Mcree nerf

[TheWindWalker]

No, just no. That's like saying a rogue has a purpose, but a warrior can be a rogue too. Sorry, one is a stealthy assassin and one is just a strong close range duelist.

Reaper uses loud shotguns, his teleport is audible to the enemies, his wraith forms makes cloth-flapping sounds the whole time. McCree is more of a "drop in, kill, disappear" character than Reaper.

[Mormolyce]

Yes please buff D.Va, she totally needs it.

*Keeps straight face*

SHHHHhhhhh shut up guys! Let them do it!

On McCree, I completely agree, he's overall fine because he's designed to counter speedy assassins, but he is unintentionally good vs tanks. They can probably find a way to nerf the latter without neutering him in the former.

[Kelimbror]

Yes, just yes.

Like I said, a McCree can fill whatever role a Reaper would be filling, and then some. Reaper has a slightly different set of options and advantages on certain maps due to the teleport, but you can have a McCree flanking and ambushing just the same.

*sigh*

No. This is an intentionally obtuse argument. You could say that for any character. Oh hey, I can press W, avoid contact, and become a stealthy assassin. Nooo. Game design doesn't work that way. People should stop using subjective misinformation to try and comment on game design. It just makes for rather poor conversations.

[Drunkenvalley]

*sigh*

No. This is an intentionally obtuse argument. You could say that for any character. Oh hey, I can press W, avoid contact, and become a stealthy assassin. Nooo. Game design doesn't work that way. People should stop using subjective misinformation to try and comment on game design. It just makes for rather poor conversations.

Then read what others have said, rather than be daft about it. McCree is stealthier than Reaper. He doesn't announce his presence at every turn via sound, unlike Reaper whose every movement and action is incredibly loud.

What you're calling sneaky is someone who walks around with a guy behind him on a tuba playing his theme-song. That's sneaky? Are you serious?

Accurate description of Reaper:

[Cebel]

I'm not minding her main weapon, it's the fact that her SMG is also strong enough that Widowmaker, along with her 200 hp, is actually in a position to repel someone trying to have a go at her in close quarters, which is where she as a long range sniper should have a weakness... but she doesn't.

her AR/SMG fire is weak as fuck, if you make it any weaker you might as well get rid of it.

[Tojara]

McCree currently invalidates some of the other offensive heroes, basically 76 and Reaper. He kills tanks just as good as well Reaper can, and his long and mid range capabilities are pretty underrated by a lot of people. For most purposes his left click isn't going to have damage fall off unless you're attacking a Widow or Hanzo, most of the game takes place within 40 meters, meaning that the damage drop off from his left click isn't going to apply. Hit scan pistol that does pretty nice damage.

His kit really doesn't need nerfing though because his flash bang is needed to duel other offensive characters, mostly to keep Genji and Tracer in line. I suppose the best change they could do is make fan do less damage overall, basically meaning that each bullet that lands does less and less damage. The heroes he's designed to kill have between 150-250 health, so having fan do less damage, even considerably less would make him weaker against tanks. Currently fan does 420 damage not counting armor or head shots, which is just way too high. If it did something like 300 it would probably be way more balanced and not really change the role he's suppose to be good at.

They probably won't change his left click, but I still think his damage drop off should happen at a lot shorter range than 40 meters.

[Zelendria]

Then read what others have said, rather than be daft about it. McCree is stealthier than Reaper. He doesn't announce his presence at every turn via sound, unlike Reaper whose every movement and action is incredibly loud.

You're joking right? McCree has some of THE loudest footsteps in the game, and being as he's the only hero wearing spurs, it's not hard to figure out exactly whose boots are walking around in that room you're about to enter....

[Very Tired]

It's funny to consider McCree would actually be weaker if they made his flash bang do 400 damage and just removed his rightclick.

[Halyon]

No, just no. That's like saying a rogue has a purpose, but a warrior can be a rogue too. Sorry, one is a stealthy assassin and one is just a strong close range duelist.

Except Reaper has 0 stealth. He can't go invisible. At all. NO STEALTH. He relies on ambushing or sneaking up on isolated targets (snipers or other stationary things). Sure, he can sneak up on people, but guess what, most other characters can as well. Just don't get as close as he needs to, and still do close to the same damage, and ain't next to useless at longer range...

Also Reaper's a Screamer and his guns are loud as fuck...

[KaPe]

You're joking right? McCree has some of THE loudest footsteps in the game, and being as he's the only hero wearing spurs, it's not hard to figure out exactly whose boots are walking around in that room you're about to enter....

Are those footsteps louder than Reaper yells? Does he also need to pause for three seconds after doing that instead of instantly stunning and killing his target?

Obviously he's not as stealthy as Genji, but compared to Reaper... no.

[Anzaman]

You're joking right? McCree has some of THE loudest footsteps in the game, and being as he's the only hero wearing spurs, it's not hard to figure out exactly whose boots are walking around in that room you're about to enter....

From what I've seen, most people ignore footstep sounds completely.

Makes me want to facepalm while spectating team and then enemy just walks behind and kills, without target reacting to it.

[Halyon]

From what I've seen, most people ignore footstep sounds completely.

Makes me want to facepalm while spectating team and then enemy just walks behind and kills, without target reacting to it.

I'm paranoid and I -always- listen to footsteps. Hell, I always shoot at anything that comes at me around a corner for good measure...

[Zelendria]

Are those footsteps louder than Reaper yells? Does he also need to pause for three seconds after doing that instead of instantly stunning and killing his target?

Obviously he's not as stealthy as Genji, but compared to Reaper... no.

Do footsteps only make noise as often as Reaper shouts about teleport?
If you're a backline hero, WM comes to mind, and you got flanked by McCree then you're deaf and stupid.

1. For not covering the potential route to you with a trap
2. For not hearing a single footstep of him approaching as he makes his way though building to get up to you
3. For not using your hook to simply move elsewhere before he gets to you
4. For not using a inaccessible ledge to someone who can't climb walls or teleport

There's a reason McCree is down as an anti flanker not a flanker himself.

[Testiro]

https://youtu.be/ZOcf86h7LEc

[Dawnrage]

Some of the exaggerations here are insane. I guess people are so mad that he's unparalleled at close-range combat when he has his fan/roll/fan combo that they are just making up a bunch of shit without actually playing him.

I mean really, some of the shit I'm reading...his left click is a sniper shot without scope? He's better than reaper at flanking? I must be playing a different game from you guys.

I get it, his stun is bullshit since people hate losing control of their characters and fan's damage is insane and the spread isn't wide enough, but please start playing the game (ideally Mccree so you can see his strengths and weaknesses and not just get killed by some random Mccree combo and think he's the most op shit ever) instead of being keyboard heroes on the forums and hoping no one calls out your bullshit.

[George Costanza]

Tracer needs a nerf.

[Deleted]

After reading these 10 pages I'm starting to think that many people are somehow hoping and at the same time fooling themsleves that Mccree will be nerfed to the point where he will not FB-Fan anyone anymore. That's just not going to happen unless they redesign his abilities from the ground, another thing not likely to happen.
Everything Mccree has in terms survivability/mobility/dmg is built around his FB-FtH combo potential, so changing that drastically and allowing every hero to survive it/have a fight back at it will just wreck the hero completely. Yes Mccree is a strong hero, and at the same he is potentially the most fragile one if you know how to deal with him, which funny enough that knowledge mostly comes from having played him for a while. Predicting where a mccree would be is not rocket science if you have played one and know that a lethal corner is this or that one, and it is delicious to wreck other mccrees dreams by baiting them in their own territory.

It's completely fair and I welcome the nerf of FtH on tanks if they go that way, hell they could even build in his weapon a decreased FtH dmg to tanks for what I care, but all the other heroes will be Full to 0 in the combo. Otherwise it's true what people say, Tracers/Genjis will be unstoppable.

His left click is nowhere near as strong as it's depicted. Personally I think Mccree left click is just as strong as Mei right click at medium/long range. You nail headshots with those at medium/long range and anything that's not a tank is dead. So yeah nerfing one and not the other would be just wrong. I dont' think either should be changed personally.

His Ultimate is frankly the most obvious and predictable of all. Yes it's an unforgiving one, you fail to realize where it's coming from and you are dead, but is a good Death Blossom any different? or a good stickied Tracer Bomb? No they are very much alike if you cannot see them coming and the enemy is smart enough to surprise you. Personally I find Mccree ultimate just as unforgiving to Mccree himself. Once he ults he is the most vulnerable hero ever, he has a "shoot me now" on the head. And yes zero him before he does is one of the best way to deal with his ultimate unless you are sure hiding is better.

I think the change will really only affect tanks survivability at the end and Mccree will still be, as expected, a deadly 1v1 anti-flanker hero.

[Jessicka]

Tracer needs a nerf.

Tracer does not need a nerf. I have huge respect for the livers of those able to consume enough energy drink to be able to play her well.

[Poppincaps]

I think they are on point with what his problems his. He shouldn't be able to shred tanks like he is currently able. It makes him too well rounded. I think they should reduce the damage of each fan the hammer shot by 10 (I believe it does 60 per shot right?) So that he has to hit more shots in order to straight up kill someone and makes it not just a free kill. Reaper for instance would take 5 shots from fan the hammer to kill, which a good McCree would still hit during the flashbang, but it makes it so he has a chance to get out of the stun and wraith walk away.

[Zelendria]

70 per shot. As you can see 420, roll, 420 is waay more than a tank has.
Technically given how big the hitbox is on tanks, even taking it to 50 (So 300dmg per fan is realistic on a tank) is still enough to kill every hero in game.
The problem lies, as you continually reduce the dmg, is that slender targets are considerably more difficult to land all 6 shots. If you take the dmg too low you will actually cause him to struggle killing everybody in his face.