MH17 crash: Victims' families sue Putin and Russia

[Crispin]

*shug* Ukrainians believed either this or that Russian planes shot their bombers enough to ramp up their anti-air force readiness. That's all that matters.

They had way more people who could make the mistake at the moment it was made.

Any non-Russian govt. sources on that?

First time I've ever read this since it was shot down, next up you'll link the call of duty russian sat. image right?

[Moon-Man]

They have no evidence of Russia doing that, and if they claim they do, its just anti-russia propaganda.

No offence, but victims' family is not being very smart. They are being stupid. They need to fucking move on. They have no evidence, only fabricated by U.S, and I guess only stupid people believes them. Apparently those families are one of them I guess. If they want to blame someone, blame themselves.

I guess the world is overrun by stupid, or freedom makes people stupid, shrugs. Maybe a world war would be a good thing.

[Ripster42]

Can someone explain to me this idea of wanting to sue people or entities from which you will never ever see a penny?

Suing Putin, suing Saudi Arabia. Why?

I'm guessing because if they win, and the defendants ever want to put money anywhere in the court's jurisdiction the assets can be seized. It supposedly limits their financial options. If the court actually has that power, but that's the only real thing I can think of other than giving the families their day in court.

[Azadina]

Even if you had definite proof that Putin himself ordered it shot down, Russia isn't going to pay a dime to anyone.

[Piglord]

Can someone explain to me this idea of wanting to sue people or entities from which you will never ever see a penny?

Suing Putin, suing Saudi Arabia. Why?

It's not always about getting money, because nothing says they have to pay. Sometimes it's about showing responsibility in a court of law.

[Garnier Fructis]

It's not always about getting money, because nothing says they have to pay. Sometimes it's about showing responsibility in a court of law.

Makes sense I guess.

[Shalcker]

Any non-Russian govt. sources on that?

Here is Ukrainian source:
http://comments.ua/politics/477839-p...a-ukraini.html
12 July 2014, anti-air forces went to top alert/readiness mode as reported by Anti-Terror Operation Center.

Another:
http://ipress.ua/ru/news/syli_protyv...ato_74240.html

First time I've ever read this since it was shot down, next up you'll link the call of duty russian sat. image right?

Why should i if Ukrainians never denied that? :/

[Hooked]

Something like this should be handled by government officials, not some greasy lawyers trying to make a quick buck.

[Crispin]

Here is Ukrainian source:
http://comments.ua/politics/477839-p...a-ukraini.html
12 July 2014, anti-air forces went to top alert/readiness mode as reported by Anti-Terror Operation Center.

Another:
http://ipress.ua/ru/news/syli_protyv...ato_74240.html

Why should i if Ukrainians never denied that? :/

So 1 dead link, and one where, from what I can gather from google translate, nothing of a SU-25 beeing captured by the terrorists shows up, but says that their AA is focused on incoming from Russia, from that you conclude that they shot down a jet coming from the opposite direction, from a rebel held area because they thought it was the captured SU-25? Far fetched.

How about Rebels shot down a target they did not identify, but seeing how they shot down other targets earlier and were beeing assaulted by air, they shot this one down aswell, not knowing that it was a passanger jet.


I'm not surprised by your nonsense tho, seeing how you "or whoever used your account then", denied that the little green men werent Russians, but they bought their stuff in the local shops.

[Wildtree]

Here's a strange concept...

How about airlines avoid crisis zones with commercial flights entirely?


For fucks sake, you idiots having fun in the "he did it, no he did it" bullshit, while the victims won't come back to life over that. Nor will their families see any comfort and reimbursement.

[Ausr]

In this thread: People who were never in the old MH17 threads. I seriously fucking laugh at the people saying "It's just anti-Russian propaganda" meanwhile those of who who were in that thread laughed at Russia's CoD: MW2 screenshots for proof.

Even if you had definite proof that Putin himself ordered it shot down, Russia isn't going to pay a dime to anyone.

Buck stops at Putin.

[Shalcker]

So 1 dead link, and one where, from what I can gather from google translate, nothing of a SU-25 beeing captured by the terrorists shows up, but says that their AA is focused on incoming from Russia, from that you conclude that they shot down a jet coming from the opposite direction, from a rebel held area because they thought it was the captured SU-25? Far fetched.

I said there are at least two possibilities on to why they went on heightened readiness. It doesn't matter if rebel Su-25 existed or not, only that Ukrainians thought it might have existed (or that Russians might have smuggled one, or that Russians might fly over border to help rebels at any moment) - they were at heightened readiness at the moment of MH17 going down.

How about Rebels shot down a target they did not identify, but seeing how they shot down other targets earlier and were beeing assaulted by air, they shot this one down aswell, not knowing that it was a passanger jet.

The way anti-air missile detonator works if it was flying on incoming course (from rebel Snezhnoye) it would explode about 3-5 meters in (behind pilot cabin), as it is intended to break wings/tail, not scratch the nose.

If it went from crossing course (Zaroshenkoye) if would explode the moment it would lose radar signal (catching aircraft with side blast).

And we all know how it went...

[Deleted]

Here's a strange concept...How about airlines avoid crisis zones with commercial flights entirely?

How do you defining a crisis zones? The separatist did not have a air force, and no heavy anti-aircraft missiles that can reach that height of commercial flights, and Russia vowed solemnly that they did not suport the seperatists with heavy anti-aircraft missiles....

So there was no risk for commercial flights, imagine what a political mess it would be if International Civil Aviation Organization did take side in the conflict, we think the Russian lies and do provides the seperatists with heavy anti-aircraft missiles or we think the Ukraine military force are totaly incompetent.

[Slant]

Here's a strange concept...

How about airlines avoid crisis zones with commercial flights entirely?


For fucks sake, you idiots having fun in the "he did it, no he did it" bullshit, while the victims won't come back to life over that. Nor will their families see any comfort and reimbursement.

Hmm, wasn't it an actual mistake that they deviated from the course to the warzone? Airlines do avoid crisis zones, look at https://www.flightradar24.com/ and note how they're flying around Syria.

[Deleted]

Here's a strange concept...

How about airlines avoid crisis zones with commercial flights entirely?


For fucks sake, you idiots having fun in the "he did it, no he did it" bullshit, while the victims won't come back to life over that. Nor will their families see any comfort and reimbursement.

Yup totally. Ukraine's airspace should have been no go zone.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, wasn't it an actual mistake that they deviated from the course to the warzone? Airlines do avoid crisis zones, look at https://www.flightradar24.com/ and note how they're flying around Syria.

As far as I know Ukraine's airspace was deemed "good to go".

[Deleted]

The way anti-air missile detonator works if it was flying on incoming course (from rebel Snezhnoye) it would explode about 3-5 meters in (behind pilot cabin), as it is intended to break wings/tail, not scratch the nose.

hurry up and tell the intionationella investigators about it, your skills exceed their.... especially with evidence that prove that all other directions is totally improbable.....

You are funny Shalcker in the past you was fully convinced that it was a Ukraine Su-25 and did have "evidence" now you are convinced it was a anti-air missile and you have "evidence" and it was only fire from a specific direction....

Question, purely mental how do it feel that somthing you was totaly convinced about was totaly wrong? and then without reservations dive into a new convinction....

[Deleted]

How do you defining a crisis zones? The separatist did not have a air force, and no heavy anti-aircraft missiles that can reach that height of commercial flights, and Russia vowed solemnly that they did not suport the seperatists with heavy anti-aircraft missiles....

So there was no risk for commercial flights, imagine what a political mess it would be if International Civil Aviation Organization did take side in the conflict, we think the Russian lies and do provides the seperatists with heavy anti-aircraft missiles or we think the Ukraine military force are totaly incompetent.

One where there is a civil war going in with anti aircraft weapons being both deployed by the government and repossessed by rebels?

[Slant]

As far as I know Ukraine's airspace was deemed "good to go".

Huh... Okay. I could've sworn I read something about a navigational deviation that everyone was puzzled about.

[Deleted]

One where there is a civil war going in with anti aircraft weapons being both deployed by the government and repossessed by rebels?

The point was that the "truth" was that the rebels did not have anti aircraft weapons which could reach height of commercial flights. If the International Civil Aviation Organization restrict the airspace they must take side, either Ukraine anti-aircraft crew is totaly incompetent becuse the rebel lack aircraft or Russia plane to attack or provides the rebels with weapons.

In the Syria civil war the truth is that rebels do have aircraft weapons that can reach height of commercial flights.

[Cynep]

As far as I know Ukraine's airspace was deemed "good to go".

Huh... Okay. I could've sworn I read something about a navigational deviation that everyone was puzzled about.

Yeah, that part of Ukrainian airspace was considered safe above certain height (something like 25000 feet? don't remember), because terrorists only had hand-held anti-air weapons seized from Ukrainian armories, and didn't have BUK missile complexes capable of reaching several kilometers high commercial jets.

The whole "LNR captured an aircraft" fake was fake, insta-refuted then, and never repeated in press since. Only Ukraine had aircraft; Russia supplied terrorists only with ground weapons and tanks.