Woman Refuses Marriage Proposal, Burned to Death

[Kraenen]

I know a lot of people are going to blame Islam on this, but as far as I know, there's really no religious precedent at all for this.

But isn't that the paradox? If it's in literal religion, then people take the defense "it's all up to your interpretation" and that "religions evolve". So why not acknowledge there could be religious precedent, and that you and others and some muslims just don't agree with it?

Just be happy you don't live there, and kind and understanding towards those who wish to leave.

But then that's applying your own sense of morality again.

[Tennis]

Problem: What they did is not exactly a crime in Pakistan. This happens all the time there, with over 1100 similar cases last year alone.

So, they aren't criminals, strictly speaking.

Yes, it's terrible. But when you start trying to apply your own sense of morality to another nation's laws, you invite them to do the same to you.

Just be happy you don't live there, and kind and understanding towards those who wish to leave.

This is unfortunate. All we can do is pray that the situation there improves.

[Polyxo]

But isn't that the paradox? If it's in literal religion, then people take the defense "it's all up to your interpretation" and that "religions evolve". So why not acknowledge there could be religious precedent, and that you and others and some muslims just don't agree with it?



But then that's applying your own sense of morality again.

Well, more specifically, there's no textual justification for it in the Quran. It just seems like certain religious groups in Pakistan just decided on their own "Anything goes against women".

[Shinra1]

Then why does it only happen in Muslim countries or by Muslims in Western Countries?

Please don't ban me Endus. I'm just replying to his comment.

it doesn't only happen in Muslim countries. Women die from male violence all the time in the West.

Violence against women is "an extensive human rights abuse" across Europe with one in three women reporting some form of physical or sexual abuse since the age of 15 and 8% suffering abuse in the last 12 months, according to the largest survey of its kind on the issue.


But yeah you can continue to pretend that violence against women is something that only happens in 'Muslim' countries.

[Reeve]

With shit like this going on in the world I'm still amazed we have a 20+page "slut shaming" thread because some chick was told her shorts were to provocative.

We can influence each other in our own culture a lot more than we can influence the cultures of others. Also, the stuff in our own culture affects us far more directly than the stuff in other cultures. So naturally, we take a great deal more interest in stuff happening in our own countries.

Finally, we can talk about both things.

[PatchworkBBC]

It's largely a modern invention, with relatively shaky religious justification at best. There really is no precedent to kill a woman who refuses someone's hand in marriage. So whoever would justify that religiously is really stretching things, or more likely, just making stuff up.

If you wear a fancy enough hat, some people will believe anything you say about their religion.

[Kathranis]

The criminals should be put to death. Plain and simple.

What they did isn't even strictly illegal. This happens all the time over there. Also common in the region is mutilating women by cutting off their noses, ears, and fingers, or burning them with acid.

[Tennis]

it doesn't only happen in Muslim countries. Women die from male violence all the time in the West.

Violence against women is "an extensive human rights abuse" across Europe with one in three women reporting some form of physical or sexual abuse since the age of 15 and 8% suffering abuse in the last 12 months, according to the largest survey of its kind on the issue.


But yeah you can continue to pretend that murder is something that only happens in 'Muslim' countries.

What's interesting is that I only see stories of crime in the lesser developed countries posted on here while similar crimes in the West are never talked about. Why is that?

[Polyxo]

it doesn't only happen in Muslim countries. Women die from male violence all the time in the West.

Violence against women is "an extensive human rights abuse" across Europe with one in three women reporting some form of physical or sexual abuse since the age of 15 and 8% suffering abuse in the last 12 months, according to the largest survey of its kind on the issue.


But yeah you can continue to pretend that violence against women is something that only happens in 'Muslim' countries.

I don't think people realize it was legal to kill your wife up into the 90s in Brazil.

[Shinra1]

What's interesting is that I only see stories of crime in the lesser developed countries posted on here while similar crimes in the West are never talked about. Why is that?

You know why, Tennisace. I don't have to spell it out.

[Kraenen]

What's interesting is that I only see stories of crime in the lesser developed countries posted on here while similar crimes in the West are never talked about. Why is that?

Because they don't happen as often. Shinra going to hyperbole should clue you in on his motives.

[Deleted]

Well, that's not true. Crazy as fuck stuff is done all the time to women in India by the Hindu population. Honor killings are an unfortunate facet of Christian Lebanese culture now and then. It was also considered acceptable to kill one's wife in certain Catholic countries up until recently.

This ultra-conservative kind of culture in Islamic countries wasn't really a thing until the later 20th century. It's largely a modern invention, with relatively shaky religious justification at best. There really is no precedent to kill a woman who refuses someone's hand in marriage. So whoever would justify that religiously is really stretching things, or more likely, just making stuff up.

I mean I get that but why are honour killings more prevalent in countries with largely muslim populations?

And why are 30 Islamic groups opposing a law criminalizing violence against women in Pakistan as the article says?

Please clarify.

[Tennis]

Because they don't happen as often. Shinra going to hyperbole should clue you in on his motives.

They do happen. People are pushing an agenda against the third world and I don't appreciate it.

[Allerius]

The greatest justice is that those pushing hardest for unfettered immigration (defenseless feminists) will be the ones suffering the most if it comes to pass.

[Polyxo]

I mean I get that but why are honour killings more prevalent in countries with largely muslim populations?

And why are 30 Islamic groups opposing a law criminalizing violence against women in Pakistan as the article says?

Please clarify.

This isn't exactly why, but there just happens to be a modern and shakily justified or completely unjustified streak of social conservatism in Islamic cultures today. There's nothing inherent to Islam that makes this thing more likely to happen. It really is just a 'trend', in the most trivial sense of the word.

[Kathranis]

What's interesting is that I only see stories of crime in the lesser developed countries posted on here while similar crimes in the West are never talked about. Why is that?

Because it's not anywhere near as common here, especially taken to such extremes. There are several countries in the world where revenge and honor killings and other similar acts of violence are effectively legal if not explicitly mandated by local law and tradition. Most of those countries are not in the West.

There's a huge, huge difference between household abuse and institutionalized honor killings and maimings.

[Mizix]

Then why does it only happen in Muslim countries or by Muslims in Western Countries?

It doesn't? Granted, it does happen more often there and it has everything to do with their culture - religion included - but, for example, two days ago an Italian man set fire to his ex girlfriend for dumping him. Honour killing was abrogated in 1981 only and even today it is still considered acceptable - or required - in some subcultures in Italy. This kind of things happens wherever people are uneducated and violent.

[Shinra1]

I don't think people realize it was legal to kill your wife up into the 90s in Brazil.

I'm glad you and Tennisace are here to stifle prejudiced discussions, it's good seeing this thread having positive discussion for once that doesn't paint ALL minorities with the same brush.

[Tennis]

Because it's not anywhere near as common here, especially taken to such extremes. There are several countries in the world where revenge and honor killings and other similar acts of violence are effectively legal if not explicitly mandated by local law and tradition. Most of those countries are not in the West.

There's a huge, huge difference between household abuse and institutionalized honor killings and maimings.

Violence is violence. There's other types of violence in the West which is much more common than in other parts of the world.

[GMZohar1]

Comments that say stuff like "With stuff like this in the world happening, I can't believe people still talk about Politics or movie stars etc.." So umm.. Why you on MMO then? Shouldn't you be sitting around somewhere thinking about what happened to this women? Guess we shouldn't play video games anymore cause that time can be used thinking about this... Watch TV? Nope I gotta sit here and think about this.. Was gonna go to the Gym but nope I needa sit here and think about this...

Just cause shit like this happens doesn't mean everyone in the world should stop doing things they love or like. Of course people think about stuff like this but that don't mean we can't talk about other shit......