Possibility of the removal of Tank role in future

[Lochton]

Remove the healer role too then

At this rate, we'll just all be DPS with first aid.

Sorry OP, but all three roles have their connection together. Tank protects DPS and Healer, Healer keeps DPS and Tank alive and DPS dishes out the main dmg to strike down the foe before the Healer or Tank dies.

No role should be removed, it would be a strike against a game like this.

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The "trinity" is very important for WoW. No way in hell they even think about removing the tank role from the game, and i sure as hell hope they don't.

Also... 4 classes can tank, soon 5. There are various perks for doing it, instant queues, extra rewards... they already do massive damage aswell (i wouldn't mind going back to the very low damage \ threat being an issue times, as it was more interesting as a tank, but hey, people love their AOE DMG ROAR ROAR).

The Trinity was tried to be without in a different MMO, it didn't go well, so they had to point out better who could do what.

[WowIsDead64]

While I'm not social player, I have always liked the idea of teamwork and labor division in Wow, i.e. when Tank+Healer+3 DPS >> just 5 DPS. Dedicated group content, such as dungeons and raids, would be pointless without healers and tanks. And I don't like, that Blizzard try to dilute this roles, making them less important. I understand, that majority of players play as DPS and that it was a problem in the past, when after implementation of LFD in WotLK, 5ppls became major content for casual players, so Blizzard decided to make 5ppls easier and more tolerable for inexperienced healers and tanks. But now DPSers have outdoor content, as their major content. Leave 5ppls for players, who enjoy them! I wouldn't play Wow, if Blizzard would remove Tank and especially Healer role. Instead - all classes should have 4th spec, that should be either Healer or Tank.

[Deleted]

The orginal Guild Wars in the original mode (sans easy/hard mode) didnt have any tanks. It was dps and healers. This means that every now and again the mobs will try to gang up a caster. Everyone needs to take at least a defensive cooldown and hope its enough.

Look, it worked for that game. But it's only chaotic gameplay. All the current raid design would go down the drain and it does become a zerg contest. Just like GW2 did.

So, naah, no tanks isnt good. Its a kind of gameplay many people enjoy aswell.

I dislike people trying to diss the trinity just cause they want something different, but the trinity exists for a reason. It works. Nothing else has been created that is anywhere as good.

[Deleted]

Here I am, making an account after 10 years of playing WoW, solely because I find it amazing how narrow minded people can be when confronted with changes

First off, I always played a warrior tank and I enjoyed tanking the most in TBC when I first started raiding. I liked the threat game a lot more than the AOE thunderclap, "now I tank all" style we have now. Also, I found it a lot more exciting to be assigned to specific tasks in a raid. Let´s be honest, the most exciting thing apart from positioning and dodging big hits is the infamous tank swap due to some specific debuff the tank gets... It´s a central tanking mechanic which is in almost every raid fight now and frankly, I´m getting sick and tired of it. This is in my opinion the biggest flaw to the tanking role at its current state.

Secondly, I don´t get why people playing tanks wanted to do more dps and why the developers listened to it in the first place. To what end? How does it make tanking more exciting? Because you are topping the meters? I understand the tank´s role as being the one holding the aggro and being able to survive the direct damage that the boss deals. If it goes as far that certain classes are not considered as tanks because their dps is too low, something is wrong, very wrong!

Now, I gotta admit that I was thinking "WTF?" myself when I saw the topic, and I am still of the opinion that it would be a very bad idea to fundamentally shake up the trinity, simply because it would probably turn a lot of players off. Nevertheless I dont´t think that all of the OP´s suggestions are as bad as some people think they are that posted here.

For example:
- the before mentioned missing positioning if there was no tank: just assign a position that the fixate target has to go to. Also the fixate debuff could come with increased defensive stats, for example a passive like "bolstered resolve", which would decrease damage spikes on the target.
- Or the positioning of adds: DK´s mass death grip any1? Just have a class with this ability pull them to a convenient position and have a different class lock them in place to be able to nuke them down.

That being said, I´m pretty sure I wouldn´t like this design myself. I simply want to point out that there would have to be other mechanics to make up for the missing tank mechanics. And this is my biggest concern with this topic.


To improve the situation, these mechanics would have to be better in the sense of adding to a more interesting gameplay. To find such mechanics is not an easy task even for experienced game developers. And even if Blizzard would find mechanics with a theoretical appeal to them, they would have to be thoroughly tested before going live and even then, they could never be sure how it would play out. Seeing how every little change to the gameplay is a risk in itself, shaking up the gameplay in its foundation, being trinity, is too big a risk.

I would prefer little tweaks to each role and each class so that every role has its appeal and justified purpose. Better the developers improve the system they know rather than having to learn something enitrely new. I relly don´t feel like being on the other end of the learning curve after ten years. A system other than trinity could be the basis for WoW 2 maybe???

TLR:
1. Tanks are not very interesting to play right now
2. If you removed tanks, there would have to be a lot of changes to the gameplay --> new mechanics replacing the old
3. New mechanics would have to improve the situation
4. Finding such mechanics is hard, making them work out even more so
5. Such a fundamental change is too big a risk for a 12 year old game
6. Better improve the system as it is now to make the gameplay more fun

[kaid]

This isn't a QQ thread btw, I intend to tackle the idea of needing a tank, and hopefully create a healthy discussion with your participation focusing around the existance of tanks.

I generally like underdog roles/specs. When I was levelling my Pala in WoTLK, "Tank" was the answer for my question "What is the least played role?" and "Death Knight" was the one for "Which class is the hardest to tank?". Then I rolled a DK, maining it since, one of the best desicions I made in WoW. I love this guy, used to be a Belf female named Sophiedee, alongside with Draenei Female, Belf Male

Back to the topic, I think concept of a damage sponge(Tank) is a bit outdated and Blizzard is slowly moving away from that direction. Farms>Garrisons and other similar "babysteps" are common in Blizzard games where they "test" the impact of a feature in a much smaller scope. I see much less self sufficient Tanking and orther roles getting some sweet survival traits/talents in Legion and It brings the question:

"So If the sturdiness of a Tank vs DPS becomes much closer than WoD, can this be the "babystep" of a "no-tank" WoW in future?"

Tanks existed alongside with healers and they have a relationship between each other, and that is where I see the issue.

Role appeal.

Satisfy the tanks with marvelous survival and healers have not much left to do. Raid damage is there, but not consistent.

Take the sturdiness away and you leave tanks without engaging play, because healers are taking care of it. Surely there will be a mana friendly tank who manage itself well, but I would like to ask the question to you here,

Do you think this is enough?

I don't think it is. State your opinion on this one.

Tanks certainly do serve a purpose, but is it really needed to be dealt by a specific role? If the damage taker requires a healer alongside to function, and tank's self sufficency is not enough to keep them alive for the most situations, then why not tweak the numbers so that other roles can perform it by taking turns. BG's are a whole another story

I do have couple thoughts about no Tank WoW, for example:

Fixate like boss targetting where using the defensives to ease up the healer work. I think this will create more dynamic scenarios for healers and other players. There is a possibility to create different ranged/melee attacks for the bosses to spice the mechanics up. Completely different specs dealing with the same mechanics differently, making the game much more diverse and different from each specs perspective, meanwhile not creating a death scenario where balance is nearly impossible.

Adding a healthy level of unpredictablility is possible with no tank WoW I believe.

Edit: Intention of the thread is to discuss the issues with the existence of tanks and their identity. Focusing on the proposal included in this post will distract the purpose and have a low chance of creating a healthy discussion.

Guildwars pretty much did not have any tanks although in their recent expansion they have gone a bit more that direction. The problem I have with it is groups in dungeons tend to wind up with 5 people frantically running around like chickens with their heads cut off ping ponging mobs around like crazy. It feels like yakety sax should be playing in the back ground for music. I am not sure what the solution is but I have seen some attempts to mitigate it and it has not been pretty.

[primalmatter]

I haven't see a game without tanks that has worked well for anything besides very small groups...

Only way around it I can see to completely rework the combat engine to turn it into a free flowing action rp where the goal is to never be hit.

[nathrizarri]

Still suprises me to see people talking about GW2 when topic or the idea included in topic is nowhere near GW2. Tanking role and tank identity was the topic, not having a tank or not. Read, it works.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Objectively speaking, the role most in need of removal is Healing. It is mostly whack a mole with spot purging...which is basically still whack a mole. Gameplay wise it goes from insanely boring to intensely stressful with few fights being a middle ground. In PVP it's the same being either broken as hell or almost worthless against certain comps. If I'm not mistaken Games like GW2 don't have a dedicated healer and this forces you to play smart, tactically...in theory at least.

From lore perspective healing and resurrection is one those thigns that ruins immersion and certainly is never used on demand. How anticlimatic is it to have the hero of story raised again and again?

If we're being realistic how sensible is it to channel yellow/green magic to hold together a tank who is being pummeled on by a 10 story tall giant? Is that awesome Gameplay? Just my opinion...no.

Use Dungeons and Dragons as an example, Heals go out few and far between, and there are more roles for classes to fill. IMO Tanking is about control more than it is being a beatstick. A Tank's job is to lock down a mob or make his day suck if he tries to go after DPS. Just food for thought, Don't take it too srsly.

[SoBBeN1]

The "trinity" is very important for WoW. No way in hell they even think about removing the tank role from the game, and i sure as hell hope they don't.

Also... 4 classes can tank, soon 5. There are various perks for doing it, instant queues, extra rewards... they already do massive damage aswell (i wouldn't mind going back to the very low damage \ threat being an issue times, as it was more interesting as a tank, but hey, people love their AOE DMG ROAR ROAR).

ya those were the days agro was a thing. people couldn't just go all out all the time.

[Yizu]

One of the things that Wow seriously doesn't need is REMOVING stuff

even garrisons??

[Eapoe]

To be fair, it's an interesting idea and would be fun to try out my hunter as a tank. The problem is, you will never achieve perfect balance in the sense that any organized raid will have the best class go tank and there just isn't a need for it, other than a want of letting any class play that style. Do I think it would be fun and a new, interesting way to play? Hell yes. Do I think it would ever really work? Not a chance.

[Dreadstar24]

REMOVING stuff or not... It needs to go back to it's roots and away from dumbing down the player. This game actually used to be difficult where I used to be an average player. Today, with all of the changes this game has gone through I went from being average to expert over night. Pathetic to think that tanks need to be removed another mindless idea.

[Donair]

Mechanics that will no longer exist without a tank.
- Directional attacks (say hello to cleaving the entire raid at a bad time otherwise)
- Add fights (good luck gathering all the adds nicely and burning them properly without 1 person controlling them)
- Any mechanics that force swapping of the main target (good luck managing a debuff the boss puts on without ready aggro swapping abilities)
- Any one shot boss mechanics that need to be mitigated
- Anything requiring the boss to be at X place at Y time
- Anything requiring the bosses to be separated (think last boss of mogushan vaults)


What you get is a really straight forward boss that cannot have too many mechanics since no one can control any aspect of the bosses behavior. Who gets aggro at any time will be random, making the healers jobs exceedingly more difficult since they have to change focus targets (poor paladins with their beacons). Dps could no longer have any abilities that require them to be behind the boss since it would constantly be moving all over.

It would lead to a worse raid over all.

This is really well put and pretty much /thread. In a game where so much has been streamlined to the max already, the last thing we need is more removal of core game play. The side effects of such a concept simply far outweigh any potential benefits.

[Dartz1979]

One of the things that Wow seriously doesn't need is REMOVING stuff

I agree with you the three roles is good as is.

[FuxieDK]

Also... 4 classes can tank, soon 5.

Druid, Warrior, Paladin, Monk, Death Knight.. Which of the 5 is it, you think can't tank, since we only have "4, soon 5" tanks?

[hulkgor]

Druid, Warrior, Paladin, Monk, Death Knight.. Which of the 5 is it, you think can't tank, since we only have "4, soon 5" tanks?

Geez. I was probably out of my mind when i wrote that. Or probably just disregarded Druid as a tank since i find it boring as fuck, who knows

Thanks for the correction though!

[Kokolums]

Ah, here it is again, that silly obsession with removing things.

Even if the whole system needed changes, I'd rather remove healers than tanks. Tanking makes sense. Fighting is about avoiding as well as absorbing damage, just as much as it is about dishing it out. The healing part is actually the nonsensical one - they're the only ones who spend 99% of their grouped play time staying out of fights. It's weird. Healers are the guys that sit in temples in hubs and you go to AFTER dungeons to have your curses and debuffs done away.

I raided as a holy priest and it felt very rewarding. I enjoyed the challenge of trying to keep other players alive. Not sure why you would remove that.

[Trigsten]

In my eyes the "tank" hasnt really existed since TBC, maybe WoTLK. Its been replaced with some auto threat generator attempting to do 75% dps and pressing 2-3min CDs when told to (by the encounter).

Bring back threat, CC, and create an environment for me to shine as a leader again and ill play a tank again (on live).

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If you don't like tanks, then play GW2.

[TirielWoW]

Ah, here it is again, that silly obsession with removing things.

Even if the whole system needed changes, I'd rather remove healers than tanks. Tanking makes sense. Fighting is about avoiding as well as absorbing damage, just as much as it is about dishing it out. The healing part is actually the nonsensical one - they're the only ones who spend 99% of their grouped play time staying out of fights. It's weird. Healers are the guys that sit in temples in hubs and you go to AFTER dungeons to have your curses and debuffs done away.

As someone who exclusively plays healers, I would quit if the role was not available.