Protection legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Though we have already discussed how Last Stand is a poor CD especially in Legion, I would like to point out something silly I had just done on beta that I assume is almost always the optimal way of using it.

I have made a /cancelaura macro for LS that removes it as soon as I cast it. It is effectively a 30% HP heal now (to be fair, increased with artifact), with a long ass CD. Removing the buff right after cast means I don't take reduced rage from hits, but I don't get the max health increase. Unless you are using it to buffer getting fucked in advance (good to do right now on WoD with 4-set, but not in Legion without something making LS powerful) it's useless to sit with the extra HP cap. It's really depressing that one of our longest cooldowns best ways of being used is to immediately remove it.

Interesting timing that you would speak about that right now. On the official feedback thread someone just posted feedback concerning last stand that would diminish the effet of your idea if it turns out to be true. Here is the quote.

On live when last stand is used, your max health increases by 30% and your current health is increased by the same value; then, when last stand expires, your current health value is maintained, unless that total would exceed your normal max health.

For ease of explanation, lets say you have 100k max hp and use last stand on live; if you are at 30k hp and use last stand, your current health will move to 60k hp and your max will be 130k. If nothing else happens, when last stand ends your current health will stay at 60k hp with your normal max of 100k.

On Beta, in the same situation, when last stand expires, you instead maintain your current % of max health instead of absolute health. In the same case as above when last stand is up 60k of 130k is 46.15% health, so when last stand expires you'll be at 46.15k of 100k.

If this is true (am not in beta so can't test) it would seem that blizzard tought about using it as a heal to some extend. This is another weird change. Can someone actually test if this is how last stand works now ?

[Cylunaria]

If this is true (am not in beta so can't test) it would seem that blizzard tought about using it as a heal to some extend. This is another weird change. Can someone actually test if this is how last stand works now ?

Yeah I hadn't actually bothered to test it and assumed it had still worked based on live functionality (it hadn't got me killed yet!). It does indeed work as that person described. I assume this is either unintended, but if intentional then I'm a sad panda.

[Murlocbait]

That seems like some dumb as fuck functionality to me...

[Beardyface]

Yeah I hadn't actually bothered to test it and assumed it had still worked based on live functionality (it hadn't got me killed yet!). It does indeed work as that person described. I assume this is either unintended, but if intentional then I'm a sad panda.

Holy good god. Add in the 30% additional from Will to Survive and you lose even more health when Last Stand ends. I don't.. I .. just... what??? This is why I think about quitting this game entirely. These devs are clearly far too inept to design any game, let alone one this complex.

Might be a good question for the theorycrafting thread:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...16?page=28#545

[Shenkz]

where the fuck is Greg Street when you need him?

[Murlocbait]

where the fuck is Greg Street when you need him?

Laughing his ass off and shouting "You love me now, bitches!" at the top of his lungs? Would be my guess (for the record, I always thought he was alright - the level of communication he brought was unparalleled and much missed since his departure).

[Valkaneer]

Holy good god. Add in the 30% additional from Will to Survive and you lose even more health when Last Stand ends. I don't.. I .. just... what??? This is why I think about quitting this game entirely. These devs are clearly far too inept to design any game, let alone one this complex.

Might be a good question for the theorycrafting thread:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...16?page=28#545

Well it works the way in Legion that it has for most of Wow, you get the hp, then lose it when the buff ends. I'm not complaining about something working the way it has for most of the game. I would worry about other things, like second wind, now that is something not working as it always has and Prot not having access to it.

BTW Been playing a DK for the last few days, and holy crap can I take on a damn army of mobs and kill them all ending with full life. It's like the more mobs I have on me the harder it is to kill me.

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Bone Storm is beast, ticks heal me for every mob hit......

[Beardyface]

Well it works the way in Legion that it has for most of Wow, you get the hp, then lose it when the buff ends. I'm not complaining about something working the way it has for most of the game.

No, on live, you don't lose the health you gained from the heal portion, just what you gained from max health. Right now in Legion when Last Stand ends it's like taking damage. You don't just lose the max health gain, you lose current health.

I would worry about other things, like second wind, now that is something not working as it always has and Prot not having access to it.

I think the reason we... wait... WHAT??

[Valkaneer]

No, on live, you don't lose the health you gained from the heal portion, just what you gained from max health. Right now in Legion when Last Stand ends it's like taking damage. You don't just lose the max health gain, you lose current health.



I think the reason we... wait... WHAT??

Na man for most of Wow that HP fell off with the buff. Yes it works that way in WoD but it didn't for Vanilla, BC, WotLK etc.

On second wind, you use to get healed anytime you fell below 30% hp, and that's no longer they way it is. Now you get healed anytime your don't take damage for longer than 5 seconds, but you don't have to be out of combat, and prot does not have access to it.

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Oh, and it can heal you to full.

[Beardyface]

Na man for most of Wow that HP fell off with the buff. Yes it works that way in WoD but it didn't for Vanilla, BC, WotLK etc.

On second wind, you use to get healed anytime you fell below 30% hp, and that's no longer they way it is. Now you get healed anytime your don't take damage for longer than 5 seconds, but you don't have to be out of combat, and prot does not have access to it.

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Oh, and it can heal you to full.

This is Second Wind in Legion:

Second Wind

We don't want that. It's useless. You do have to be out of combat. It's bugged on dot damage though, it still triggers if you have a dot. It does nothing when you're taking damage directly. Good for Arms. Super, super bad for prot, and really easy to see why.

[Deleted]

Can someone actually test if this is how last stand works now ?

Test 1 with maxed artifact weapon. (60% LS)
Max health is 1992k before LS. I damaged myself to roughly 50% to test.

Before LS: 921k/1992k Health
With LS: 2117k/3188k Health
After LS: 1323/1992k Health

Test 2 with maxed artifact weapon. (60% LS)
Max health is 1992k before LS. I damaged myself to roughly 20% to test.

Before LS: 380k/1992k Health
With LS: 1576k/3188k Health
After LS: 985k/1992k Health

Test 1 without artifact weapon (30% LS)
Max health is 1341k before LS. I damaged myself to roughly 50% to test.

Before LS: 663k/1341k
With LS: 1065k/1743k
After LS: 819k/1341k

Test 2 without artifact weapon (30% LS)
Max health is 1341k before LS. I damaged myself to roughly 20% to test.

Before LS: 267k/1341k
With LS: 669k/1743k
After LS: 514k/1341k

[Valkaneer]

This is Second Wind in Legion:

Second Wind

We don't want that. It's useless. You do have to be out of combat. It's bugged on dot damage though, it still triggers if you have a dot. It does nothing when you're taking damage directly. Good for Arms. Super, super bad for prot, and really easy to see why.

Unless it's bugged you're incorrect on how it works. First time I tried an Arms warrior you have to kill a Pit Lord before you can get into your class hall. It becomes a one on one fight, just you and him, I was able to survived due to second wind, because I was able to Leap away and kite him, which healed me to full, and I did it 3 times. Was never out of combat once, and it healed me to full 2 times. Which means you could use it (if it was available) as a tank if your kiting just like you do when your trying to drop stacks.

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And if it was usable for prot it would be the best option you would have available for something that healed.

[Ashenia]

Unless it's bugged you're incorrect on how it works. First time I tried an Arms warrior you have to kill a Pit Lord before you can get into your class hall. It becomes a one on one fight, just you and him, I was able to survived due to second wind, because I was able to Leap away and kite him, which healed me to full, and I did it 3 times. Was never out of combat once, and it healed me to full 2 times. Which means you could use it (if it was available) as a tank if your kiting just like you do when your trying to drop stacks.

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And if it was usable for prot it would be the best option you would have available for something that healed.

It was available for Prot and because nobody liked it, it was removed from Protection tree for Impending Victory. It was only useful for slower pace leveling where you wanted to give it a bit between pulls, nothing more (as dot/heal periods were too rare anyway).

[Beardyface]

Unless it's bugged you're incorrect on how it works. First time I tried an Arms warrior you have to kill a Pit Lord before you can get into your class hall. It becomes a one on one fight, just you and him, I was able to survived due to second wind, because I was able to Leap away and kite him, which healed me to full, and I did it 3 times. Was never out of combat once, and it healed me to full 2 times. Which means you could use it (if it was available) as a tank if your kiting just like you do when your trying to drop stacks.

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And if it was usable for prot it would be the best option you would have available for something that healed.

Sorry, you're right, you don't have to be out of combat, but everything else I said stands. You would never be able to kite like that in a dungeon or raid. Too much damage from too many sources going on.

[Valkaneer]

Sorry, you're right, you don't have to be out of combat, but everything else I said stands. You would never be able to kite like that in a dungeon or raid. Too much damage from too many sources going on.

Well that's very possibly correct, all depends on how it could be used. Meaning if got a bubble or Disc shield but your still tanking, so long as you don't take damage against your actual HP an it would heal you that would be possibly useful. A small heal is more than we have now. I mean seriously have you seen the DK's? My Dk on beta is just a beast, I think ST dps is lower than the warrior but AoE and being able to heal yourself so long as you have the Rune Power to do it is gold compared to how the warrior is working. I mean how would you like to heal yourself so long as you have 40 rage to spend on that heal?

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It was available for Prot and because nobody liked it, it was removed from Protection tree for Impending Victory. It was only useful for slower pace leveling where you wanted to give it a bit between pulls, nothing more (as dot/heal periods were too rare anyway).

Impending Victory is trash if your MT though and have no adds. You also have to get last hit which means you pretty much never get to use it. They need to change how it works or just remove it and give us something that compares to other tanks.

[Zasriel]

You also have to get last hit which means you pretty much never get to use it. They need to change how it works or just remove it and give us something that compares to other tanks.

Wrong. The new version is useable whenever. It still refreshes the CD if you last hit something. So it's essentially a 30-second, 15% Max HP on demand heal, which is why I said you'd want to pair with LS usage.

[Valkaneer]

Wrong. The new version is useable whenever. It still refreshes the CD if you last hit something. So it's essentially a 30-second, 15% Max HP on demand heal, which is why I said you'd want to pair with LS usage.

Yep is see it now, I must not have had enough rage when I used it the first time, and not been paying enough attention. But still having to last hit sucks with a 30 sec cd, since Bone Storm heals for every single mob you hit every tick for the duration. Anger Management should replace Battle Cry with Impending Victory since I have yet to see any thing from Battle Cry that actually helps mitigate damage. IDK maybe my crit rate is to low for Battle Cry to help, but always seems to be a flat 15% so far when I use IV.

[Ashenia]

Yep is see it now, I must not have had enough rage when I used it the first time, and not been paying enough attention. But still having to last hit sucks with a 30 sec cd, since Bone Storm heals for every single mob you hit every tick for the duration. Anger Management should replace Battle Cry with Impending Victory since I have yet to see any thing from Battle Cry that actually helps mitigate damage. IDK maybe my crit rate is to low for Battle Cry to help, but always seems to be a flat 15% so far when I use IV.

This is actually worth mentioning on feedback forum, it would move that talent higher in rank for raid environment. As you got beta access, I will wait for you to do it instead of quote'ing.

Although I would prefer either lower rage cost or higher % as it is a talent that costs precious rage, which isn't always there.

[captiva]

That seems like some dumb as fuck functionality to me...

Kinda like this class design Dev team...

[Valkaneer]

This is actually worth mentioning on feedback forum, it would move that talent higher in rank for raid environment. As you got beta access, I will wait for you to do it instead of quote'ing.

Although I would prefer either lower rage cost or higher % as it is a talent that costs precious rage, which isn't always there.

Done, if you want to add any thoughts feel free.