Arms Legion Discussion

[Caargon]

Feeling forced is good enough reason for me. For first few months u will have only 9 points to spend on artifact perks. And now by the looks of it u will have to go up to Shattered Defenses.

You might have an argument if we were limited to so many traits. Eventually we're gonna have the entire tree filled. Who cares whether one route of getting there is better than another? You're gonna have to keep getting power for the rest of it anyway.

[Deleted]

You might have an argument if we were limited to so many traits. Eventually we're gonna have the entire tree filled. Who cares whether one route of getting there is better than another? You're gonna have to keep getting power for the rest of it anyway.

That's not my point. My point was, buff to % per rage spend, and nerf to perk. That would balance out bad RNG without perk, and you would still like to have it eventually, but doesn't feel forced right away, cuz there are many other interesting perks.

[Khelon]

Feeling forced is good enough reason for me. For first few months u will have only 9 points to spend on artifact perks. And now by the looks of it u will have to go up to Shattered Defenses.

First few months? Do you have beta access? Because it doesnt sound like you do.

Leveling alone will give you enough for 10 levels on your artifact weapon. And thats a very slow way of gaining artifact power, max level content gives a lot more if you do it right.

[Archimtiros]

Feeling forced is good enough reason for me. For first few months u will have only 9 points to spend on artifact perks. And now by the looks of it u will have to go up to Shattered Defenses.

Really doesn't matter, because you were going to go up towards Shattered Defenses anyway.

Despite how much we try to, you can't balance everything completely. The game is just far too complicated for it to work out so that every choice is an absolute equal. This is why you see them rarely care about the (old world) leveling experience - it's not the focus of the game.

Similarly, the artifact trait paths you can take are not all equal. Exploit the weakness isn't even the major culprit, just look at the lower half of the Arms artifact (the AoE path), it's fucking horrible, and there's little reason to grind for it even after gaining all the other artifact traits. That's ok though, because the game is only partially balanced around what happens when you have half your spec complete, while the main focus is on the end result.

[Deleted]

First few months? Do you have beta access? Because it doesnt sound like you do.

Leveling alone will give you enough for 10 levels on your artifact weapon. And thats a very slow way of gaining artifact power, max level content gives a lot more if you do it right.

I had alpha acces thank you for asking. And ill tell you what happened there. U could have million artifact power, and anyone with spare time can grind those pretty easly. But there was a thing called knowledge power. So on the first level, you had limited amount of points to spend on perks. So you could go to Shattered Defenses or to Corrupted blood or Void cleave, but u couldn't have all 3. I'm not 100% sure, but the first tier of Legion your artifact weapon will be locked for a certain amount of points you can put in perks, next tier you will unlock more. Kinda the same as it was with Leg ring in WoD. Leg ring in WoD would lose all his meaning if they gave you 795 with extra effect on it in Highmaul right? Exactly

[Khelon]

I had alpha acces thank you for asking. And ill tell you what happened there. U could have million artifact power, and anyone with spare time can grind those pretty easly. But there was a thing called knowledge power. So on the first level, you had limited amount of points to spend on perks. So you could go to Shattered Defenses or to Corrupted blood or Void cleave, but u couldn't have all 3. I'm not 100% sure, but the first tier of Legion your artifact weapon will be locked for a certain amount of points you can put in perks, next tier you will unlock more. Kinda the same as it was with Leg ring in WoD. Leg ring in WoD would lose all his meaning if they gave you 795 with extra effect on it in Highmaul right? Exactly

The 1 million cost thing was removed about 2 months ago, you can unluck all the artifacts on the pve realm as long as you keep grinding it and the curve was also reduced by a lot. Each level of exploit weakness back then used to cost about 900 artifact power and increasing by 100 per level or so (assuming you went that path to begin with ofc), but now its lowered to 425/450/475.

They could put this limited amount of abilities thing back, but I really dont think they will as far too many classes will be gimped for just having one major trait when the class is supposed to be balanced around having every single trait unlocked.

If you havent already, go level a character for a bit, you'll see how easy it is to unlock traits now compared to back then.

[Deleted]

The 1 million cost thing was removed about 2 months ago, you can unluck all the artifacts on the pve realm as long as you keep grinding it and the curve was also reduced by a lot. Each level of exploit weakness back then used to cost about 900 artifact power and increasing by 100 per level or so (assuming you went that path to begin with ofc), but now its lowered to 425/450/475.

They could put this limited amount of abilities thing back, but I really dont think they will as far too many classes will be gimped for just having one major trait when the class is supposed to be balanced around having every single trait unlocked.

If you havent already, go level a character for a bit, you'll see how easy it is to unlock traits now compared to back then.

Do u have trouble understanding what I'm saying or? I never said there was an issue getting artifact power, before or now. I'm saying that you couldn't pass a certain point, it was limited how far can u go. So I'm assuming artifact weapons are similar to leg ring in WoD, where you upgrade it steadily thru expansion. And they don't care if specs are balanced around traits, did they give you set bonuses in Highmaul? Also here is another example. Talents were with us for ages from vanilla. Now they decided to put some scribe item if you want to retalent or u have to go back to the main city to swap, just so talents can be meaningful. Artifact perks are brand new thing first time introduced in Legion, and u are telling me u could have ALL of the perks like 1 week into new expansion (assuming u have time to grind artifact power day and night) ??

[Khelon]

Do u have trouble understanding what I'm saying or?

Not at all.

I never said there was an issue getting artifact power, before or now. I'm saying that you couldn't pass a certain point, it was limited how far can u go. So I'm assuming artifact weapons are similar to leg ring in WoD, where you upgrade it steadily thru expansion.

I know you said that & that was the 1 million or whatever cost in artifact power for the next trait once you reached a certain point. This was removed and the "exp curve" was reduced by a lot.

And they don't care if specs are balanced around traits?

They do, even if you like it or not that will be one form of nerfing/buffing a class. If one trait is powerful you would want a relic slot that gives you another level on that slot and then if it becomes a problem they could just nerf the trait rather than the baseline spec.

Talents were with us for ages from vanilla. Now they decided to put some scribe item if you want to retalent or u have to go back to the main city to swap, just so talents can be meaningful. Artifact perks are brand new thing first time introduced in Legion, and u are telling me u could have ALL of the perks like 1 week into new expansion (assuming u have time to grind artifact power day and night) ??

Would that be a problem? You probably wont be able to max out all traits within one week, but Im sure if nothing changes from the current system, there will be people who have their weapon maxed 3 weeks in (not counting those 0.5% dmg increase levels, those are very minor).

You have to remember that a player who plays about 3-4 hours a day should be able to finish his weapon within a month or two. If you make it any longer than this, how will this person start on his 2nd weapon or 3rd? You cant expect someone to spend almost 5 months finishing his weapons when the spec is balanced around having all traits.

Artifact weapon just gives you a sense of progression at max level, where as previously you get to max level and you can try out your new talents.

[Caargon]

Do u have trouble understanding what I'm saying or? I never said there was an issue getting artifact power, before or now. I'm saying that you couldn't pass a certain point, it was limited how far can u go. So I'm assuming artifact weapons are similar to leg ring in WoD, where you upgrade it steadily thru expansion. And they don't care if specs are balanced around traits, did they give you set bonuses in Highmaul? Also here is another example. Talents were with us for ages from vanilla. Now they decided to put some scribe item if you want to retalent or u have to go back to the main city to swap, just so talents can be meaningful. Artifact perks are brand new thing first time introduced in Legion, and u are telling me u could have ALL of the perks like 1 week into new expansion (assuming u have time to grind artifact power day and night) ??

Stop thinking of the artifact powers as separate from your character. This is the only weapon you will have the entire expansion. It is, for all intents and purposes, a core part of your spec and you will be balanced around it.

[Deleted]

Would that be a problem? You probably wont be able to max out all traits within one week, but Im sure if nothing changes from the current system, there will be people who have their weapon maxed 3 weeks in (not counting those 0.5% dmg increase levels, those are very minor).

You have to remember that a player who plays about 3-4 hours a day should be able to finish his weapon within a month or two. If you make it any longer than this, how will this person start on his 2nd weapon or 3rd? You cant expect someone to spend almost 5 months finishing his weapons when the spec is balanced around having all traits.

Artifact weapon just gives you a sense of progression at max level, where as previously you get to max level and you can try out your new talents.

As I mythic raider I don't have a problem with all perks being unlocked the first day, and all u need to do is grind. However I'm also having a casual side, which would prefer steady expand of perks thru patches, so I have something to look forward. But judging by last two expansion, MoP where u had cloak which you had to upgrade thru patches, also leg ring in WoD, I think I might be right, cuz on gamescon they said "artifact weapon will be your wod leg ring in legion". And if they put all perks right away, there could be some hidden perks which you would reveal next patch. I don't think artifact perks tree as u see it now is set in stone, they might add another perk tree somewhere in next patch.

[Archimtiros]

Not at all.

I do. Third grade grammar makes my head hurt.

[Deleted]

I do. Third grade grammar makes my head hurt.

Well warriors are definitely not known for their intellectual prowess. Might I suggest taking a visit to Arcane Mages forum?

[Rorke]

Arms Warriors do not need self healing.

[kimicate]

Arms Warriors do not need self healing.

For PVE yes! If you know how to manage SW, its one of the best talents in the game.

For PVP....

[Murlocbait]

For PVE yes! If you know how to manage SW, its one of the best talents in the game.

For PVP....

Don't feed the troll please.

[Rorke]

I'm not trolling. Giving Arms healing in PvP would make it grossly overtuned. Arms deals way too much burst damage to be given constant self healing. It would be like giving a Fire mage DK self healing. It's not good for the game to give every spec self healing, especially those that have a stance that gives them 20% damage reduction while being able to dish out burst that can kill people in 3-5 globals.

[Haveth]

As I mythic raider I don't have a problem with all perks being unlocked the first day, and all u need to do is grind. However I'm also having a casual side, which would prefer steady expand of perks thru patches, so I have something to look forward. But judging by last two expansion, MoP where u had cloak which you had to upgrade thru patches, also leg ring in WoD, I think I might be right, cuz on gamescon they said "artifact weapon will be your wod leg ring in legion". And if they put all perks right away, there could be some hidden perks which you would reveal next patch. I don't think artifact perks tree as u see it now is set in stone, they might add another perk tree somewhere in next patch.

I expect what will end up happening is that there will be a certain number of traits that you will be able to unlock realistically and semi-easily before raids launch; you can grind out more artifact power for traits, but at some point the next rank will be out of reach unless you grind a ton of dungeons. At that time it would probably be wiser to spend power on your secondary artifact and get it nearly up to par with your main artifact, namely unlocking a golden dragon or two.

Then once raids release artifact power generation will go up from boss kills, and catchup mechanics like gradual reward increase, and those knowledge books and progressing your main artifact further will become more realistic.

[Deleted]

I do. Third grade grammar makes my head hurt.

Your ego makes my head hurt.

[Archimtiros]

Your ego makes my head hurt.

Better quit while you're ahead then; that's the first sentence you've spelled right all night.

[Deleted]

Better quit while you're ahead then; that's the first sentence you've spelled right all night.

Ouch someones ego is hurt