Garrison/Orderhall tables are NOT a bad thing

[Smank]

Lol no, it's not a bonus. It's the same things that were in the garrison just shoved all into the table. Daily dungeon/raid/world bosses are a part of the table for example among other things like the traders have essentially turned into the profession missions.

Are you talking about world quest? Nothing you're saying is true of the class hall table.

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No, the actual problem is that for every damn system, queue or UI mechanic, there is more of a "gamey" feel, and less of a world.

Then don't use it. Don't take it away from people that like it.

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ermm what? no class hall mission forces you to go out in the world, sure there are quests in the class hall that send you out but so were there garrison campaign in WoD, so nothing has changed. Soon enough all of this will be irrelevant anyways just like in WoD, you can go and do a fast world mission for 1k resources and that's gonna last you a week at least, then you just keep collecting gold from missions and sending new ones out.

Oh yes that glorious 100 gold a week will be lovely

[Sencha]

Yes the problem is that it is mandatory. Not a scoop.

[Trickname]

Hi there. Please do some research on the difference between an opinion and a fact.

[Deleted]

Then don't use it. Don't take it away from people that like it.

1. I have to use the systems to play the game, and in some situations to be on equal footing to others. What kind of argument is this?

2. Someone liking a certain game design decision does not a healthy game world make.

3. It's a world, not a menu.

4. I've always played WoW and I will probably play it for years to come, I can still be critical about my entertainment without getting dismissive counter-arguments. Argue for why you think a saturation of systems, queues and UI mechanics is good for a game that tries to emulate a living breathing world instead.

[glowpipe]

The only people that like them are people with numerous characters churning in gold from just logging in a few seconds between characters sending followers out on missions.

People love gold. Who doesn't like making 60k-100+k with minimal effort?!

I did not use the garrison for gold and i stopped playing before i got my armada of gold farmers up to 100 and geared. I didn't do it for the gold. But i still enjoyed the garrison. The main reason it felt wrong for many is that everyone was in their own garrison and not in the towns anymore. But lets face it. Before the garrison came out. Only stormwind and orgrimmar was used. Towns where barren anyways. There is not enough reason to go out from your garrison. That is the problem. Not the garrison itself.

I for one welcome garrison and order hall missions. Not for the gold, But other reasons. And at the end of the day. I would having both missions you could do if you wanted to. And thriving towns.

[PrairieChicken]

Mission tables are huge success, they can maintain subscribers with minimal effort. They are following hearthstone model I guess (0 effort huge profit)

[Irian]

I think a lot of people know this, but there are two reasons why the feelings against them are valid regardless:

1. People tend to associate negative feelings with past experiences. If you played WoD for any length of time, you're probably really goddamn sick of that type of gameplay and don't want to see it. I'm definitely in this category.

2. It adds virtually nothing to the gameplay of World of Warcraft, and doesn't mesh with it at all.

Given the above point, I think most people are just asking....why put it in the game at all? Blizzard, I'm sensing, wants to try to make it work because they developed the system, yet the players are almost unanimously stating that they don't want it and regardless of whether or not it's well implemented it will not be positively received. What they ought to do is implement it in a 7.X patch, or next expansion, so players can have a break from the format.
It also doesn't help that they're using it in some instances to time-gate players behind missions for their order hall quests, and I can tell you right now that people will not be happy about that.

[Mhyroth]

First of all, they were mandatory for 90% of the content you did, while they were promised as optional.
Secondly its a Click-and-Drag Facebook game, if I wanted to play a CnD game I would log onto Facebook. This is an MMORPG were the character progresses, not some stupid followers.
Putting elements from different games into your own game can work, but don't make the entire expansion revolve around it.

[Smank]

1. I have to use the systems to play the game, and in some situations to be on equal footing to others. What kind of argument is this?
.

Are you listening at all? I specifically said that it isn't a bad thing as long as you aren't forced to do it.

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First of all, they were mandatory for 90% of the content you did

I'm not say they weren't, in fact I'm saying that that was a really big part of why a lot of people hate them. If they were optional and didn't give insane rewards from the start, nobody would have minded them at all.

[Deleted]

I would first make the statement that in of itself it isn't a bad thing, it was just that WoD had such a drought of anything to do that is what we did during the time. Even Mop had more content to do.

I agree. Garrisons (and the mission table) would of gotten so so so much less flak if they had of delivered on A) the way they first intended garrisons and B) More Overall content which they could of easily delivered on.

Instead we got absolute bare bones expansion with the only redeeming feature was raid quality whilst every other aspect of the game got completely shafted.

[Damajin]

The entire Garrison is a bad thing, the ONLY thing that has made it tolerable is the insane amount of gold that you can make with it per character and all 16 of my 100s have made many millions worth otherwise I wouldn't even be playing right now.

I hope for Blizzard's sake that the Order Hall missions are the last time we'll see this feature ingame because even with the changes to structure they're doing in Legion it's a shitty system overall that isn't exciting or compelling gameplay.

[melodramocracy]

Yes, some folks enjoy garrison tables (or any element of garrisons, really). Some people enjoy being defecated on as well. Humans truly are a strange bunch.

[khazmodan]

garrisons are awesome if you like to pay 15 dollars a month to click on colorful spread sheets for hours instead of enjoying adventure or battle or...wait a second, what is the name of this game again?

[Shinv]

But you couldn't make the garrison mission tables an effective feature without parts of it being mandatory. So it is a bad feature. People learning to like it because it spoils them to remain relevant is feeding an addiction to keep people playing. Theres nothing good about them in the long of this game. Player housing I still think could be fine in this game people asked for player housing not a mandatory waiting game with nothing else to do around the actual game until raid time.

Honestly though I don't understand where they got the idea to put in the mission tables when people asked for player housing. There just not the same thing and I don't think anyone asked for it.

[Deleted]

WOD garrisons received much justified hate because the whole system was just too rewarding and too alt-intensive.

The whole idea of making gold in WOD involved garrison in nearly everything. I make gold primarily through professions and garrison missions. For maximum output with professions, I need to keep up work orders and do the rush order missions - all professions are directly tied to garrison system, if you want maximum mat efficiency, you HAVE to bother with it. Since all my characters have some crafting professions, I'm pretty much forced to play 11 garrison minigames, even tho I just want to get profession mats, nothing more.

Mission table doesn't bring too much gold on 1 character, but on 11 of them it becomes a minting factory of gold coins. The results are also very consistent on week-by-week basis, varying only by ca. 10% if you have 11 charactetrs and a set-in-stone daily login pattern.

This results in about 1,000,000 gold a month (missions + profit from selling mighty & savage gear upgrades), which is directly tied to garrison system. Basically all the gold I make in WOD is tied to it, since I can't be arsed to run old raids anymore (I already have all the mounts and almost 10 million gold)

1 mil gold a month is 180 EUR worth of tokens. Almost half of my actual monthly salary, because hey it's Poland, 400 EUR isn't bad entry level job here. These rewards are far too large to pass, so I was basically stuck in this garrison carrot stick for ENTIRE wod duration.

Legion is changing that - professions are no longer tied to this bullshit system and there's almost no passive gold to be made with missions. It will completely eliminate the most annoying thing about garrison: the need to log every damn alt every day just to do the god forsaken missions. I'll only ever need those missions when I actually want to play my alt, and that's a whole different story. I WILL play my alts in Legion, esp to collect the MOP CM recolor sets (which are HUGE commitments btw, and no it's not account wide), but I won't be forced to log them for 30 seconds each just to be done with a stupid farmville table.

And that's a distinct difference between Legion and WOD.

[Wondercrab]

Follower systems in MMOs are great. There's a reason WoW adopted them after their great success in other games in the genre. The problem was that Blizzard's version of them, much like most of WoD, was balanced poorly, making them far too rewarding and require players sit around in the garrison to deal with them. The Legion iteration seems like an improvement.

[Thundering]

Its simple most people dont like them and dont want to see them in anyform again. And what does blizzard do offcourse they go the way of reusing stuff as much as possible even when its bad.

[Foj]

The garrison is mostly the only thing that keeps me logging in these days. I would prefer to have some other reason to log in. You know, like, to actually play the game.

But whatever. There's garrison + Overwatch?

[Spunt]

Blizzard will just keep ramming this shit feature down people's throat despite how much it's hated. They will make this round peg fit the square hole even if they have to destroy both of them in the process.

Its just a simple menu game that takes the least amount of effort to produce, its nothing more than a glorified browser game.

[Foj]

Blizzard will just keep ramming this shit feature down people's throat despite how much it's hated.

Where is the evidence that it's generally "hated"?

It seems to me that it keeps people logging in. At this point, no one is logging in to visit a garrison because it's "mandatory," unless you think making as much gold as possible in WoW is "mandatory," which is actually a "your problem" kind of thing.