Assault Weapons are not real

[Themius]

and if we put governors on all cars so they cant ever go over the highest allotted speed limit just think of all the lives that can be saved
why do you want a car that can travel faster then the highest allotted speed limit? more people are killed every year from people speeding then guns by far

One is an accident... the other is a murder issue, why are you comparing them?

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I ask again, what do you postulate as the cause of the supposedly disturbing upward trend of mass shootings that your data doesn't actually support since 2010? The AWB expired a full six years prior to this "increase" that isn't actually an increase, because the FBI data you linked was not for mass shootings.

Inside the report there is mention of shootings (T_T) active shooter situations of them some turn mass shooting or mass murder, there was an upward trend in those as well. It's like you're just like "lalala fuck it it says active shooter" despite the fact that's not solely what was mentioned in the reprot.

[TITAN308]

One is an accident... the other is a murder issue, why are you comparing them?

Actually...

In 2014, 9,967 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes

Which is about on par with gun murders.

Consuming booze and driving is not an accident.

Now if we want to count firearm suicides, I would also point out roughly 20,000 cars a year are used in suicides as well. Which again, is about on part with gun suicides.

But I don't suspect you'll see trendy FB or media updates regarding DUI deaths or car suicides.

People don't give a shit unless it involves guns.

[Bigbamboozal]

Semi automatic rifles are a real thing. Assault weapons are not.

Not sure I agree, before we had 'assault rifles' we had 'battle rifles', the usual distinction between the two was that battle rifles were bigger, and used larger rounds, 7.62 and the like (think end of ww2 models). Assault rifles are smaller, lighter, and use smaller and lighter rounds (think vietnam and on to modern models).
At least that is what we were instructed to understand in the armed forces up here... maybe that's a commonwealth thing? Not sure, but I do know people who are way more qualified than you or I instructed me as such. I'm more inclined to believe them than someone on mmochamp.

[TITAN308]

So what is this?

It shoots 9mm, a pistol cartridge.

[Tijuana]

So what is this?

It shoots 9mm, a pistol cartridge.

Well, it's been painted black and looks super scary. Therefore, it's clearly a machine gun, which are totally legal and we should ban them.

[Spectral]

and if we put governors on all cars so they cant ever go over the highest allotted speed limit just think of all the lives that can be saved
why do you want a car that can travel faster then the highest allotted speed limit? more people are killed every year from people speeding then guns by far

I'd probably be generally in favor of doing this, or at least requiring different licensing for cars that can travel swiftly. Unlike the right to defense, there's no natural right to drive 100 MPH and rarely a good reason to do so.

[Annoying]

So what is this?

It shoots 9mm, a pistol cartridge.

A Scorpion, duh.

[Spectral]

Not sure I agree, before we had 'assault rifles' we had 'battle rifles', the usual distinction between the two was that battle rifles were bigger, and used larger rounds, 7.62 and the like (think end of ww2 models). Assault rifles are smaller, lighter, and use smaller and lighter rounds (think vietnam and on to modern models).
At least that is what we were instructed to understand in the armed forces up here... maybe that's a commonwealth thing? Not sure, but I do know people who are way more qualified than you or I instructed me as such. I'm more inclined to believe them than someone on mmochamp.

I only know this from a history perspective as I'm not a firearms aficionado, but this is my understanding of the general characterization as well, with battle rifles being replaced in standard military equipment by assault rifles.

The problem that we run into is the parlance of "assault rifle" has been stripped of all historical context and is just used as a stand-in for "gun I want to ban, but can't really tell you why".

[TITAN308]

A Scorpion, duh.

Well, I'm curious how the assault rifle crowd would label it.

Yes, I think most of know what it literally is. haha

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Well, it's been painted black and looks super scary. Therefore, it's clearly a machine gun, which are totally legal and we should ban them.

Technically its a polymer mold, no paint. :P

[Tijuana]

Well, I'm curious how the assault rifle crowd would label it.

Yes, I think most of know what it literally is. haha

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Technically its a polymer mold, no paint. :P

That's a pretty big word. It's clearly military-grade as well then.

[unfilteredJW]

Gun nerds arguing semantics for 24 pages.

Worst fandom ever.

[TITAN308]

That's a pretty big word. It's clearly military-grade as well then.

"Military Grade Plastic"

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You know the worst part of all this?

People have no idea that the civilian market produces much high quality firearms and components.

Milspec = Lowest Bidder who can meet the minimum specifications set forth for the government contract

This is why a lot of soldiers try and order and take over their own components when they get deployed. (Magpul PMAGs are a good example)

[Bigbamboozal]

I only know this from a history perspective as I'm not a firearms aficionado, but this is my understanding of the general characterization as well, with battle rifles being replaced in standard military equipment by assault rifles.

The problem that we run into is the parlance of "assault rifle" has been stripped of all historical context and is just used as a stand-in for "gun I want to ban, but can't really tell you why".

I can agree with that. I feel the same can be said about the term "old school" which by historical examples simply means 'made with real drum sounds rather than synthetic ones', yes there is no end of people telling you they are old school who never listened to breakbeat in their life, and certainly aren't expressing it about music production. rofl

[Thetruth1400]

if people say it long enough it will become a real word. that's how language works.

or, easier, if a new law defines them as such, it also becomes a real thing real fast.

There's the rub though. What exactly classifies a weapon as assault? It's fine if it's a real thing, but it has to become a real thing first.

What the government really wants is bans on parts, not guns, and they need to stop labeling the weapon as a whole. A typical pistol holds between 10 - 17 bullets in their magazine. They want a ban on high-capacity magazines, which they classify as anything over 10 per magazine, so that means there are plenty of pistols out there now that are illegal and fall under the term of "Assault weapon" with the current wording, which is "Semi automatic firearm with a high-capacity detachable magazine, pistol grip, flash suppressor, barrel shroud or adjustable stock."
Then we take a look at the other things on that list.
- Pistol grips they want banned because it allows for spraying from the hip. While sure, that may aid in it, if someone was going to do it, they were going to do it anyway, and a grip isn't really going to change the fact that it's extremely inaccurate.
- Flash suppressors only aid in making it so the flash from the gun isn't blinding to the shooter because it disperses the gas. Again, don't really see how this makes a weapon more deadly than one without it.
- Barrel Shroud. These exist so people can hold the gun more comfortably without burning themselves on the barrel. Again, a safety feature, not something deadly.
- Adjustable stock. If you as a 6'6" guy want to go to a shooting range with your 5'0" girlfriend, enjoy bringing two of the same identical gun, because apparently being able to share the one with the same stock is super scary! Apparently a rigid stock of the smallest size is okay, but one that adjusts down to that size from a bigger size is wrong. I'm all for no collapsible stocks because, yes, they are more concealable, but adjustable ones? Give me a break.


So at the end of the day, yeah, if they want to put bans in place, go for it. If they're going to they need a clear reason that actually makes sense though, not just some hack excuse to pass a law that only law abiding citizens are going to be effected by anyway.

[Schattenlied]

- Pistol grips they want banned because it allows for spraying from the hip. While sure, that may aid in it, if someone was going to do it, they were going to do it anyway, and a grip isn't really going to change the fact that it's extremely inaccurate.

Pistol grips are actually less comfortable and less effective to use when firing "from the hip" than a traditional rifle grip, they put your wrist in a really awkward and uncomfortable position... Shows just how little the people who propose these laws know about firearms...

- Flash suppressors only aid in making it so the flash from the gun isn't blinding to the shooter because it disperses the gas. Again, don't really see how this makes a weapon more deadly than one without it.

and it only does so in low light, at daytime the muzzle flash is basically nonexistent anyways.

[Deleted]

We in Europe shouldnt act like they arent easily accessable here as well so basically we arent all that safe either.

They might not be legal here, but everyone can buy a AK74 from the left over pile of weapons from a random Balkan country.
There was a Dutch news show that showed how easy it was to buy one last year by doing so themselves. They easily found suppliers and got one for a couple of hundred euro's and since there are no borders nor border controls, they could drive all the way back here (where they did destroy it and reported it to the authorities).

[Stormdash]

One word. That upper Ruger is tactical.

It's tacticool, configured for operators who always want to operate operationally.

[Vyxn]

everything that makes an assault rifle be labeled by the anti gun crowd that makes it an assault rifle are just cosmitcs that don't have a dam thing to do with the effiency of the weapon to kill


I will give you this example again

this is an assault rifle



this isn't




both the same rifle Mini 14 .223 semi automatic both fire the same round both have the same firing and reloading mechanism bot have the same rate of fire both practically the same size

so what makes the top so called assault riffle more dangerous that it needs to be banned but the bottom one is just a hunting rifle that is ok
if you ban the top riffle all mass shooters would do is switch to the bottom gun and would inflict just as much death

[Astronom]

So how about we just ban all self loading rifles, unless you can present a very good reason why you need to own one.

[Schattenlied]

So how about we just ban all self loading rifles, unless you can present a very good reason why you need to own one.

Or, we can try and solve the real problem, which is people being fucking insane... This country doesn't handle mental health very well, that is the real problem...

The AR-15 has been sold to civilians since 1963, and before 1986 you could even, with not all that much effort, buy an M16, which is a machinegun, an actual assault rifle... Before and after 1963 (until 1986) you could buy any number of other full auto firearms, actual full auto Thompson sub machineguns, full auto M2 Carbine rifles, full auto M14s... These guns aren't new, so what changed? The guns aren't the problem.