Limiting to One hero per team.

[Lochton]

The game does not need limits on hero duplicates, that's part of how the game works, if 3+ of a hero is beating you then you need to get better at countering that hero because that actually creates a significant weakness in their team.

I would say yes, though a 3+ of same hero is just a cheese. You have to change hero to adapt, but a 3+ is just a cheese because they couldn't build a right combo. Own opinion, of course.

[Demona3]

I remember stacking our team with Bastions to defend. Yeah, the other team was pissed off and called us no talent noobs. Fun game. - this was before Bastion's shield was taken away.

[Sky High]

The game does not need limits on hero duplicates, that's part of how the game works, if 3+ of a hero is beating you then you need to get better at countering that hero because that actually creates a significant weakness in their team.

exactly, but that is limited to groups that have the awareness to capitalize on that. it's something that people are going to have hardest time learning.

[Lochton]

I remember stacking our team with Bastions to defend. Yeah, the other team was pissed off and called us no talent noobs. Fun game. - this was before Bastion's shield was taken away.

Five Torbjörns, the payload had two turrets mounted, and there was four more spread across the map.. It was a scrapheap mayham.. And we loved it..

[Mormolyce]

I would say yes, though a 3+ of same hero is just a cheese. You have to change hero to adapt, but a 3+ is just a cheese because they couldn't build a right combo. Own opinion, of course.

I guess, I've never seen it be very effective though.

- - - Updated - - -

exactly, but that is limited to groups that have the awareness to capitalize on that. it's something that people are going to have hardest time learning.

True, though that is OWs sole skill progression. Which a lot of new players might not realise at first.

[themaelstorm]

This was already done fairly well in the beta, that's what my actual point was, since i played 90% of the time with a 6 man stack I played nearly exclusively against other 6 man stacks. In those cases both teams were pretty well organized and you felt a huge difference wheter they ran something they came up with on their own or something that was known to be OP in tournaments. Even with the same team switching it up between games (we usually encountered the same teams quite often due to few 6stacks being up in the high mmr range).



That is my only real concern with the limit 1 thing, hero changing has to still be intuitive, maybe two of the same hero can exist for a period of time, but as soon as one of them dies he has to switch off or something of the sorts (yes i do see the inherent problem with that, but it was just a quick food for thought thing.)



Come on. winston stacks pre shield nerf and the double genji zen comps pre zenyatta change were completely broken and this is not just according to me but to pretty much all the competitive players that i have seen comment on this. I mean the nerfs there happened for a reason and in case of winston it was after a day iirc. The problem here also being that if you HAVE to run mirror comps (and that was the case during the double genji double ze phase) to beat the enemies it gets pretty shit to play and pretty stale to watch. The other downside is that nerfing those heroes changed their gameplay completely, which would probably have not been necessary if duplicates weren't possible. I've seen teams run tripple zen, double tracer (instead of genji), symmetra during that time because they had two extremely good tracers, the others pretty much just chilled behind while two players did everything due to the synergies, if you can only have 1 zen and 1 tracer that would have gone a completely different way.



This is exactly what happened though, every cheese comp that the competitive scene found so far got nerfed hard in the coming days/weeks, winston barrier, zen orb, genji healthpool (this was reverted after they saw that without the orb he doesn't need another nerf) as examples.

IF that would be possible people would have done it already, there just are certain synergies and hero abilities that makes stacking them better (double mcree, double widow as of the current meta come to mind). Having to have one of every hero only would get people to play heroes that are a lot less used because they would have to come up with new strategies and people would play heroes they are more comfortable with over heroes that have some kind of synergy they need to abuse.



I have watched the bastion plays during the last gosu finals (due to a discussion in another thread) and they got countered extremely easily on every occassion but one, even when running double reinhardt to protect him so this will definitely not get nerfed, bastions main use is against uncoordinated opponents, which is why it doesn't merrit a notion if talking about competitive (since most of that will be 6stack vs 6stack in the higher ratings).



This is what blizzard is doing atm, they nerf whatever stacking is OP atm, but that leads to it's own inherent problem of those heroes not getting picked up nearly as much or at all after the nerf because their use diminishes from being OP to being sub par, if you can't pick up two of it anymore and there is another option then you sure as hell won't run one of them. As an example mercy ulti nerf lead to mercy not being picked up for around 1 month or so and everyone running double zenyatta, the zen nerf now lead to a lot of teams running double lucio or lucio/mercy. zen is getting picked up more again because of the unique toolkit but still the question is would this have been at all necessary if they couldn't stack them in the first place. (mercy nerf was needed for other reasons though and was not a stacking issue).

Can someone count 5 super powerful, very hard to counter stack comps?

You mean as in 5 examples? I know of two off the top of my head, but those dominated everything completely until the responding heroes got nerfed, if i look a bit into the gosu replays i'm pretty sure i can come up with some more. In my opinion it's not really how many were there but how they got handled. Balancing around 1 of each hero per team is a lot easier than around stacking and nerfing every hero that stacks well often leads to that hero not being picked up a lot afterwards.

As a last point its a lot more interesting to watch 6 different heroes play (even if they do mirrorplay) than 2x2x2 (which often also ends in mirrorplay anyway).[/QUOTE]

I don't understand, if they can nerf broken comps, why should they limit players of the whole idea?

What's the difference between stacked broken comp and non-stacked broken comp?

I meant 5 examples and maybe you can find more but consider how many possibilities are there doable with stacking and how many of them are broken. Is limiting the option really worth it?

[Demona3]

Five Torbjörns, the payload had two turrets mounted, and there was four more spread across the map.. It was a scrapheap mayham.. And we loved it..

lol, so excellent! I had a game where the other team had all Junkrats. We all switched to Pharas (sp?) and won lol.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

No and if they made the choice to do that I would cancel my reserve and not play.

Being able to chose any charater you want on the fly is one of the best things about Overwatch.

If you can't beat them with ur current comp then switch. Bottom line (I hate this saying but..) Get Good.

What would you say about 2 per team? Two is usually the most I've seen of a character per team.
Also I think no limit is best for quick play, but competitive having a limit of 2 would be nice.

[Deleted]

I don't understand, if they can nerf broken comps, why should they limit players of the whole idea?

What's the difference between stacked broken comp and non-stacked broken comp?

I meant 5 examples and maybe you can find more but consider how many possibilities are there doable with stacking and how many of them are broken. Is limiting the option really worth it?

The thing is, the don't nerf broken comps, they nerf the heroes, which then don't get picked up anymore or only get picked up very rarely, so it goes from double zen to no zen pickups. There literally was no broken comp that didn't revolve around having at least one stack of a certain hero, that is the main point, thing always only got ridiculous when the tournament teams found something OP they could exploit when using stacks of certain heroes.

Pretty sure i could find some, though when something was OP it got played until they nerfed the heroes so all in all there have not been that many broken comps. Sure the theoretical variety without limiting is higher, but then again does (just as a silly example) 5 winston 1 lucio contribute to variety for the players or the watchers? i doubt it. In my personal opinion having 6 different heroes will always be more enjoyable to play and watch as anything that stacks (even when it's just doubles) provide. Even if the theoretical number is higher for no limit, you will have more variety with having 6 different heroes on both teams even in mirror matches, because so far a lot of games have had 3-5 different heroes in total with double stacks on both teams and when a game has 21 heroes all together its pretty sad to watch double lucio double winston double reaper on both teams (which was the extreme case pre winston nerf) or something like tripple zen double tracer symmetra and flex on both teams you had games with literally 3 out of 21 heroes played, which would not have been the case with 1 hero limit.

[Lochton]

I guess, I've never seen it be very effective though.

It isn't effective, it is a cheese. Either you manage or you fail badly.

[Deleted]

I'm in favor of limiting heroes in competitive but not in normal matchmaking. Sometimes its fun to just go 5 bastions or 5 winstons. Regarding competitive, having multiple of the same hero makes each play of each hero less impactful and difficult to follow. When an Earthshaker Echo Slams a 5 man team in Dota, you feel the impact of that hero. Having multiple dilutes that impact and flare.

I also feel that it constricts the team play synergy. A lot of team games have roles within them and each player is suited to that role. As a result, players can build a reputation in the competitive scene as being the best of that role or hero. People look at PPD, Kuroky and Puppey in Dota as the best support players in the world because that is their identity and role. Overwatch dilutes that with the hero stacking which makes the competitive scene less engaging and the matches more chaotic and dull. There's less clarity and impact of each individual player going on if hero stacking is prevalent.

[Mormolyce]

It isn't effective, it is a cheese. Either you manage or you fail badly.

Is it still a cheese if it usually loses?

[Lochton]

Is it still a cheese if it usually loses?

That is what cheeses are, it's a stupid tactic/combination/action that might lead to a win. If it doesn't, then it's just a failed cheese.

[Mrbleedinggums]

OP, stop being bad. Class stacking is still easy to counter (maybe not in pugs, but they're mouth breathers anyways)

[chesder]

OP, stop being bad. Class stacking is still easy to counter (maybe not in pugs, but they're mouth breathers anyways)

I will never respond to the statement of "stop being bad"

When you have two teams of equally skilled players, sometimes hero-stacking is unbeatable. A couple of really good tracers can devastate a team no matter the skill level.

[Forogorn]

Being limited like that wouldn't be as fun tho

[Deleted]

I wouldn't like to see Blizzard limiting the amount of heroes that can be chosen at the same time. If you can't counter 6x Junkrats with 2x Pharas then you should not win. Same goes with most of the comps. And if you don't know the counter the first few weeks then use the same heroes as your enemys... Would be easier to get 2 hardcounters and win but if like I just said don't know the counters, then counter with the heroes they use. Not the best solution but thats the worst case decission.

[Dug]

I'd only like to see limits in Ranked matches because I think only one of every hero would make for interesting comps instead of stacking. For casual matches I think limits on two would suffice.

[Darknessvamp]

Well as long as Reaper Team 6 is the only one allowed with more than two duplicates then I'd be cool with only 2 of the same characters for the rest for Random teams.

[Raynre Valence]

All I see from that video is an assaulting team that charges in one at a time and doesn't know how to use ultimates.