Sweden's city Malmö going on its knees

[Paklaaji]

thousands? So? You know how many people live in Europe right?
Oh cricket teams needed to change their name. Europe is going to collapse.
What REGIONS (LOL) are you talking about?

So 72% of Turks in Germany think Islam is the true religion. That might mean they're Muslims. Does that mean they are not integrated? They're not productive members of society?

I do. I also see the looming change - the growth of immigrant numbers in Europe while native populations stagnate, if not decline.

At this point I don`t even know how to talk to you. The rise of non-Swedish persons in Sweden from single digits to double digits ought to prove that.
The rise of non-French, non-British persons in those countries from single digits to double digits ought to prove that.

Oh, that wouldn`t be the problem. But it`s the tip of the iceberg. That`s how ratchet gets turned. That`s how various regionalisms (Gaelic) went out - they were simply displaced.
As for regions - Birmingham is one example. Look up the demographics of the place.

Productive member=/integration. My country has gypsies that work, pay taxes yet can`t string a single coherent sentence together.
And no, they are not integrated. But that is not even the issue - assimilation is the end goal. And they are not ready to give up their ways of life in favour of German mainstream. I can`t blame them for that. See previous examples I gave for ethnic minorities (in Western countries, soon majority) being insular and unresponsive to the mainstream of the host country (Turks in Bulgaria for example).

[Deleted]

of course that is what's stopping them. What kind of ridiculous question is this.

What's stopping them is America and Australia not accepting refugees. Australias coast guard and border security routinely turn back boats of immigrants and refuse entry to immigrants who try to enter by plane.

It is NOT a question of how to get there.

Most of these migrants aren't poor people who left their home when the bombs fell on them. You don't even understand this much yet you keep posting. I'm losing my patience with you because you have so much catching up to do it's almost futile to try and educate you.

[Wildtree]

During desert storm the whole of United states took in less refugees from Irak than ONE single Swedish city so i wouldn't be too proud of those numbers. Americas boarders are for all intents and purposes CLOSED to refugees. Australia is even more strict when it comes to refugees.

Granted America do have a lot of Hispanic migrants so you do get somewhat of a pass.

I don't get any pass.... MY country takes them in the millions range.
I am German.. I only live in the US currently.

The US deserves criticism where it's due. And I too believe that they should step up and take in refugees by the boat loads, literally speaking. I too believe that the reason for this crisis is due to the US military actions in the last decade.
But all of that does not justify to be dishonest.
The US does take in refugees on a steady base, and up until the crisis started was factually the country that took in the most refugees globally.

If we want credibility with our criticism, we need to stick to the truth at the same time.

[Hodacia]

is it?
http://www.mmo-champion.com/faq.php?faq=forumrules


Now, since many of us are not native English/American, we all post on occasion in other languages.
But then we need to have the courtesy to provide a proper, or at least sufficient translation.

I've seen threads in foreign languages shut down because of, well foreign language.

You dont think its different between posting your entire comment here in swedish or posting a source from a studie thats made in that country in swedish, as a reference? Feels like you are arguing now just for the sake of it.

[Wildtree]

You dont think its different between posting your entire comment here in swedish or posting a source from a studie thats made in that country in swedish, as a reference? Feels like you are arguing now just for the sake of it.

No,
I believe I made it clear that posting something in a foreign language is okay..
But you have to provide a translation summary at least.
Posting something in Swahili and then saying, go read it, your fault if you can't. That is not the way to go about.

[Deleted]

is it?
http://www.mmo-champion.com/faq.php?faq=forumrules

The post IS in english, so your point doesn't really stand.

Now if instead the prolem is that you don't trust the sources because they are written in a language you don't speak instead, that problem is on you alone.
There are two easy fixes to that:

1. You can either trust the people which actually speak that language.
2. Or it's time for you to learn a new one.

/peace

[Deleted]

I don't get any pass.... MY country takes them in the millions range.
I am German.. I only live in the US currently.

The US deserves criticism where it's due. And I too believe that they should step up and take in refugees by the boat loads, literally speaking. I too believe that the reason for this crisis is due to the US military actions in the last decade.
But all of that does not justify to be dishonest.
The US does take in refugees on a steady base, and up until the crisis started was factually the country that took in the most refugees globally.

If we want credibility with our criticism, we need to stick to the truth at the same time.

Well America is a huge country and my country has the population of Georgia. I'm not even sure America beat even Sweden in absolute numbers of refugees accepted. Neither during the Balkan war or the ongoing Syrian conflict.

[Deleted]

I almost feel bad for the half-danes that still live there, come to Stockholm or Gothenburg instead of living in Malmö!

[Deleted]

-0.5% Is your breaking point now is it. Even if considered "insignificant" by the study itself.
And no you're not expecting politicians to adapt anything, otherwise you wouldn't be against changing the system in place to get more employment going.

Yeah, I am expecting them to adapt. What I'm not going to do is buy into the right-wing bullshit about getting rid of our unions to wage dump. If we have a labor market that can't absorb unskilled immigrants then we shouldn't be taking unskilled immigrants. That's what they should adapt to.

No, 0.5% isn't my "breaking point", any immigration policy that is detrimental rather than beneficial is my breaking point.

- - - Updated - - -

....

ok Tilli.

If you think it's disagreeing with what I'm saying then you're not reading what I'm posting or you don't understand my argument or you don't understand that section of the page.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I am expecting them to adapt. What I'm not going to do is buy into the right-wing bullshit about getting rid of our unions to wage dump. If we have a labor market that can't absorb unskilled immigrants then we shouldn't be taking unskilled immigrants. That's what they should adapt to.

I agree with you on this even though I'm right-wing. The unions are the reason we can still enjoy 5 weeks+ of vacation and a fairly decent minimum wage. Fair wages for fair labor.

[Deleted]

That is not correct.
While the USA is reluctant on the current crisis to pick up more refugees, they do however have steady programs.
The USA accepts 70.000 refugees every year, and that is US law since 1980.
Plus they accept on average an additional half million regular immigrants yearly on top.

I'm not familiar with Australia's figures.

70k for a country with 300 million population is nothing. Sweden took 160k last year with almost 10 million population. You'd be taking like several millions more if you were to match Swedens per capita rate, applied to 300 million population it would be about 4.8 million refugees. With a rate like that you'd absord most of the refugees on earth in 10 years in a 300 million population country. Good, huh? Our labor migration is about the same as your "yearly on top" figures, per capita.

[Wildtree]

Well America is a huge country and my country has the population of Georgia. I'm not even sure America beat even Sweden in absolute numbers of refugees accepted. Neither during the Balkan war or the ongoing Syrian conflict.

Enjoy yourself:

http://www.state.gov/j/prm/ra/

Since 1975, Americans have welcomed over 3 million refugees from all over the world. Refugees have built new lives, homes and communities in towns and cities in all 50 states.

Most refugees to the US become permanent residents, and citizen.

That's something not every country offers.
Refugees are generally asylum seekers, and with that are granted temporary stay in most nations.

- - - Updated - - -

70k for a country with 300 million population is nothing. Sweden took 160k last year with almost 10 million population. You'd be taking like several millions more if you were to match Swedens per capita rate, applied to 300 million population it would be about 4.8 million refugees. With a rate like that you'd absord most of the refugees on earth in 10 years. Good, huh?

70k a year makes 700k in 10 years. 2.1 million in 30 years....
And that on top of the regular 500k a year, which adds another 15 million people over 30 years.

[Deleted]

70k a year makes 700k in 10 years. 2.1 million in 30 years....
And that on top of the regular 500k a year, which adds another 15 million people over 30 years.

Yes, I'm aware of this. Your immigration rates are still low. If you were to take what Sweden did last year, you'd be taking 4.8 million refugees + the labor migration per YEAR. Which means you'd add almost 6 million people per year, 60 million people in 10 years, 180 in 30 years. Do you see now how high the immigration is to Sweden? Do you honestly think any country can handle that high rate of immigration from mostly unskilled immigrants who can't even get a normal job?

[Wildtree]

Yes, I'm aware of this. Your immigration rates are still low. If you were to take what Sweden does, you'd be taking 4.8 million refugees + the labor migration per YEAR. Which means you'd add almost 6 million people per year.

My immigration rates are high, I am German.
Your math is still skewed.
Because we only talked about refugees and legal immigrants..
We haven't touched the US' workers/student programs that adds additional people.
And the 11 mio. illegal immigrants on top.

[Deleted]

My immigration rates are high, I am German.

You live in the US and argued about US rates, so, no. It's not high. It's as absurd as me claiming that I'm finnish and live in Sweden, therefore immigration rates are not high because it's not high in finland.

We haven't touched the US' workers/student programs that adds additional people.

Neither have we accounted for relatives coming here or guest workers or students in Swedish numbers. The numbers I've used have solely been refugees and labor migrants. Add another 43k to Swedish numbers from that from relatives and another 10k from students. All in all, Sweden took what.. 160k refugees last year, 17k labor migrants, 43k who are relatives(Of which 15k are relatives to refugees) to people in Sweden and about 10k who came here to study. That makes... 230k. It's still a far higher rate than USA.

[Deleted]

Yepp. But let's see how long it takes before people start making this about evil socialism and immigration. Why the hell OP thinks this deserves to be discussed on an international forum, where people don't know jack about Malmö if they ain't from Sweden, I'll never understand.
This ain't worth a thread here.

This, so fucking much this...
There's not a mention of immigration, refugees or even costs associated with such things...

Its literally about a minor city in sweden have finical troubles, which they've had for years and will continue to have for years.
Nothing to read at all, specially not for people living outside Malmö lol...

Its funny how its 11 pages about immigration from 90% of people who dont even live in sweden...shit, 95% of the people in this thread can barley understand the actual translation from swedish.

Smh...
Its fun how Mooneye blessed us with her racial nonsense bullshit... Its hard to grasp why such a bigot haven't been banned yet.

[Wildtree]

You live in the US and argued about US rates, so, no. It's not high.

I debunked the claim that the USA does not take in any refugees.... Maybe learn to read first?
Plus you're using ONE year for Sweden, or a small period thereof. I am pretty sure that Sweden does not take in 160k every single year for decades.
That would have, by now, switched out the entire population ethnicity and the total population count would have increased dramatically.
Neither happened.

Neither have we accounted for relatives coming here or guest workers or students in Swedish numbers. The numbers I've used have solely been refugees and labor migrants.

True too for the US.. there are 6 million immigration applications in the US yearly.
Family does not count in the statistics for green card limitations, only the primary card holder.

[Deleted]

Its fun how Mooneye blessed us with her racial nonsense bullshit... Its hard to grasp why such a bigot haven't been banned yet.

Point out one post where I've argued about anything related to race.

- - - Updated - - -

Plus you're using ONE year for Sweden, or a small period thereof. I am pretty sure that Sweden does not take in 160k every single year for decades.
That would have, by now, switched out the entire population ethnicity and the total population count would have increased dramatically.
Neither happened.

It hasn't happened because we actually used to enforce the dublin regulation and had a proper immigration policy, we used to have better control over the borders etc. The Social Democrats in the 80s thought 20k coming in 6 months were too many and introduced a law that pretty much stopped us from taking anything but refugees from camps, which the right-wing parties tore up when they got into power in the 90s. Then in 2006 the right-wing parties got into a power and later struck a deal with the free immigration party in Sweden to counteract the Sweden Democrats influence, which fucked our immigration policies up beyond belief and now the Social Democrats are in a coalition government with a party that propagates for free immigration and a no-borders world.

[Deleted]

I really was in Malmö back in 2014, and I really did block that toilet. To use the bathroom you need to ask for the key ("customers only" the sign said), and it is on a big plastic handle so you can't just steal it. When I was there I respected the culture and laws, communicated in embarrassed and slowly spoken English (the only language I know), and really enjoyed my time there. I also did the same in Saudi Arabia (not the toilet) in 2012. Then I left.

What I can't understand is the European obsession with importing so many refugees with wildly different cultures, beliefs, and morality, who refuse to adhere to the culture and laws of the country that is in effect saving them, and just expecting the local population to somehow absorb this and deal with it, and calling anyone that speaks out about it a racist. It is just insane.

[Wildtree]

It hasn't happened because we actually used to enforce the dublin regulation and had a proper immigration policy

So, it did not happen, then what leg are you standing on regarding the US?
There is none other than the current crisis. Wait, a crisis which you dismissed to be one in the first place.
As per YOUR very definition, the USA would not, and should not have to change a damn bit regarding their refugee count.
Where there's no crisis, there's no need for extra intakes, right?
And this is, where my other post comes into play:

The US deserves criticism where it's due. And I too believe that they should step up and take in refugees by the boat loads, literally speaking. I too believe that the reason for this crisis is due to the US military actions in the last decade.

So, your entire blabbering was pointless.