"We think [Elite] Players deserve better gear" - Kaivax

[Egregious]

So right now if you look down you see lfr underneath you? Are you like plugged into the matrix? Or do you have a floor made of monitors that constantly show lfr?

It is literally metaphorically beneath me.

[OreoLover]

Just because you don't agree with my thoughts doesn't make them pointless. And I would argue humorous as opposed to emotional, but that's just me.

Who said there weren't halfway decent raiders in LFR? All I said is that it's infested with mouth-breathers and mongoloids, which it is. Hell, there are even diamonds if you'd enjoy sifting through that cesspool.

The only thing farcical here is what you're assuming about me.

Lastly, you would disagree that they try to find ways to encourage players in other difficulties from entering into LFR?

Humorous or emotional, it doesn't fit in well with distinguishing when people are serious. Me saying "GG" is pretty obviously not serious to me.

On the assumption: "...a difficulty they deem "raiding" simply because they have a stimulus program to get halfway decent raiders there..." it is not a far stretch from there to "Egregious doesn't think LFR has halfway decent raiders," my bad for stretching it the wrong way, then.

And no, not at all. That's why I presented the idea to remove 1 of Normal/Heroic, instead, or to convert Normal to a queued content and remove LFR, among other ideas. In fact, I think such wide, aggressive changes would benefit queues and skill and reward structure, to remove the "socialist" method of drawing in the "better" players.

[Glorious Leader]

It is literally metaphorically beneath me.

So... it's metaphorically beneath you.. which is fine..behold ye mighty heroic/mythic raider made humble by the lowly lfr.

[Rotted]

As a filthy casual, I completely agree with this,

You do harder content, you get better rewards. I just think its shit having three difficulties for the same raid., regardless raid size,

Bring back different size raids with progressive difficulty,

Alas that is a different argument

[Glorious Leader]

Yes, it is.
Luckily I don't see people demanding that LFR-gear should be the same as Mythic-gear.


PS. Woohoo, I am posting in a Jaylock thread!

Individually you can make that argument but collectively no. The collective acts of all those folks leaving represent a demand that the developers will ultimately try to address to retain subscribers kr win back subscribers. You can MAYBE make the case that people who left demanding better rewards out of lfr are entitled individually but as a group they are simple a market blizzard failed to address.


It is not the same as the handful jackasses who whined about being forced to do content. They are in fact entitled as they would demand the game and the developers not move to bring back to retain subscribers.

[Egregious]

Humorous or emotional, it doesn't fit in well with distinguishing when people are serious. Me saying "GG" is pretty obviously not serious to me.

On the assumption: "...a difficulty they deem "raiding" simply because they have a stimulus program to get halfway decent raiders there..." it is not a far stretch from there to "Egregious doesn't think LFR has halfway decent raiders," my bad for stretching it the wrong way, then.

And no, not at all. That's why I presented the idea to remove 1 of Normal/Heroic, instead, or to convert Normal to a queued content and remove LFR, among other ideas. In fact, I think such wide, aggressive changes would benefit queues and skill and reward structure, to remove the "socialist" method of drawing in the "better" players.

I also am a proponent for either merging LFR/Normal or just removing Normal.

[Atherius]

As is should be. Don't see anything wrong with his statement at all..

[Jaylock]

So... it's metaphorically beneath you.. which is fine..behold ye mighty heroic/mythic raider made humble by the lowly lfr.

Why do you defend LFR so vehemently? What do you stand to gain by taking that side? Do you not enjoy the journey? The aspiration to something greater than mediocrity? Do you feel left out if you cant click a button to automatically place you in a raid?

I mean there are soooooooooo many more ways of entering pug normal+ raid content now than there was Vanilla and TBC that there really doesn't need to be a queuable system that matches 25 random strangers together to "i win raid".

[Drakain]

It is literally metaphorically beneath me.

That's totally possible.

[OreoLover]

It is literally metaphorically beneath me.

EDIT: You answered before I asked, GG again lol.

Out of curiosity, what do you think might be better "this many modes" or "rewards here, instead" options?

LFR removal, combining of modes down to 2-3, keep all modes but remove LFR rewards, storymode LFR, remove Mythic power outside of Mythic, no gear at all from Mythic...?

[Egregious]

So... it's metaphorically beneath you.. which is fine..behold ye mighty heroic/mythic raider made humble by the lowly lfr.

I am always humble except when I'm being hyperbolic and grandiose.

[Drakain]

Why do you defend LFR so vehemently? What do you stand to gain by taking that side? Do you not enjoy the journey? The aspiration to something greater than mediocrity? Do you feel left out if you cant click a button to automatically place you in a raid?

I mean there are soooooooooo many more ways of entering pug normal+ raid content now than there was Vanilla and TBC that there really doesn't need to be a queuable system that matches 25 random strangers together to "i win raid".

I don't particularly care one way or the other. I've done both - competitive raiding and the casual thing. But I'd like to point out that if you're 'rising above mediocrity' based on the type of content you do in WoW you need to re-examine your priorities. The way I see it is that a hard stance is silly. Traditionally blizzard has kept the ilevel of items dropped in line with the difficulty of the encounter. So even if tier gear, which is fun and cool, drops in LFR, it will almost certainly be inferior to what drops in higher difficulties. So the morbidly insecure will still be able to waive their e-dicks around with both their superior achievements and superior statistics. The only thing that changes is that raiders won't be quite the special snowflakes they got to be in WOD - which is kind of silly anyway.

[OreoLover]

Why do you defend LFR so vehemently? What do you stand to gain by taking that side? Do you not enjoy the journey? The aspiration to something greater than mediocrity? Do you feel left out if you cant click a button to automatically place you in a raid?

I mean there are soooooooooo many more ways of entering pug normal+ raid content now than there was Vanilla and TBC that there really doesn't need to be a queuable system that matches 25 random strangers together to "i win raid".

I really, really enjoy the convenience, lack of politics, lack of item drama, lack of raid leaders, and solitude between.

LFR is basically just "big dungeon queue" to me. If LFR and queued dungeons were removed, that's a big loss unless I shift, and I am not sure I would (but very sure that many wouldn't).

[melodramocracy]

Uhh no most folks didn't run it anyhow. Que times sky rocketed as the expansion went on. It was do bad they added valor.

Go look back at completion rates for LFR here on MMOC.

[Glorious Leader]

Why do you defend LFR so vehemently? What do you stand to gain by taking that side?

I'm actually quite anti lfr but that's within the context of being less than thrilled with the prospect of end being solely about raiding. I'd love for lfr to go because it would mean huge cut backs in raid content as the developers can no longer rely on anyone except a handful of players being entertained by raiding. If you take out lfr yiu gotta provide something for players who would normally engage in lfr to do. That's gonna come out of raiding.

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Go look back at completion rates for LFR here on MMOC.

Yea that doesn't change the fact that que times sky rocketed and they had to put valor in expressly because people weren't running it.

[Sierra85]

Elite players do deserve better gear if they put in more effort.

Effort = Reward. thats not a new concept.

[melodramocracy]

I mean there are soooooooooo many more ways of entering pug normal+ raid content now than there was Vanilla and TBC that there really doesn't need to be a queuable system that matches 25 random strangers together to "i win raid".

The queuable system continues to thrive because of dumbfuck pug leaders who demand AOTC 2-3 weeks after the content is out. Enjoy.

[unstableone]

This mentality works for pve only.

Trying to apply it to pvp is a mistake on many levels.

[melodramocracy]

I'm actually quite anti lfr but that's within the context of being less than thrilled with the prospect of end being solely about raiding. I'd love for lfr to go because it would mean huge cut backs in raid content as the developers can no longer rely on anyone except a handful of players being entertained by raiding. If you take out lfr yiu gotta provide something for players who would normally engage in lfr to do. That's gonna come out of raiding.

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Yea that doesn't change the fact that que times sky rocketed and they had to put valor in expressly because people weren't running it.

But it changes the relevancy of saying "most people didn't run it", which is of course nonsense. Additionally, once people were done with their legendary items, why would they want to go back to it? Of course additional incentives were added, much like they were added during MoP's content draught.

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This mentality works for pve only.

Trying to apply it to pvp is a mistake on many levels.

True. Gear should be a complete non-factor in pvp, no matter what skill level you're looking at.

[Glorious Leader]

But it changes the relevancy of saying "most people didn't run it", which is of course nonsense. Additionally, once people were done with their legendary items, why would they want to go back to it? Of course additional incentives were added, much like they were added during MoP's content draught.

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True. Gear should be a complete non-factor in pvp, no matter what skill level you're looking at.

Which is just to say that content without extrinsic reward is bypassed. Ergo legendaries. Of course that argument can nr made about any form of content.