[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Gray_Matter]

I've seen an awful lot of outsider voices throwing their weight behind both candidates, and usually very caustically. I personally am green party, so I was never really a potential Hillary voter, but we see people on both sides from the other end of the world who are deeply passionate about one candidate losing. They don't seem to have much to say for the candidate they want to win though.

I should say, while I'm green party I vote democrat more often than not since that's the only option in most cases. Hillary just doesn't seem to be on the green side of the democratic party. Obviously Republican faux-maverick #3 is much worse, but it sounds like Hillary supporters are saying they have November sewn up tight if they get the nomination, so I can stick with green.

I am not really talking about the support for the candidates but rather the support for the "all or nothing" approach. It seems easy for them to support an "all or nothing" approach because the end result doesn't impact them one way or the other. Unfortunately a bad choice could be much more serious for people who live in the USA. Things like SCOTUS have a big impact on large groups.

Personally I would sit somewhere between Clinton and Bernie. I don't really have a choice either way although there is potentially damaging effects of the race that are making me think less of Bernie. I had a great regard for his determination and his belief in his ideals before this election and would enjoy it when he called out big companies regarding tax on MSM.

I think Clinton is far "greener" than the GOP. What I do see as a problem with some of Bernie's goals are that there is a lot more to implementing them than how simple he seems to try and make it. For example, the medical costs are partly to do with the insurance industry but also related to the medical industry. It has 9 out of the top 10 paying jobs in the USA and 18 out of the top 30. You can cut out the insurance companies completely and the doctors would still charge too much. Orthodontics are $7k in California and $2k where I am from. That's a huge discrepency. Medicines have different prices around the world with the USA far exceeeding most, if not all, other places. Politics seems to be a more complex issue in the US.

I think Clinton does need the support of people, more than most think. The GOP is going to put a boat load of money behind Trump and 20+ years of a GOP dominated SCOTUS can't be a good thing. I still think that the progressives need to form their own wing of the Democratic party and push for their candidates in the primaries and in the elections.

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It's funny how Hillary said in 2008, about not dropping out when people were calling her to drop out just like they're calling for Sanders to drop out now, that by staying in the race, she will help to unify the party. But... When someone is staying in race with you, Hillary, they're not unifying the party, huh?

...

To be fair to her though, she hasn't said Sanders should drop out. But oh my god how she'd want to.

My understanding is that most weren't saying for him to get out but rather to tone down the attacks.

[triplesdsu]

Another example the caucuses (which Sanders win) are BS and undemocratic. He won the Wash one 73-27 where roughly 27,000 people voted. Yesterday they had a primary where 660,000 voted and she won 54/46. OH wait, must have been more fraud and rigged elections even though the results dont matter.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...n/primaries/WA

[Sargerasraider]

Not in the slightest. I'd still like your autograph.

We need to seriously stand back in awe of his spot-on election analysis.

[Skroe]

wealth was actually only one part of it. there's many reasons. he wants to abolish the federal prohibition of marijuana. blacks smoke around the same amount as whites, but blacks are disproportionately arrested or given harsher sentences for it. make it legal, you no longer have that specific problem. he also talks about justice system diversification, and changes to it in general. apparently his college ideas would also work with traditionally black colleges, or he'd work with them to get something set up i think it was said.

Legal Weed.

It always... ALWAYS comes back to legitimizing motherfucking weed. It always comes back to people's nasty habits.

It was the same fucking shit with Ron Paul 4 and 8 years ago. Nevermind the fact that "Doctor Paul" has a long and well documented history of being a race bating, anti-abortion extremist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was an economic nutjob that subscribed to kooky ideas about the Fed, the banks and other things. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was a borderline anti-semetic conspiracy theorist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Pauls' libertarianism is unsuitable for any country more advanced than the Wild West circa 1886. Doctor Paul wanted to legalize weed! There for he had had lots of people's vote.

It was fucking crap then and it was fucking crap now. I mean *for real* all the issues the country has - a deteriorating international security situation, an aging boomer population, exploding entitlements, money in politics, inequality, the rise of political extremism in America... and we're talking about goddamn marijuana yet again.

[Vynestra]

Another example the caucuses (which Sanders win) are BS and undemocratic. He won the Wash one 73-27 where roughly 27,000 people voted. Yesterday they had a primary where 660,000 voted and she won 54/46. OH wait, must have been more fraud and rigged elections even though the results dont matter.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...n/primaries/WA

Caucuses are super undemocratic, should be all primaries.


If it were all primaries, Clinton would literally be winning by landslide margins right now.

[Magicalcrab]

Legal Weed.

It always... ALWAYS comes back to legitimizing motherfucking weed. It always comes back to people's nasty habits.

It was the same fucking shit with Ron Paul 4 and 8 years ago. Nevermind the fact that "Doctor Paul" has a long and well documented history of being a race bating, anti-abortion extremist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was an economic nutjob that subscribed to kooky ideas about the Fed, the banks and other things. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was a borderline anti-semetic conspiracy theorist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Pauls' libertarianism is unsuitable for any country more advanced than the Wild West circa 1886. Doctor Paul wanted to legalize weed! There for he had had lots of people's vote.

It was fucking crap then and it was fucking crap now. I mean *for real* all the issues the country has - a deteriorating international security situation, an aging boomer population, exploding entitlements, money in politics, inequality, the rise of political extremism in America... and we're talking about goddamn marijuana yet again.

Not a fan of Ron Paul myself. He was what I'd metaphorically consider a snickers bar covered in a pile of syringes in terms of policy ideas.
That said, I don't see what the issue is that you're trying to raise. Are you just angry about marijuana legalisation from a personal standpoint? It's an idea that's extremely popular particularly with the young who notice the frequent and disproportional arrests for a what is considered a relatively harmless crime. They point to unjust programs like Stop and Frisk and see marijuana legalisation as a possible solution to some of the problems in the justice system.

Again, I'm unsure what you're actually trying to say. Like, feel free to discuss Bernie Sanders' policies and why you disagree with them - I don't have a particularly strong opinion on marijuana in and of itself since I don't smoke, but the supposed benefits of legalisation make sense to me.

[ringpriest]

Legal Weed.

It always... ALWAYS comes back to legitimizing motherfucking weed. It always comes back to people's nasty habits.

It was the same fucking shit with Ron Paul 4 and 8 years ago. Nevermind the fact that "Doctor Paul" has a long and well documented history of being a race bating, anti-abortion extremist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was an economic nutjob that subscribed to kooky ideas about the Fed, the banks and other things. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was a borderline anti-semetic conspiracy theorist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Pauls' libertarianism is unsuitable for any country more advanced than the Wild West circa 1886. Doctor Paul wanted to legalize weed! There for he had had lots of people's vote.

It was fucking crap then and it was fucking crap now. I mean *for real* all the issues the country has - a deteriorating international security situation, an aging boomer population, exploding entitlements, money in politics, inequality, the rise of political extremism in America... and we're talking about goddamn marijuana yet again.

Perhaps its an indication that some decent-sized segment of the population realizes what an utter crap-show the "War on (Some) Drugs" has been, and how... corrosive its been to our government and society. It's pretty easy to make a pretty good case that the War on (Some) Drugs has been far more damaging that any of the drug use it fails to prevent.

[Pterodactylus]

Another example the caucuses (which Sanders win) are BS and undemocratic. He won the Wash one 73-27 where roughly 27,000 people voted. Yesterday they had a primary where 660,000 voted and she won 54/46. OH wait, must have been more fraud and rigged elections even though the results dont matter.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...n/primaries/WA

230,000 participated in the Caucus. Just an FYI, but still, many, many more particpated in the meaningless primary than the waste of time caucus.

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It was fucking crap then and it was fucking crap now. I mean *for real* all the issues the country has - a deteriorating international security situation, an aging boomer population, exploding entitlements, money in politics, inequality, the rise of political extremism in America... and we're talking about goddamn marijuana yet again.

No kidding. They should just legalize it federally and be done with it and deal with the issues that matter.

[Skroe]

Perhaps its an indication that some decent-sized segment of the population realizes what an utter crap-show the "War on (Some) Drugs" has been, and how... corrosive its been to our government and society. It's pretty easy to make a pretty good case that the War on (Some) Drugs has been far more damaging that any of the drug use it fails to prevent.

I mean, you're right and your wrong (in my opinion of course). The war on drugs has been an embarassingly, colossal, historic failure and an utterly pointless waste of time and resources. And yes it's had a terrible effect on minorities, especially black communities. It should go away. Couldn't agree more.

I could never agree it is, nor will ever be, a central issue of our time though. It's second tier. It is worth asking a politicians stance. But voting for or against them? Only in a narrow case. So many Ron Paul supporters, it simply was not. They willfully ignored generally everything horrible about what passed for his life, because he got up and said "i'll legalize weed".

On the other hand, personally, I do believe society should stand for some things and set some guidelines. I don't like the idea of people recreationally using drugs. Any drugs. I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't drink coffee. I come from a very long line of doctors, and health has always been a central facent of my life, even growing up, so the idea of putting chemicals in your body recreation-ally seems outrageous to me.

I'm not sure if society should ban weed use or not. I mean realistically the genie is out of the lamp with Alchohol and certain stimulants already. Weed is probably consistant with that. But something sits very uncomfortably with me about society saying it's okay for folks to put chemicals in themselves for recreational reasons. I think the effect of Khat on societies in East-Africa / Yemen should be very cautionary. Tens of millions of Americans are already stimulant addicts (Caffeine). It think society should work against that getting any worse.

But I guess in terms of political priorities, it is way down the list. It would be a reason to vote for A over B, is items 1-13 are all a tie. It's a tie breaker issue.

[Wulfey]

Another example the caucuses (which Sanders win) are BS and undemocratic. He won the Wash one 73-27 where roughly 27,000 people voted. Yesterday they had a primary where 660,000 voted and she won 54/46. OH wait, must have been more fraud and rigged elections even though the results dont matter.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...n/primaries/WA

I was sorta, almost okay with caucuses early on because perhaps we should allow activists who care more to have bigger voting power. But this result is simply damning. There is no way activists should be able to flip a 55-45 result into a 27-73 result. That is just ridiculous. Activism should be worth something, but it can't be worth this much. Every last caucus must be abolished immediately.

[Pterodactylus]

There is no way activists should be able to flip a 55-45 result into a 27-73 result.

It was the Saturday before Easter weekend. It took me 4 hours to caucus and because Washington votes by mail, only 15 seconds to vote.

[triplesdsu]

I was sorta, almost okay with caucuses early on because perhaps we should allow activists who care more to have bigger voting power. But this result is simply damning. There is no way activists should be able to flip a 55-45 result into a 27-73 result. That is just ridiculous. Activism should be worth something, but it can't be worth this much. Every last caucus must be abolished immediately.

I understand they are simply for the primaries but i think they are just ridiculous. You cant on one hand complain requiring an ID is burdensome or that being part of the respective party's selection process (closed primaries) is unfair to voters and then turn around and say you don't get to participate in a caucus unless you can commit multiple hours to the process. There is plenty of time during the process for activists to be involved, shouldnt be at the time of the vote.

[Pterodactylus]

On the other hand, personally, I do believe society should stand for some things and set some guidelines.

So do I. But marijuana prohibition does more harm than good.

[hrugner]

I am not really talking about the support for the candidates but rather the support for the "all or nothing" approach. It seems easy for them to support an "all or nothing" approach because the end result doesn't impact them one way or the other. Unfortunately a bad choice could be much more serious for people who live in the USA. Things like SCOTUS have a big impact on large groups.

Personally I would sit somewhere between Clinton and Bernie. I don't really have a choice either way although there is potentially damaging effects of the race that are making me think less of Bernie. I had a great regard for his determination and his belief in his ideals before this election and would enjoy it when he called out big companies regarding tax on MSM.

I think Clinton is far "greener" than the GOP. What I do see as a problem with some of Bernie's goals are that there is a lot more to implementing them than how simple he seems to try and make it. For example, the medical costs are partly to do with the insurance industry but also related to the medical industry. It has 9 out of the top 10 paying jobs in the USA and 18 out of the top 30. You can cut out the insurance companies completely and the doctors would still charge too much. Orthodontics are $7k in California and $2k where I am from. That's a huge discrepency. Medicines have different prices around the world with the USA far exceeeding most, if not all, other places. Politics seems to be a more complex issue in the US.

I think Clinton does need the support of people, more than most think. The GOP is going to put a boat load of money behind Trump and 20+ years of a GOP dominated SCOTUS can't be a good thing. I still think that the progressives need to form their own wing of the Democratic party and push for their candidates in the primaries and in the elections.

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My understanding is that most weren't saying for him to get out but rather to tone down the attacks.

I agree completely that she would be greener than any GOP candidate, but she's about as not green a candidate as the democrats can offer. The medical costs thing is very very complicated and I recommend chatting up any medical professionals you know to get their side of it. So long as you are interested in buying them a drink and listening to swearing for a few hours. Malpractice suits and malpractice insurance make being a doctor and/or running a hospital really painful, particularly if you have litigious population like California. So it's back to the insurance companies again. It's a damned racket.

Hell, people have had successful suits against doctors for the doctor telling them they're getting sick from being too fat. There's something really wrong with that.

But I do agree that one of Bernie's problems is scope and pace of his plans. I think he'd be great as a DNC head but he wouldn't be a disaster of a president. The other problem is lack of foreign policy experience, this one kills me honestly. If he wasn't running against someone with foreign policy experience that looks like a failure coming and going I'd support that person, but Hillary didn't do that well. That combined with her faith in military force leaves me a bit disappointed at our options. Seriously, we're down to three possible candidates and I don't think any of them are really cut out for the part of their job that's going to be the roughest over the next four to eight. Unless Trump can solve global instability by building giant shitty hotels everywhere that is(Oh, I'll build a refugee camp, it'll be huge. I know people who build these camps and they don't know what they don't know. I'll get some of the best guys on it, I have some bids out right now actually, things are coming together and I think...).

[Dextroden]

So do I. But marijuana prohibition does more harm than good.

It does. But even I'm turned off by the idea of people leading with the legalize stance. It's starting to read like equality coming from a politician. A hollow phrase used to try and spark excitement. I'm done being excited until I see results.

[triplesdsu]

It was the Saturday before Easter weekend. It took me 4 hours to caucus and because Washington votes by mail, only 15 seconds to vote.

Ill give you props for doing your civic duty for 4 hours. Id be like f this, i got better ways to spend 4 hours.

[therayeffect]

He was given a real chance. He squandered it. Maybe if he didn't spend 25 years alienating everyone he has ever worked with, he would have had more endorsements (i.e. super delegates) in the Senate. Instead the only guy he has is the first term Junior Senator from Oregon. Maybe instead of bitching about closed primaries his campaign took some initiative to register his independent supporters. He has run one of the worst campaigns from a contender I've ever seen and if any year was primed for an outsider, it was this year. He had no competition other than Clinton.

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He better hope so. He needs to win California by 28%

Lol, he wasn't given a real chance. The debate scheduling was clearly favorable to Clinton and she ended up getting a massive lead from the South which is currently the vast majority of the difference in the voting. If he was better known down there, it's very likely he would've gotten much better percentages in the South and not started out with basically a 200+ delegate deficit.

I'm worried she's going to screw this up (the polls are getting bad) and end up messing up all of the progression we've tried to make. Ironically I'm not sure what's more worrisome for progression, her getting elected or Trump getting elected. Maybe people will go with a split vote and vote for Trump but vote in a Democrat Congress. We'll see.

The news that she really fucked up with the Emails might be another bell toll being rung for the end of her campaign. I can only hope that if she gets indicted, it'll be before the convention so the damage she could do to the party can mostly be mitigated. I really wish the FBI would get this case wrapped up already but I know they're being thorough.

[Wells]

Legal Weed.

It always... ALWAYS comes back to legitimizing motherfucking weed. It always comes back to people's nasty habits.

It was the same fucking shit with Ron Paul 4 and 8 years ago. Nevermind the fact that "Doctor Paul" has a long and well documented history of being a race bating, anti-abortion extremist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was an economic nutjob that subscribed to kooky ideas about the Fed, the banks and other things. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Paul" was a borderline anti-semetic conspiracy theorist. Never mind the fact that "Doctor Pauls' libertarianism is unsuitable for any country more advanced than the Wild West circa 1886. Doctor Paul wanted to legalize weed! There for he had had lots of people's vote.

It was fucking crap then and it was fucking crap now. I mean *for real* all the issues the country has - a deteriorating international security situation, an aging boomer population, exploding entitlements, money in politics, inequality, the rise of political extremism in America... and we're talking about goddamn marijuana yet again.

Its not about habits. Its about a crime that shouldn't be a crime that has a very real and serious negative effect on countless lives. Criminalization means fewer able bodied workers, fewer parents, more money on prisons, it means long term damage to earning potential etc etc etc.

Don't do yourself the disservice of just turning it into hippie punching.

[Celista]

http://blindgossip.com/?p=78645#comments

Blind gossip website but they've been around for awhile, most of their stories end up coming out/getting verified.

[Matchles]

Lol, he wasn't given a real chance. The debate scheduling was clearly favorable to Clinton and she ended up getting a massive lead from the South which is currently the vast majority of the difference in the voting. If he was better known down there, it's very likely he would've gotten much better percentages in the South and not started out with basically a 200+ delegate deficit.

I'm worried she's going to screw this up (the polls are getting bad) and end up messing up all of the progression we've tried to make. Ironically I'm not sure what's more worrisome for progression, her getting elected or Trump getting elected. Maybe people will go with a split vote and vote for Trump but vote in a Democrat Congress. We'll see.

The news that she really fucked up with the Emails might be another bell toll being rung for the end of her campaign. I can only hope that if she gets indicted, it'll be before the convention so the damage she could do to the party can mostly be mitigated. I really wish the FBI would get this case wrapped up already but I know they're being thorough.

Whose fault is it if he was unknown in the south? The media has no obligation to make sure all voters understand his platform. And there is zero evidence that anyone has ever been discouraged from voting because of early reports of super delegate support.

I'm worried that salty Sanders supporters will refuse to jump on the campaign or vote for Trump under some idiotic notion that a terrible 4 years under him will bring about their "revolution." As for her policies. She is more liberal than Obama and her husband in every respect. So if allowed to do the job she isn't going to be undoing progressive achievements. That is what a Trump presidency will do.

The report released today has absolutely nothing new in it. She made a poor choice and did nothing illegal. Many on this board have been waiting with bated breath for a smoking gun for more than a year now. Nothing.