Protection legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Another feedback avenue! Flood the thread with some questions about RFDT and how it scales negatively from maximum health increases. Or whatever you want, I suppose, but RFDT is by far our most pressing issue IMHO.

Here's my post. Feel free to post your own, or help me out by rating my post:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...688?page=9#165

you sure they are even gonna read that with the 40 words of less requirement? :P

not that i expect them to answer any real questions in this, it reeks of a PR device rather then a platform for in depth technical questions.

[Beardyface]

you sure they are even gonna read that with the 40 words of less requirement? :P

not that i expect them to answer any real questions in this, it reeks of a PR device rather then a platform for in depth technical questions.

Yeah, I moved the question to the top.

[Heladys]

Yeah, I moved the question to the top.

Good work throughout this, and thank you for it. I gave you my upvote as well.

[Agromat]

Why move protection rage generation back to a model that causes us to generate less rage as we gear up in any given tier? Will constant tweaks be made to keep Protection Warriors in line with other tanks?

I hope Blizzard answers your question. It's well phrased. Upvoted.

For what it's worth, here's what I think the answers are:

"Although Warriors generate less rage as their health and mitigation increases, that loss is more than offset by gains to their survivability from increased attack power, crit, and haste. So gearing up still makes you stronger overall, and you'll still get more rage when you need it most.

"All tanks' active self-healing goes down as their mitigation improves - rage is just the most visible mechanism through which this happens. As a result, tweaks won't be necessary to keep Warriors consistent with other tanks."

[Ashenia]

Another feedback avenue! Flood the thread with some questions about RFDT and how it scales negatively from maximum health increases. Or whatever you want, I suppose, but RFDT is by far our most pressing issue IMHO.

Here's my post. Feel free to post your own, or help me out by rating my post:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...688?page=9#165

Not hoping for much, but wish you luck mate. Glad that someone is still trying to do it.

[Coffeh]

Does the 'Inspiring Presence' talent, which grants 3% leach to allies, also apply to the prot warrior? Or do just your allies get that leach effect? So if you're playing solo the talent would do absolutely nothing for you?

[Cylunaria]

Does the 'Inspiring Presence' talent, which grants 3% leach to allies, also apply to the prot warrior? Or do just your allies get that leach effect? So if you're playing solo the talent would do absolutely nothing for you?

well I mean you do at least get a good ol' visit from Jack and his shit.

[Coffeh]

well I mean you do at least get a good ol' visit from Jack and his shit.

It took me entirely too long to figure out what that meant.

[Ashenia]

It took me entirely too long to figure out what that meant.

Easier translation - we get nothing.

[Zasriel]

Has anyone posted any more about how Last Stand is utter shit now - compared to how it is on Live? Or was that determined to be a Bug?

[Deleted]

btw does anybody know if our ultimate artifact trait is supposed to be health increase or the armor it currently shows on the calculator?

[FenixAU]

btw does anybody know if our ultimate artifact trait is supposed to be health increase or the armor it currently shows on the calculator?

Armor increase.

[Deleted]

got a source on that? its pretty odd considering everybody elses is health, damage or healing, which is also what the blue post said. palas seem to have armor too but its still quite odd.

[Ultramad]

Well the paladin one is also Armor atm.

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They might not be looking for 1:1 parity in that department. Maybe they think the extra armor fits thematically better with the shield tanks. I can only guess.

[Nihilanth]

Is execute back for protection warriors? I notice the Death Sentence (execute causes you to charge to your target) pvp talent for prot warriors in the talent calculator.

[Beardyface]

got a source on that? its pretty odd considering everybody elses is health, damage or healing, which is also what the blue post said. palas seem to have armor too but its still quite odd.

My understanding was that these are two separate things. Every time you spend points on an artifact trait, you passively gain stamina, and once you've filled out the whole tree you can put additional points into Unbreakable Bulwark.

Someone would have to test it, though, to be sure.

- - - Updated - - -

Is execute back for protection warriors? I notice the Death Sentence (execute causes you to charge to your target) pvp talent for prot warriors in the talent calculator.

I don't see it in the PvP Talent Tree on Wowhead. I would imagine it's been removed, though I don't really keep up with PvP.

http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-pvp/warrior/protection

It is in the arms and fury trees, though.

[Valkaneer]

I hope Blizzard answers your question. It's well phrased. Upvoted.

For what it's worth, here's what I think the answers are:

"Although Warriors generate less rage as their health and mitigation increases, that loss is more than offset by gains to their survivability from increased attack power, crit, and haste. So gearing up still makes you stronger overall, and you'll still get more rage when you need it most.

"All tanks' active self-healing goes down as their mitigation improves - rage is just the most visible mechanism through which this happens. As a result, tweaks won't be necessary to keep Warriors consistent with other tanks."

I've said it before and I'll say it again warriors take the hit two fold. Stamina and Armor both reduce rage gains. How is that, since Armor does not go into rage calculations? Because the RPDT is taken after armor mitigation. IF you gain 5% more armor mitigation it is going to reduce the physical damage you take by 5% meaning the lower geared person will take more damage per swing gaining more RPDT faster even if he has the same amount of HP.

Quoted from: Themar Wow Beta forum

I didn't do a test, but I accidentally queued for normal instead of heroic a few times and I found the same issue. Seemed like I was hitting devestate a lot more in the normal and trying pool rage and things were smoother in the heroics.

Quoted from Omegal - MVP Wow Beta forum

I think we perform really well provided we undergear it and have rage to keep strong active mitigation up. Heck I do especially well if really getting face kicked in combined with talent to increase ignore pain by missing health and you just start building massive absorbs around yourself.
I've actually noticed as i get MORE gear i take more damage in heroic dungeons because i become more rage starved and start to fail keeping ignore pain up. I even did a test where I ran NORMAL violet hold after heroic and found it MORE difficult to stay alive than in heroic, because i was so ridiculously rage starved from gear. the concern for rage from damage taken is real.

Edit: This is where you might need to take off your armor when your doing lower Tier stuff cuz you take a lot less damage meaning you have to put out a LOT more rage producing attacks to make up for the rage lost from your mitigation (IP excluded of coarse as mitigation in this sense).

[Drkreven]

Well gg Blizzard another build, and all Protection Warriors see is a change to Focused Rage... which is simply a change from Focused Rage dealing damage equal to 165% of our attack power to it now increasing our damage by 50% per use... which means more or less it will be no more beneficial to us then it was before. What it boils down to is... we saw yet again no useful tuning changes at all to us. I think sadly we can at least for the most parts guys... say that we can agree they no longer care what we have to say... if they ever cared at all what we thought in regards to our major issues such as RFDT, and how that impacts us as we gear.

[Deleted]

Well gg Blizzard another build, and all Protection Warriors see is a change to Focused Rage... which is simply a change from Focused Rage dealing damage equal to 165% of our attack power to it now increasing our damage by 50% per use... which means more or less it will be no more beneficial to us then it was before. What it boils down to is... we saw yet again no useful tuning changes at all to us. I think sadly we can at least for the most parts guys... say that we can agree they no longer care what we have to say... if they ever cared at all what we thought in regards to our major issues such as RFDT, and how that impacts us as we gear.

I think the change to FR is a boring change to a boring ability. What I thought could have been an interesting twist to this (since FR stacks) was to make the stacks multiplicative instead of additive.

As the ability works now:
1 FR: +50%
2 FR: +100%
3 FR: +150%

In effect this means that if your Shield Slam damage has a base of 100 that your increases would be like this

1 FR: 150 DMG
2 FR: 200 DMG
3 FR: 250 DMG

If they instead lowered the DMG increase of FR to 45% and made it multiplicative (so we are rewarded for stacking FR) it would be a much more fun ability. It would look something like this (damage of Shield Slam is still 100).

1 FR: 145 DMG (100*1.45)
2 FR: 210 DMG (100*1.45*1.45)
3 FR: 305 DMG (100*1.45*1.45*1.45)

This model would make your average 1 FR stack Shield Slam do less damage, but once you start building up stacks you get more bang for your buck. It would reward clever play, it would make off tanking much more enjoyable since you would be able to consistently gett 3 stacks because you dont have to use AM, thus make your dps higher. Obviously the numbers would have to be tweaked a bit, but I think this model is way cooler, and makes FR not just a fucking boring version of Heroic Strike.

Unrelated I also made a post on the feedback thread quoting Celestalon in a post Aggromat showed me a few pages back. I thought it was interesting that their official philosophy that was shared with us a while back doesn't even come close to showing in their gameplay design of our class.

[Breccia]

I hope Blizzard answers your question. It's well phrased. Upvoted.

For what it's worth, here's what I think the answers are:

"Although Warriors generate less rage as their health and mitigation increases, that loss is more than offset by gains to their survivability from increased attack power, crit, and haste. So gearing up still makes you stronger overall, and you'll still get more rage when you need it most.

"All tanks' active self-healing goes down as their mitigation improves - rage is just the most visible mechanism through which this happens. As a result, tweaks won't be necessary to keep Warriors consistent with other tanks."

I'm sure you think this is an acceptable answer. It still isn't. It still completely misses the point.

There should be no loss to offset in the first place.

RFDT is still a stupid mechanic that was removed a while ago for good reason. It smacks of change for the sake of change, and more importantly, change for the sake of change nobody asked for, wanted, or likes. Removing control of the majority of our only resource is stupid, and their inability to say even a single line even once regarding the decision to add this is highly disrespectful.

And you're still wrong about the self-healing. Whether or not the numbers go down is irrelevant. Healing based on damage done is not in any way similar to future damage prevention based on past damage done. The comparison is somewhere between naive and insulting.