Mythic only dungeons a good idea?

[primalmatter]

If I wanted to "Youtube" a fight or story I would do just that. This is no legit reason to do this, it isn't like these dungeons are super hard or something special. This is blizzard trying to get people into pugs/guild runs more without LFD and guess what.....Its going to fall on its face.

Most will do it once see it rewards the same as the rest and not go back.

So what is the issue then?

[kamuimac]

That's all that matter. Everybody was complaining during BC, but at least they weren't bored and leaving, like in Wod.
.

thats complete myth spread for years - they were leaving in droves there was just constant stream of new people coming into game when it was fresh - even blizzard admited at some point during wolk/cata era that even though there was 10 mln playing game over 100mln tried it and left.

[Usagi Senshi]

I guess we will agree to disagree to me that is how a end game max level experience should look.

Do you also break every 3rd brick block on every two screens, only kill para koopa troopers while they're facing right, and hop backwards through every level in order to actually "complete" a level in Super Mario Bros?

Yes, it is a great idea. It promotes people going out and finding a group of friends to play with instead of logging on for 10 minutes, queuing for a dungeon with randoms, then logging off.

Mythic dungeons are content for everyone, they just require you to think a little bit about it instead of just rolling your face on the keyboard. If you don't like this concept then you should quit world of warcraft.

Mythic 5-mans are not hard and actually do belong on the LFD tool. Blizzard is just too pussy to trust the players with that content or purposely screwing over players to force manual grouping just because they feel like it. Meanwhile in the other MMOs I play, their 4-7man dungeons are much harder than WoWs and are always random queue-able.

That's why I've been playing FFXIV for 3 years now, gradually making it my main game. Their LFR is on par with WoW's normal and their normal and expert 4-mans are harder than WoW's heroic and mythic 5-mans in equal gear.

[mysticx]

If I wanted to "Youtube" a fight or story I would do just that. This is no legit reason to do this, it isn't like these dungeons are super hard or something special. This is blizzard trying to get people into pugs/guild runs more without LFD and guess what.....Its going to fall on its face.

Most will do it once see it rewards the same as the rest and not go back.

Blizz already promised to buff the rewards, so they are seeing trouble brewing... :3

The trick was always that group-forming was a huge pain in the ass, stupid requirements (Itemlevel above what the instance drops, achievement for first run), favouring ranged over melee, people leaving within 2 minutes if the group wasn't complete by then (Good luck with that when looking for tank and/or healer), everybody except the leader being 3 continents away asking for summons (Need 2 people to summon, oops...), in other words an endless list of player-created bullshit that LFD handily removed from the group-making equation, and now Blizz are cramming all that stuff right back into the game again, in a place that as of this writing still has a lot of profession stuff gated behind it, and that's the problem.

Edit: just read on Wowhead that Blizz removed the garrison campaign bits from the dungeons, good news but i still wonder why they would do that if getting into these dungeons was oh-so-easy... :P

[Echo of Soul]

I think it's a good idea. I don't think that every piece of content needs to have multiple difficulties. It's much more interesting if you have easier content and more difficult content.

[Tackhisis]

So unbelievably stupid. It seems the developers had lost it, and I'm done with WoW.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Mythic dungeons are just heroic dungeons that you don't use LFG for.

Stop whining and complaining - if you're not willing to do mythics and call it a content cut, then you simply don't like that content and stay away from it. It's optional, go AFK in your class halls.

The dungeons are mythic only and we have never had dungeons like this before. I really wish they would just add this to lfd and tell players they're aren't gonna budge on the difficulty.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you also break every 3rd brick block on every two screens, only kill para koopa troopers while they're facing right, and hop backwards through every level in order to actually "complete" a level in Super Mario Bros?




Mythic 5-mans are not hard and actually do belong on the LFD tool. Blizzard is just too pussy to trust the players with that content or purposely screwing over players to force manual grouping just because they feel like it. Meanwhile in the other MMOs I play, their 4-7man dungeons are much harder than WoWs and are always random queue-able.

That's why I've been playing FFXIV for 3 years now, gradually making it my main game. Their LFR is on par with WoW's normal and their normal and expert 4-mans are harder than WoW's heroic and mythic 5-mans in equal gear.

Really wish blizzard would learn the words "get better" sometimes.

[Nihilist74]

Horrible idea, I hate having to depend on other people to do content. The whole idea of mythic dungeons was to make your own group and do them. Why should have to be denied content.

[nekobaka]

in other words an endless list of player-created bullshit that LFD handily removed from the group-making equation,

All without removing the being a dbag from the equation which keeps Blizzard from placing content that requires teamwork openly available to random queue.

Personally I would enjoy mythic having a random queue option even if it meant some kind of gating like PG which did work in WoD which personally lead to a far smoother experience than even the laughable MoP heroics. Unfortunately devs are unwilling to take that risk.

Really wish blizzard would learn the words "get better" sometimes.

Mythic is also optional content. Unfortunately there is a segment of the community who does not or is unwilling to understand that and has to ruin it for everyone else.

What is sad is when the LFD feature first came out the devs did tell players if they did not like the random queue experience they could form their own group. Instead we have a system that allows griefers to force themselves upon others and ruin the experience of the majority.

[Joeydivision82]

No, this is a dumb change. You are never going to get all dungeons taken off a queue and with that in mind, it's nonsensical to make 2 of the 10 dungeons Mythic-only, when you can simply make them Mythic as well as Heroic and Normal.

Maybe if Pristine Servers were a thing right now, I'd support the change. Only that way you couldn't piss off the majority of the playerbase which "have lives".

When the player base was 10 million+ that lasted for several years. Yeah, things change, but WoW doesn't need to become a $15/mo. mobile style game you play on your PC that you log into once a day for about an hour and log off. When you take the RPG out of MMORPG there is a problem, and that is having stuff you need to actually work for, not set a time and come back the following day to collect your reward.

The game has already gone down that road quite a bit, but having something like Mythic only stuff is fine, just the way the game slowly catered to the few people who wanted to log in and log off right away before almost becoming that entirely.

Despite what people say, sometimes it's ok to split up the player base as long as there is enough content for both to enjoy. If those people want to log in for 10 minutes a day, an MMO is probably not the game they need to be playing, might I suggest Clash of Clans? or The Simpsons: Tapped Out?

The game doesn't need to go full hardcore mode again where only a small percent see raids and an even smaller percent will see the very endgame raids, but stuff like Mythic only dungeons isn't going to hurt anyone anymore than having everything easily accessible to everyone and making the later content that people work hard to clear become a joke with LFR. There's some middle ground here and it's definitely not "make everything available to everyone" by any means.

[Dominus89]

All these "casuals" that consantly whine about stuff that don't cater to them and then throw the "why should blizzard cater to the 1% elitists???"-card is sad.
Why?

Because I am a so called casual, and I have no problems at all doing mythic dungeons right now. If you don't have any friends that play right now or a guild thats inactive, then just use the group finder. Search for mythic dungeon and you're off.

[munkeyinorbit]

The dungeons are mythic only and we have never had dungeons like this before. I really wish they would just add this to lfd and tell players they're aren't gonna budge on the difficulty.

Cataclysm would like to say hello. People were having a big cry about how easy the WotLK heroics were and the whole community was slathering at the mouth waiting for these hard heroics. They came out and then the community went fucking mental and devoured itself over how impossible the dungeons were and that Blizzard should nerf them. In the same expansion Blizzard even released heroic only dungeons in 4.1. Do you people even remember that shit? Do you even remember the PUGs?

If the content is harder keep it away from LFD. We do not need that shit storm again. It would probably be the death of the game if the Cata butt hurt happened all over again. We dont need a new "I QUIT" thread posted every .17 seconds.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Cataclysm would like to say hello. People were having a big cry about how easy the WotLK heroics were and the whole community was slathering at the mouth waiting for these hard heroics. They came out and then the community went fucking mental and devoured itself over how impossible the dungeons were and that Blizzard should nerf them. In the same expansion Blizzard even released heroic only dungeons in 4.1. Do you people even remember that shit? Do you even remember the PUGs?

If the content is harder keep it away from LFD. We do not need that shit storm again. It would probably be the death of the game if the Cata butt hurt happened all over again. We dont need a new "I QUIT" thread posted every .17 seconds.

I know just wish blizzard would ignore it you aren't required to complete heroic. You have normal mode and looking for raid now.

[Raiju]

Cataclysm would like to say hello. People were having a big cry about how easy the WotLK heroics were and the whole community was slathering at the mouth waiting for these hard heroics. They came out and then the community went fucking mental and devoured itself over how impossible the dungeons were and that Blizzard should nerf them. In the same expansion Blizzard even released heroic only dungeons in 4.1. Do you people even remember that shit? Do you even remember the PUGs?

If the content is harder keep it away from LFD. We do not need that shit storm again. It would probably be the death of the game if the Cata butt hurt happened all over again. We dont need a new "I QUIT" thread posted every .17 seconds.

Cata wasn't actually THAT bad as far as forum posts went. I assume the issue was more based on feedback from other sources as while there were complaints - the forums both here & on the battle.net ones maintained a majority saying they were fine. The forums are naturally more hardcore, though.

It's why the "wow, dungeons are hard!" post GC did was received so negatively on the forums.

[SirCowdog]

Maybe someone can answer something for me. Blizzard said that the reason why they're making it mythic only is because by the time you unlock it by progressing through the story the normal and heroic would be too easy and not give rewards you would use.

So does that imply that the Suramar questing will require higher gear than the rest of the open world? If you're working with gear high enough to challenge mythic difficulty, what does that mean for normal and heroic non-suramar dungeons? Won't they also be invalidated?

Or are we supposed to gear up with normal/heroic dungeons before ever setting foot in suramar?

[Sencha]

For me it's the first one. I don't have time to socialize; when i want to play, all i could until legion was queue for it and at least see every dungeon. I also don't have time to wait or to socialize with jerks wo requires 850 ilvl for a 830 ilvl-dungeon. I also have often work to do, or looking for my people, so the dungeonfinder is quite nice; i hear when the invite is here, i simply can also let the invite go off if i need to look for my people in RL and yes, if that makes me unsocial then i'm happy about it.

Removing these dungeons from Heroic is simply a stupid move to please Snowflakes and that's not something we need nowadays. Heck, we have mythic+ for them, so removing 2 dungeons from the queue is simply a very stupid move.

If they want to add attunements for this dungeons ok, but then setting a barrier is simply stupid.

Why are you playing a MMO if you are unsocial?

[Lucetia]

Why are you playing a MMO if you are unsocial?

Believe it or not a lot of people play a MMO because they like the content and material in it. Playing an MMO does not mean you are required to do activities with other people. It just means that there are a Massive amount of multiplayers in the game and the option is there to play. There is a lot of content for people who want to solo. You can even do group content without being social at all. Being unsocial doesn't mean you don't want to play with anyone period. It just simply means you don't want to go out of your way to socialize with other people in order to do things, but you are find with passively finding things (such as LFG, waiting in a channel for groups, using Dungeon Finder listings and joining them).

[Nysty]

Probably already been said but I'm too lazy to read 18 pages as at time of posting. NOWHERE does it state, including in the link posted in the OP, that there is any intention for these 2 dungeons to be mythic only, it simply says they're being tested on mythic only as they're not likely to show up on lfd normal/heroic. I simply took that as an admission that a lot of players skip a lot of questing and as a result will be ineligible for those dungeons and thus lfd will not place them there. It's far more likely that the top tank, healer and 3 dps in the queue will have at least 1 player who has not done the questing necessary to unlock the dungeons and thus will by default be placed in an alternate dungeon.

It's not cutting of content in any way, shape or form since they explicitly said it's just less likely to show up not that it will never show up. If anything it's bonus content for those who enjoy getting out in the world and playing the game rather than sit in a city and queue their way to 110. It's also a restriction that is likely to get lifted as the expansion goes on since in my experience a lot of people do the quests first time around then just get to max level asap after that and they'll likely adjust for that, quite probably making it so if you've unlocked the dungeons on any character on that account then it's unlocked for all.

The post never implies they're doing it to give the hardcores an extra few dungeons or to punish the filthy casual crowd, it doesn't even hint at anything that could be misinterpreted besides in some wild conspiracy theory tinfoil hat kinda way.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I have mixed feelings. The big reason is I always side with more content and more options to keep people happy and entertained. That's usually the goal of a video game and I realize and accept not everyone is a mythic raider. But being a mythic 5 man I really don't see the harm in it. They have been pretty successful. Pretty much the one gem to come out of WoD out side of raids. The group finder makes it really easy to put groups together in a 5 man environment. Mythic 5 mans also aren't that hard in Legion. I feel they are more tuned for opening expansion content were as in WoD they were tuned for end of expansion which makes a difference a bit as well. They only become harder when you start to plus mode them. It's how they will stay good for a whole expansion if the option is taken but I feel it has a lower ball at the start base level which imo makes sense.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Hey. Whatever happened to Cho'gall in Warlods? It's weird that such a big name went and disappeared after appearing in so many quests.