BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Slant]

What does linking to a (already expired) coal/steel trade agreement do to embolden your argument? Did you eve read your link yourself?
You literally wrote that the EU is to prevent countries going to war with each other, which it is not at all about, then instead of admitting you where wrong, you try to crawl your way out of the hole you dug yourself into with more irrational arguments.

Maybe you should go and read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

Or maybe i should just start ignoring your trolling.

The Coal and Steel agreement was the precursor to the forming of the EC, which later became the EU. The core belief that by fusing different economies together you prevent a war is still prevalent and the underlying necessity of the EU. This is, by the way, established historical fact. You can pretend it doesn't work that way in your head, but generally, everyone else will disagree with you.

But since you and History are not on good terms, perhaps you'll think about this a minute before shitposting again: For the first time in over 2000 years, the entire subcontinent has been largely at peace. I am ignoring Yugoslavia here, since they weren't in the EU. But everyone in the EU is at peace with each other. Not only that, it's so much at peace, that the mere idea of invading France is unthinkable. You'd get laughed out of the room. This is unprecedented as far as history records go. The EU is working. Babies like you don't remember a time when it was different. Heck, my parents even have just the foggiest memories of their first years during WW2. But it's not so long ago that you should dismiss the powder keg that Europe was at any given time in the past 2k years.

England vs. France. Germany vs. France. Spain vs. England. Austria vs. Spain. Prussia vs. Austria. France vs. Everyone. Those are all countries (Prussia being part of Poland now) that are member states of the EU. And the only competition they have currently is a political one. The PEOPLE like each other. A lot. Even if Merkel came up on TV and said "What ho, let's go invade France!" nobody would move a finger to help her.

Deny it all you like. Deny the significance. It is that ignorance that the EU is also protecting. You don't need to think for yourself if you don't want to, we'll even keep people like you save and sound. Whether you like it or not.

[Prothynyas]

leave or remain?

leave get the hell out of there !!!! Nooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

Angela merkel wants you to stay , you need to do the opposite !!!!!
Merkel was the one who caused the rape appedemic and she caused europe 100 of millions of dmg by calling for regufee's to move over to germany and other countries
merkel has a huge bill $$$$$$ to pay for all the dmg she caused !!!
So dont listen to her , leave while you can , women dont know how to rule , only to colossally fuk up
and merkel proved it over and over

[Deleted]

Errr.. what the fuck. Its a non-issue because there is no arguement with any credibility that leaving is better economically, the case is overwhelming that staying in is the economically better option. Calm down please. and dont be so reactionary.






You have no right to question my patiotism, its precisely because I am a proud patriotic Brit that I am voting to remain. Besides what culture, traditions and customs does immigration threaten? the right to get pissed and piss on the street on a Friday night?

My country is about inclusion, about plurality, about adaptation and change and progress. Those are British values, not fear, xenophobia, and jingoism.

thing is if we stay in the EU we will get change, more british workers being replaced by cheap labour cos thats how bosses work in employment, would you pay a brit £10 per hour or an immigrant £5 per hour you hire the immigrant cos he will work for less saving the company money, if anyones doing the fearmongering its the remain camp not the leavers, have you seen the headlines on bbc over the past 2 weeks for remainers, im suprised the remain camp hasn't said that all biblical diseases will come forth and drown thy england

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I've decided not to vote because both sides have been very petty and argued like little children between them with the remain camp fearmongering with paying slightly more to the leave campaign being just as childish in their remarks, We the people need proper hard detailed facts not all this childish bickering.

easiest thing to do flip a coin heads = leave tails = remain then vote let he coin decide or get a magic 8 ball

[Slant]

leave get the hell out of there !!!! Nooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

Angela merkel wants you to stay , you need to do the opposite !!!!!
Merkel was the one who caused the rape appedemic and she caused europe 100 of millions of dmg by calling for regufee's to move over to germany and other countries
merkel has a huge bill $$$$$$ to pay for all the dmg she caused !!!
So dont listen to her , leave while you can , women dont know how to rule , only to colossally fuk up
and merkel proved it over and over

This is btw a good example of the typical "leave" reasoning. Or the lack of it. It's cute, but ultimately a wrong decision.

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thing is if we stay in the EU we will get change, more british workers being replaced by cheap labour cos thats how bosses work in employment, would you pay a brit £10 per hour or an immigrant £5 per hour you hire the immigrant cos he will work for less saving the company money, if anyones doing the fearmongering its the remain camp not the leavers, have you seen the headlines on bbc over the past 2 weeks for remainers, im suprised the remain camp hasn't said that all biblical diseases will come forth and drown thy england

I'm surprised the myth that immigration steals job is still around. It has been debunked countless times by now.

[Prothynyas]

This is btw a good example of the typical "leave" reasoning. Or the lack of it. It's cute, but ultimately a wrong decision.

look if nigel farage is for leaving then listen to the man !!
man are always right !!
and merkel is a woman and she is wrong !
how good her intentions are mr farage knows his stuff and im for his logic
besides , let them leave and honor their dicision

[Cien]

I've decided not to vote because both sides have been very petty and argued like little children between them with the remain camp fearmongering with paying slightly more to the leave campaign being just as childish in their remarks, We the people need proper hard detailed facts not all this childish bickering.

and refusing to vote is just as childish really, do your own research and make your own conclusions, but don't be pedantic and waste it

[Slant]

Eu citizens working in the uk aren't immegrants, they are Eu citizens working in the eu. As for uk immigration, we currently have full control in determining who enters and who doesn't.

What I find funny is that by his logic, you have 485 million people coming to the UK potentially. Yet, the current record is at a net immigration of 185k for 2015. And the average is more like below 100k. You'd think more people would go to the UK, but I guess most really like it where they are.

[Deleted]

There is no case, there is only guesswork.

I remember John Major reaffirming his commitment to the ERM and warning against the dangers of leaving. A week later we crashed out of the ERM, and come '97 we had a good economy with a current account surplus and low inflation.

you can debate individual figures, but when every single organisation and economic institution, all our allies, and well, everyone of any credibility really, says that its going to be an issue, the onus is on you to demonstrate somethign contrary to that, no one has yet done so.

Feel free to produce a counterarguement.

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So you have no idea how much the EU contributed to the prosperity of UK yet you are ready to claim that all of it will be on the chopping block if UK decides to leave.

...

thats not what I said, If you are going ot make such ridiculous statements to invent arguements, welcome to my ignore list.

[Deleted]

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I'm surprised the myth that immigration steals job is still around. It has been debunked countless times by now.

debunked by who nobody cos its still the truth so your telling me an employer wouldnt hire an immigrant for less pay than a british worker dnt make me laugh, just look at sports direct all there staff are immigrants in the one near me anyway cos they cant afford to or dnt want to hire british workers

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That would be contrary to current uk law as £5 is below minimum wage.

you think big bosses care about the law tax and wages just look at google amazon and facebook they dnt pay fuck all in taxes, aslong as your rich your safe fro manything in this country, migrants wont complain or anything aslongas they get paid its only british people who would complain

[Slant]

debunked by who nobody cos its still the truth so your telling me an employer wouldnt hire an immigrant for less pay than a british worker dnt make me laugh, just look at sports direct all there staff are immigrants in the one near me anyway cos they cant afford to or dnt want to hire british workers

Stop fearmongering, it's established fact that immigration creates jobs in the long run.

[Koji2k11]

look if nigel farage is for leaving then listen to the man !!
man are always right !!
and merkel is a woman and she is wrong !
how good her intentions are mr farage knows his stuff and im for his logic
besides , let them leave and honor their dicision

[Deleted]

thing is if we stay in the EU we will get change, more british workers being replaced by cheap labour cos thats how bosses work in employment, would you pay a brit £10 per hour or an immigrant £5 per hour you hire the immigrant cos he will work for less saving the company money, if anyones doing the fearmongering its the remain camp not the leavers, have you seen the headlines on bbc over the past 2 weeks for remainers, im suprised the remain camp hasn't said that all biblical diseases will come forth and drown thy england
)

and if we leave we will almost certainly have to sign up to free movement of people as part of an EU trade deal.

The thing you want to argue for is a higher minimum wage if you want to protect workers pay. And for taxing corporations on their actual profits, something only th EU is doing, whereas teh UK government, left to its own devices, is actively preventing that occuring.

Neither campaign is any good, and both are shit slinging fear mongers. The leave side jsut throw around "project fear" (a tadge unoriginal I feel) whenever they have no arguement. Presenting a consequence is reality not fearmongering. And i'm sorry, if we stay in the EU we will be SWAMPED by a SWARM of IMMIGRANTS and MUSLIMS as the ENTIRE POPULATION of TURKEY floods our borders......sigh, if you cant see the bullshit on both sides, you are a fanatic and need to get some perspective.
But neither campaign is doing itself any favours so just ignore both of them.

[Deleted]

and if we leave we will almost certainly have to sign up to free movement of people as part of an EU trade deal.

The thing you want to argue for is a higher minimum wage if you want to protect workers pay. And for taxing corporations on their actual profits, something only th EU is doing, whereas teh UK government, left to its own devices, is actively preventing that occuring.

Neither campaign is any good, and both are shit slinging fear mongers. The leave side jsut throw around "project fear" (a tadge unoriginal I feel) whenever they have no arguement. Presenting a consequence is reality not fearmongering. And i'm sorry, if we stay in the EU we will be SWAMPED by a SWARM of IMMIGRANTS and MUSLIMS as the ENTIRE POPULATION of TURKEY floods our borders......sigh, if you cant see the bullshit on both sides, you are a fanatic and need to get some perspective.
But neither campaign is doing itself any favours so just ignore both of them.

really nobody else in the world or the history of trade deals means you have the free movement of people thats the most idiotic thing ive heard in this thread, if we leave the EU we dnt have to sign anything

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Just like I want Trump to win the elections, I hope the UK will vote "leave" too.

What is better than watching one train wreck in slow motion?

Watching two of them.

do uhave a crystal ball that sees into the future

[Kalis]

you think big bosses care about the law tax and wages just look at google amazon and facebook they dnt pay fuck all in taxes, aslong as your rich your safe fro manything in this country, migrants wont complain or anything aslongas they get paid its only british people who would complain

Have you got any evidence that large companies in the UK are paying below minimum wage and getting away with it?

[jellmoo]

I honestly do not have enough information to make an educated decision, as the entire situation is getting very minimal airtime here in Canada.

That being said, as an anglophone Canadian living in Quebec, I am slightly sensitive to the topic of separation. For me, I would demand a thorough report on the implications of what leaving entails, as well as a clear separation of benefits from rhetoric. It's never been clear in Quebec, and this is something going on 40+ years. I can only imagine how murky it is in Britain.

[Deleted]

An Edinburgh sized population of NET immigration every year.

Immigration the UK has no control of. This has to stop, it cannot be maintained. If they were building a new Edinburgh every year and increasing the road infrastructure to cope I wouldn't have a problem taking people in from all corners of the globe. But they aren't. If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, roads seem to be getting more restricted, not increased. Case in point, a dual carriageway near me has recently been cut down to single lanes and one entire side of the dual carriageway turned into a cycle track.... Roads are constantly being turned into dead ends/one way systems with no new roads or motorways being built anywhere, only 'road improvements' which usually result in more restrictions. Yes I know UK itself is to blame for this not the EU, the point being if we don't have the capacity or foresight to create more living space then why are we accepting net migration to the tune of 300,000 a year?

As it stands, young people in the UK find it harder to get their foot into entry level jobs because they are being undermined by cheaper, experienced labour from the EU. If I were an employer, I know that given the option I too would choose the cheaper, less disruptive worker, but how will young people ever get the experience to grow up in jobs? A snake eating it's own tail, creating more participants in the welfare state. When they are lucky enough to get jobs, young people cannot afford to buy houses without forcing themselves into relationships and hoping they can join salaries with their partner.

The new 'living wage' is only going to make matters worse, as more and more employers will turn to 'gang masters' to source cheap eastern European labour, something that is completely within EU law, with gang masters paying 'temporary' staff as little as 1 Euro an hour. I provided IT support to a large bakery, I know exactly how this works, and they aren't breaking any laws. These people who are exploited by the gang masters, then claim tax credits or income support to make up the difference in living costs, they are technically paid from say Romania, but can work as temporary workers in the UK, but while in the UK claim income support and child tax credits if they have any. All thanks to freedom of movement rules in the EU.

It cannot be sustained in my opinion. Out.

[DarkAmbient]

you can debate individual figures, but when every single organisation and economic institution, all our allies, and well, everyone of any credibility really, says that its going to be an issue, the onus is on you to demonstrate somethign contrary to that, no one has yet done so.

Feel free to produce a counterarguement.

"Every single organisation and economic institution" is a falsehood, please don't do that.

Their claims are guesswork, there are few facts, only opinions - on both sides.

[ati87]

thing is if we stay in the EU we will get change, more british workers being replaced by cheap labour cos thats how bosses work in employment, would you pay a brit £10 per hour or an immigrant £5 per hour you hire the immigrant cos he will work for less saving the company money, if anyones doing the fearmongering its the remain camp not the leavers, have you seen the headlines on bbc over the past 2 weeks for remainers, im suprised the remain camp hasn't said that all biblical diseases will come forth and drown thy england

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easiest thing to do flip a coin heads = leave tails = remain then vote let he coin decide or get a magic 8 ball

If their is a huge difference gap between what you have to pay NON UK citizens and UK citizens , so including EU immigrants and non EU immigrants (which is pure UK policy and not EU) then you should be looking at yourself instead of the EU.

By general rule of dumb working in that specific EU country means you have to pay everybody the same, their are ways to around that (if you work as a individual contractor) but rules are again written by the individual countries and not the EU.

The EU creates general policies, it creates a direction for individual countries to follow and the implementation is all up to the member's and as long as the minimum recruitments are met the governing body of the EU is happy as well. And again, you have your own elected officials, ones you choose at the national elections and the EU elections, to represent you and your country during multiply stages of governing.


Maybe their are some laws you don't like but cry me river because that's politics, it's the same with national politics. if you don't like certain policy's you vote differently next election just like any democracy you don't go and hope for the destruction of your government because that;s just being a anarchist .

[DarkAmbient]

debunked by who nobody cos its still the truth so your telling me an employer wouldnt hire an immigrant for less pay than a british worker dnt make me laugh, just look at sports direct all there staff are immigrants in the one near me anyway cos they cant afford to or dnt want to hire british workers

Indeed. A company I used to work for hired the vast majority of their staff locally. When the EU opened up they began recruiting people from temp agencies which sourced their staff from Eastern Europe. The Poles could afford to work for lower wages because they were usually young men without a family to support, and they'd all crowd together in dodgy homes of multiple occupation so their outgoings were minimal.

[Sprinky]

With such a lack of clear information on what will happen if we leave. If we can believe anything that is being said it looks like a decision between staying in with a healthier economy but possible influx of Turkish immigrants. Or leaving the EU and possibly triggering another recession but having less immigration.

Personally I know I will always have plenty of money so I'm leaning towards voting out. I find it quite amusing though that a lot of the voters who are clearly voting for purely racist reasons are some of the people who will be hit hardest by austerity.