Mass Shooting at Florida Gay Bar

[Shinzai]

And somehow that's supposed to be better? I mean, okay, yeah, we don't have laws saying "kill them" in America.

We do have laws saying "fuck 'em. if they admit they're gay, you can fire them for that. 100% fine. You should also be able to bar them from renting somewhere if you find that. BUT WE'RE NOT KILLING THEM, so it's okay right? riiight?". It'd almost be more merciful to kill someone than continuously deny them job, house, and security in general... you just shift the person who kills them to themselves, then say "well if they weren't gay, they'd not commit suicide!".

It's stupidity at its finest

Not sure why anyone would deny gay people a job or a house, given they tend to raise property values and are as good as any other worker at their jobs. Besides, it would be sexual orientation discrimination to stop them from working any where.

I'm not really sure where you're going with this, to be honest.

[Vanyali]

Not sure why anyone would deny gay people a job or a house, given they tend to raise property values and are as good as any other worker at their jobs. Besides, it would be sexual orientation discrimination to stop them from working any where.

I'm not really sure where you're going with this, to be honest.

Those are actual bills and things that our politicians bring up. To say it's a "strange, esoteric form" and ignoring that it's the form the politicians of one of our two major political parties endorses is grossly ignorant of reality.

[Shinzai]

The latter is just your opinion. There is a good chunk of Christians considering homosexuality a "sickness" that needs to be cured, somehow.

Here is a passage from a related wiki page:


You see, how it is just matter of personal view or interpretation of particular cults/churches etc? Now a similar passage from related wiki page regarding Islam

Wiki is leaking Western-centricism, so is this forum. When it is Christianity, it's how we are supposed to forgive people and whatnot and how it's individuals etc., when it's Islam, it's straight "behead the infidel". Muslims and Islamic groups' take on homosexuality varies as well. It depends on individual, but somehow, for an average westerner this requires massive mental power to figure out. Being in Turkey. I've personally observed this variation. There are people, even among the religious groups, that homosexuality should be accepted and people are free to love whoever they want.

The problem is not Abrahamic religions, they are one and same, the problem is social progress of countries.

How many homosexuals have been killed legally under Islamic rule, compared to Christian rule, in the last century?

Also, I keep on citing a site written by followers of the Islamic faith, designed to help spread the Islamic faith, not Wikipedia.

[MENTION=896438]Raybourne[/ MENTION]

Here is a boll I came across. It is way higher than the bullshit 3% figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_i...#Opinion_polls

That poll shows acceptance between 7-10% in Turkey, depending on the age range of those queried.

Also, I might as well pull this from your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_i...expression.svg

[Kuntantee]

How many homosexuals have been killed legally under Islamic rule, compared to Christian rule, in the last century?

What do you mean by "Islamic rule"? Which political entity are you referring to? ISIS? Saudi Arabia? If you are referring to ISIS and alike, then they are not legitimate states and terrorist organization. If it's SA, then your examples are going to be very limited.And what is Christina rule? There hasn't been a Christian rule in West for quite some time. As for "legally being killed", even in countries that punishing homosexuality, the punishment is not death, at least not for all. It's, as far as I know, mostly imprisonment or fine. Judging from the way you form this question and the argument being implied here, I think you are comparing terrorists (Islamic rule) with either a non-existing political entity (Christian rule) or Western states. For both of these cases, this comparison and thus the question is absurd.

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Also, I might as well pull this from your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_i...expression.svg

In the same article;

According to the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) seven countries still retain capital punishment for homosexual behavior: Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Sudan, and northern Nigeria.[67][68] In United Arab Emirates it is a capital offense.[69][11] In Qatar, Algeria, Uzbekistan, and the Maldives, homosexuality is punished with time in prison or a fine. This has led to controversy regarding Qatar, which is due to stage the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Human rights groups have questioned the awarding in 2010 of the right to host the competition, due to the possibility that gay football fans may be jailed. In response, Sepp Blatter, head of FIFA, joked that they would have to "refrain from sexual activity" while in Qatar. He later withdrew the remarks after condemnation from rights groups.[70]

In Egypt, openly gay men have been prosecuted under general public morality laws. (See Cairo 52.) In Saudi Arabia, the maximum punishment for homosexual acts is public execution, which is often carried out.[71] The government will sometimes use lesser punishments—for example, fines, time in prison, and whipping—as alternatives.

Saudi Arabia and the others are extreme examples.

Islam is bigger than Arabs. Turkic nations hardly ever punish homosexuality.

[Vyxn]

What do you mean by "Islamic rule"? Which political entity are you referring to? ISIS? Saudi Arabia? If you are referring to ISIS and alike, then they are not legitimate states and terrorist organization. If it's SA, then your examples are going to be very limited.And what is Christina rule? There hasn't been a Christian rule in West for quite some time. As for "legally being killed", even in countries that punishing homosexuality, the punishment is not death, at least not for all. It's, as far as I know, mostly imprisonment or fine. Judging from the way you form this question and the argument being implied here, I think you are comparing terrorists (Islamic rule) with either a non-existing political entity (Christian rule) or Western states. For both of these cases, this comparison and thus the question is absurd.

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In the same article;


Saudi Arabia and the others are extreme examples.

Here are the 10 countries where homosexuality may be punished by death

Yemen: According to 1994 penal code, married men can be sentenced to death by stoning for homosexual intercourse. Unmarried men face whipping or one year in prison. Women face up to seven years in prison.

Iran: In accordance with sharia law, homosexual intercourse between men can be punished by death, and men can be flogged for lesser acts such as kissing. Women may be flogged.

Iraq: The penal code does not expressly prohibit homosexual acts, but people have been killed by militias and sentenced to death by judges citing sharia law.

Mauritania: Muslim men engaging in homosexual sex can be stoned to death, according to a 1984 law. Women face prison.

Nigeria: Federal law classifies homosexual behavior as a felony punishable by imprisonment, but several states have adopted sharia law and imposed a death penalty for men. A law signed in early January makes it illegal for gay people countrywide to hold a meeting or form clubs.

Qatar: Sharia law in Qatar applies only to Muslims, who can be put to death for extramarital sex, regardless of sexual orientation.

Saudi Arabia: Under the country’s interpretation of sharia law, a married man engaging in sodomy or any non-Muslim who commits sodomy with a Muslim can be stoned to death. All sex outside of marriage is illegal.

Somalia: The penal code stipulates prison, but in some southern regions, Islamic courts have imposed Sharia law and the death penalty.

Sudan: Three-time offenders under the sodomy law can be put to death; first and second convictions result in flogging and imprisonment. Southern parts of the country have adopted more lenient laws.

United Arab Emirates: Lawyers in the country and other experts disagree on whether federal law proscribes the death penalty for consensual homosexual sex or only for rape. In a recent Amnesty International report, the organization said it was not aware of any death sentences for homosexual acts. All sexual acts outside of marriage are banned.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ished-by-death

[Shinzai]

What do you mean by "Islamic rule"? Which political entity are you referring to? ISIS? Saudi Arabia? If you are referring to ISIS and alike, then they are not legitimate states and terrorist organization. If it's SA, then your examples are going to be very limited.And what is Christina rule? There hasn't been a Christian rule in West for quite some time. As for "legally being killed", even in countries that punishing homosexuality, the punishment is not death. It's, as far as I know, exclusively imprisonment or fine. Judging from the way you form this question and the argument being implied here, I think you are comparing terrorists (Islamic rule) with either a non-existing political entity (Christian rule) or Western states. For both of these cases, this comparison and thus the question is absurd.

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In the same article;

Actually, the punishment can and is up to death in a number of countries, as that link from the Wikipedia page you cited shows. When I say "Christian rule", I refer to countries where Christianity, or some variant of those core beliefs is the norm.

On the subject of executions, I'll just re-post this:

Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.

That's under the rule of the Islamic Republic of Iran, onwards.

[Wewlad]

I find it hilarious how people are so desperate to paint Christianity as equal to Islam in terms of persecution of homosexuals, yet we don't have several Chriatian theocracies that legally execute them on a regular basis compared to Islamic nations. Neither do we have so many massacres committed by them elsewhere.

It is also ridiculous, and ironic, how these people will apologize for Islam even if a jihadist murdered their family, yet they will paint Christians as worse than a hybrid of Hitler and Stalin.

[Kuntantee]

I find it hilarious how people are so desperate to paint Christianity as equal to Islam in terms of persecution of homosexuals

Good, it's the first step of acknowledging the truth.

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Judging by the countries punishing homosexuality, this whole gay-hate on a governmental and judicial level remains to be an Arabic phenomenon and not Islamic, considering Turkic people aren't punishing homosexuality in their respective Turkic states. A simple pattern to recognize.

[Hana Song]

Judging by the countries punishing homosexuality, this whole gay-hate on a governmental and judicial level remains to be an Arabic phenomenon and not Islamic, considering Turkic people aren't punishing homosexuality in their respective Turkic states. A simple pattern to recognize.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Indonesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Malaysia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Somalia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Nigeria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Gambia

[Zervek]

What about people who are born with both sets of genitalia? Who does your God say they should be with?

They didn't choose to be born with a disability. Whatever point you are trying to make is moot.

[Shinzai]

Good, it's the first step of acknowledging the truth.

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Judging by the countries punishing homosexuality, this whole gay-hate on a governmental and judicial level remains to be an Arabic phenomenon and not Islamic, considering Turkic people aren't punishing homosexuality in their respective Turkic states. A simple pattern to recognize.

I will say that Turkey is far more leniant on a legal level than any other Islamic influenced state, mostly as a left-over from the Ottoman Empire, who were trying to appeal to European sensibilities. Something that has continued to be a precedent in modern day Turkey.

[Karamaru]

Judging by the countries punishing homosexuality, this whole gay-hate on a governmental and judicial level remains to be an Arabic phenomenon and not Islamic, considering Turkic people aren't punishing homosexuality in their respective Turkic states. A simple pattern to recognize.

I applaud Turkey for accepting LGTB rights even before the west did it that was very progressive for its time in history.

[Kuntantee]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Indonesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Malaysia

Still doesn't change it's mostly Arabic.

[Hana Song]

Still doesn't change it's mostly Arabic.

I linked more countries in that post too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Guinea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Senegal

[Kuntantee]

I will say that Turkey is far more leniant on a legal level than any other Islamic influenced state, mostly as a left-over from the Ottoman Empire, who were trying to appeal to European sensibilities. Something that has continued to be a precedent in modern day Turkey.

I am not sure what kind if illiteracy this is. Ottoman Empire, at no point in history, tried to appeal to European sensibilities save for few exceptions. Ottoman Empire was gay friendly from get-go (mind you, from 1300 onwards). It was finally decriminalized in sometime around 1800 or so but was practiced even earlier, especially in army as far as I know. I doubt Sultan or Jannisaries were punished just because they wanted to fuck a man.

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I linked more countries in that post too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Guinea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Senegal

You don't need to link 1 by 1, here is the map. The Arabic influence is obvious.

[Hana Song]

You don't need to link 1 by 1, here is the map. The Arabic influence is obvious.

You are not linking to any map, it just brings you to the lgbt in islam page on wikipedia
I found it, most people with islam on that is not arabic

[Kuntantee]

You are not linking to any map, it just brings you to the lgbt in islam page on wikipedia, most countries with islam on that is not arabic

It links the map. It's a link to a svg file. If you can't open, check the map in that page.

[Hana Song]

It links the map. It's a link to a svg file. If you can't open, check the map in that page.

I found the map on the page but it does not link to that, most of those people are not arabic

[Kuntantee]

I found the map on the page but it does not link to that, most of those people are not arabic

Most of Mediterranean and Red Sea coasts and central ME is Arabic. Save for Iran and perhaps Egypt. More serious punishment is mostly observed in Arabic nations.

[kail]

This is going to sound harsh, but it needs to be said.
This never would have happened if they followed the same teachings as the majority of Americans do. I.E, the bible. I've expressed this a LOT with these recent issues of women and the LGBT community.

For example, Genesis 2:24 reads: "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." God has created man and woman for a reason-procreation. Our genitals are literally made for each other. Homosexuality is just not normal, and I have no idea why ANYONE would choose to go that route. Obviously they have certain mental issues that a doctor needs to help them with, as homosexuality was not how God designed things to be.

I am not justifying this incident, but what I am saying is true. If these people would have made the right choices and were with a woman-like how it was intended, this never would have happened.

Many straight people have been killed as well. They never would have died if they were simply gay. And what mental issues are you talking about?