer?

Now that the class I main has a stupid artifact ability, has little control over their resource generation, and generates less resources the more I gear up within a tier, I'm really starting to wonder why I even bother.

It's less the change itself and more the fact that this, coupled with a hundred other ham-fisted, pants-on-head stupid decisions, is proof that these guys have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

So, for all of you folks so kindly showing me the door: what change could the devs make that would finally may you stop and say "enough!"?

This thread has nothing to do with the change itself. It has to do with what the change tells us about the devs. If they really are this obtuse, what else might they change?

What if they took all the interaction between Fury's abilities away? Would that do it? "Right," you say, "they won't do that." No? There's precedent. See WoD Arms.

What if they redesigned Arms to be so counterintuitive that absolutely no one, including the top Arms players in the world, could figure out their intent? "Pfft. Okay," you say. I point you to Legion Brewmaster.

What if they designed a class that actually gets weaker the more gear you get during any raid tier? "Oh, come on," you say, "that's just ludicrous." Really? Are you sure about that? Because that's how Protection Warrior works.

What if they took away flying? Oops, they did that, didn't they? Anyone remember what happened? Droves of people threatened to quit over that. Many did. Flying is cosmetic. It does nothing to change the gameplay. If we could never fly again I would care not a whit.

Or how about bringing back hit, expertise and defense rating? I give you: Rage from Damage Taken.

These devs have done nothing for the past three years but make bad decisions, starting with "your class doesn't need to be fun on a dummy" and ending with the change that started this thread.

When are you going to say "enough! I'm wasting my time with these guys!"?

[Glaziola]

I dont know wtf is going on in their minds...

[Shiftyfish]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6264?page=4#72

If this change goes live I quit this game. Flat out. I've never seen developers so out of touch with their own game. It's mind boggling.

From Watcher:



They design bosses in raids and dungeons that require us to change our talents to perform optimally, then take that away from us.

Fuck these guys.

Bye /10chars

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't really care for switching talents on boss fights. I don't really understand that design, I understand if it fits optimally to beat the encounter but I feel it's kind of an artificial game mechanic honestly. OP, I kinda understand your complaint but you didn't really explain why you are upset.

[Divinexve]

Oh well Kappa

[Tijuana]

I'll bring the pitchforks, someone else get the torches.

This idea would have made a tiny bit of sense if they had not already designed Legion to be a system where all of your AoE abilities come from choosing talents that would be a DPS loss if used on single target fights. This idea they propose negates the things that made the current talent system superior to the talent trees.

[tuesday the paladin]

So instead of having to have a stack of tome of the clear mind we'll have to have a stack of new item scribes make that allows us to change talents. Sounds like virtually no change in practice.

[Socialhealer]

So instead of having to have a stack of tome of the clear mind we'll have to have a stack of new item scribes make that allows us to change talents. Sounds like virtually no change in practice.

until these new items require 10 herbs each and because of inflation and no herb gardens and no GR trader herbs are 30g each and not 1-2g, and it's 300g to change a talent, then all the cry babies moaning about 65/78g to respec will quit because thats all their gold rofl.

[Irian]

I get the feeling they'll amend that to also allow them to be changed in raid boss encounters, or make the tomes relatively easy to acquire.

Either way, if you'd miss out on an entire game purely because you can't change your talents easily then you're the type of person that I would be happy to see leave anyway. There's a thing called "adapting" that I think would work well for you because you have apparently not figured it out. I wasn't particularly happy about the idea of hearthing to change talents per boss but if that's the design they're going for then I'll figure out a way to work around it.

You and countless others need to understand the difference between "out of touch" and "design differs from what I want".

[Tijuana]

So instead of having to have a stack of tome of the clear mind we'll have to have a stack of new item scribes make that allows us to change talents. Sounds like virtually no change in practice.

"But, in terms of the materials required, we're thinking of something that's more aimed at groups, and probably not the sort of thing an individual is likely to carry a stack of and use freely."

^ So its like tomes only prohibitively expensive. Great.

[Maltore]

I agree, it's a bad idea. But I don't think that will be the final solution carried into live. Don't go hyperbolic just yet.

Also, why is this in the Warrior forum?

[SidFwuff]

"But, in terms of the materials required, we're thinking of something that's more aimed at groups, and probably not the sort of thing an individual is likely to carry a stack of and use freely."

^ So its like tomes only prohibitively expensive. Great.

Or feasts instead of individually food buffs?

If you're raiding a five man or LFR you won't have time to swap talents anyway with people chain pulling (and being bored).

If you're doing organized raiding, the entire guild can afford the talent swaps easily.

If you're out in the world doing dailies, visit an Inn for a free swap.

EDIT:

I'm actually for this- there's truth to what they're saying. If you swap to the optimized talent for every encounter, what's the point of having talents at all? Might as well give all talents baseline and it become a question of which abilities you use depending on the fight.

[psyquest]

If I understood it right, goal is to not be able to change it instantly while you can instantly change in safe zones (even if ability is on cooldown). Anyway, go to next Blizz post. Don't blindly hate m8.

yes, so you go in raid or instance and if you dont have the shitty comp you need to heart out to the capital to respec and get ported back... yeah great.

please read before dismissing the guy.

Also, you are questing, queue pop, cant change talent, need to go capital: great, people will definitely wait for you.


this change is STUPID and they are out of touch if they think it is any good.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

We don't want players to get bogged down by bureaucratic red tape...

So we're adding more bureaucratic red tape!

^_^Hope this helps! With love.^_^

-The Devs

[Deleted]

After 10+ years and becoming a giant themepark Blizz should just go nuts and remove ALL limitations: tauren rogues, undead paladins, free talent change all the time out of combat whereever you are, free spec change goes the same, no transmog weapons limitations (1H<->2H) transmog set change wherever you are, Simplify stats that you can DD, Tank and Heal with the same gear etc etc..

[Schattenlied]

I don't even think there should be ANY talents that give more or less AoE together in one row... Talent choices should be ALL about playstyle choice, a talent row that has an option of giving more or less AoE just trivializes it and pigeon holes you into using a specific talent for a specific fight...

If you want a talent that only gives better ST damage, it should be in a row with other talents that only give ST damage, If you want a talent that gives AoE damage, it should be in a row that with other talents that only give AoE damage... Otherwise there is no "choice".

Basically what I'm getting at here is there shouldn't ever be a need to switch talents before a boss, because talents should all be playstyle, not "well this boss has adds, I guess I need to swap 5 talent rows to my AoE shit".. That is illogical and terrible design, esepcially since they keep saying they want talents to be all about choice and variety... But the system they gave us is the exact opposite of that, there is a cookie cutter build for every fight, there is no choice, and there is no variety.

For example http://i.imgur.com/pYh48HE.png

[Gryzvwald]

I don't really care for switching talents on boss fights. I don't really understand that design, I understand if it fits optimally to beat the encounter but I feel it's kind of an artificial game mechanic honestly. OP, I kinda understand your complaint but you didn't really explain why you are upset.

That's not even the point. The current system is fine. They are creating an issue where none exists, because they just can't fucking help themselves.

[Beardyface]

The reasons to be upset should be obvious.

"Well, we're not meeting the AoE DPS requirement on this boss, and we've run out of Inscription items, since they cast 500g a piece, so we need people to hearth back to town and change talents. We don't have a lock, so we'll take a 10 minute break while everyone does that."

"We'd love to bring you to this Mythic+ dungeon run, <insert class here>, but your single target is only good with so and so talents, and your AoE is only good with so and so talents, while <insert class here> doesn't need to switch talents to be good at AoE and single target, so we're bringing the other class. Oh, you can switch specs to a spec that can do both without changing talents? Sweet. Is your artifact tree in the other spec maxed out? No? Oh, sorry. We're going with the other guy."

"LFM Melee DPS. Must have inscription items."

If the talent trees were designed so they were more passive, or so that each tier did a similar thing a different way (ala MoP) this wouldn't be a big issue, but with the way talent trees are designed, it's huge.

The whole Legion pitch involved being able to change talents at any time, and all the raid (and especially dungeon bosses) are designed to have to make you switch talents if you want to play optimally. What makes these encounters so much fun the way they are now is that we can wipe on a fight, switch up our talents to try a new idea, and push ahead again. I'd love to be able to do that without having to argue with people about when to use the inscription item.

There are hundreds of ways they could address this current non-issue, and as always, they pick the most convoluted one. It's literally unbelievable.

[Barnabas]

My guess is they'll mess up a bunch of talents so you don't want to change the ones you picked too often anyway lol. It'll be wod all over again.

[Heladys]

They've used your ability to switch freely as an excuse not to deal with fundamental spec issues. "Well you can always go Arms for this fight if you want"

This removes their freedom to be selectively lazy too.

Or at least it guarantees their laziness will be impactful and thus hollered about until they are forced to act.