Are you satisfied with the current iteration of Ret in the Legion beta?

[Snegovik]

because #fantasy

Retribution Paladins felt too much like support-range fighters, and now they are more focused (read 100% fulltime) on melee damage and damage only.

Didnt blizzard hear Rocky's speech? "it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward" It does not matter if u can hit for 1 mil in a GCD if u die before u can reach ur KT =). Blizzard needs to watch Rocky again.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Feels more like it's a Vengeance spec to avenge Tirion's death (just in case people didn't know).

No it doesn't.

It's awful. Unpolished. Slow - literally.
Painful to play.
Literally can't be compared to WoD Ret .
Afterall, you can't compare inferior to superior.

[OrcsRLame]

Ret is starting to grow on me. Just pick all the talents that do AoE and it suddenly becomes fun.

[wonderlust]

I gave it another try and spent more time with the spec. I'm slowly getting used to it, but it's still much inferior to the WoD version (it did not need to be changed so drastically), and there's a huge caveat: Fires of Justice is necessary to play. If you don't pick that talent, it's incredibly slow and boring. That's pretty bad design, IMO.

[OrcsRLame]

I gave it another try and spent more time with the spec. I'm slowly getting used to it, but it's still much inferior to the WoD version (it did not need to be changed so drastically), and there's a huge caveat: Fires of Justice is necessary to play. If you don't pick that talent, it's incredibly slow and boring. That's pretty bad design, IMO.

Try the AoE build, especially in dungeons. It might surprise you. Conc-Zeal-DH-DP.

[Vhalour]

I've only played my Ret paladin on beta to level 101 so far, but based on that amount of questing, here's my feedback/concern:

When spec'd for pure ST damage, the rotation feels VERY solid, and using a justicar's vengeance on a stunned mob is very satisfying, especially when it crits for 200-300k with the low gear you get on beta. However, there is basically NO cleave or AOE potential here. Compare to other melee spec, e.g. Frost DK, which get basically just as much ST power with the option to dynamically switch into cleave or mass AOE during a fight, and it begs the question: why on earth would you go ret?

When spec'd for pure AOE, even when popping the 35% dmg reduction + reflect ability (it's on a 1 min CD; I forget the name, but it's like the old vanilla Warrior ability), the AOE feels incredible weak and not fun to play. Nothing feels powerful. The spinning hammers + consecration both hit for incredibly low numbers, and zeal AOE atm feels way less powerful than hammer of the righteous historically. Perhaps most importantly, I really don't think the judgment debuff should be required for Divine Storm. Make judgment affect templar's verdict only, and bump up divine storm by quite a bit.. Right now it hits for almost nothing (at least at that low level).

In short: Ret paladin feels great single target, but that's it. Regardless of spec, AOE and even 2-target cleave feels terrible.

Again full disclaimer, this opinion is entirely based on level 100-101 using the beta gear, ~680 ilvl. Just feels a lot worse than most specs I've tried at the same gear level.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Try the AoE build, especially in dungeons. It might surprise you. Conc-Zeal-DH-DP.

what build do I try in PvP?

[Gracin]

Not happy with it at all, so much so this will be the first time my Ret won't be my main since I rolled him in late BC. I'm really disappointed, because WoD Ret was imho about as spot on gameplay wise as it could be. Not saying there wasn't some room for adjustment, especially in the AoE department. But it was miles ahead of anything we had prior and will now be miles ahead of what we're getting. Very disappointing to sit my pally after all this time dealing with shit mechanics and damage, then get an expansion in the sun, only to fall face first into the shit again.

I'm not 100% sure yet what I'll be playing other than Ret, but it'll be either Fury, Havoc, Enhancement, or Outlaw. At the moment it's leaning heavily towards Havoc, but the final decision will be made after the DH's drop during the pre-patch.

[mhdoe]

Wod ret is in my opinion absolute shit but have enjoyed it so far in the beta.

[Snegovik]

what build do I try in PvP?

I was thinking the same, trying to picture using Conc while chasing hunter,drood,mage =)

[OrcsRLame]

what build do I try in PvP?

I don't pvp. If I did I probably wouldn't play paladin tbh.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I was thinking the same, trying to picture using Conc while chasing hunter,drood,mage =)

well, a raid of Retpaladins could theoretically encircle a hunter with Concecrations, he'd be left nowhere to run

I don't pvp. If I did I probably wouldn't play paladin tbh.

why so?
DIdn't you just tell us in two threads how you like Ret, how it grew on you?

[Snegovik]

well, a raid of Retpaladins could theoretically encircle a hunter with Concecrations, he'd be left nowhere to run

U mean before he deters and disengages while giving us middle finger since we cant touch him lol. Did u try prot storm? i think u will like it.

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I don't pvp. If I did I probably wouldn't play paladin tbh.

U should try it, its quit fun since every1 expects you to fail and lose, since you are Ret, and when you win, you can almost feel through ur screen astonished and enraged faces of ur enemies thinking: wtf, did a Ret just pwned us? AGR! Blizzard nerf Rets! too OP!

[OrcsRLame]

well, a raid of Retpaladins could theoretically encircle a hunter with Concecrations, he'd be left nowhere to run

why so?
DIdn't you just tell us in two threads how you like Ret, how it grew on you?

Because ret has been good in pvp like twice ever. I play this game to raid, (and do dungeons I suppose) and all of my posts are written with a pve first mindset. If pvp was the main reason I played the game, I would almost certainly main a rogue, because they've pretty much always been a top pvp class as far as I'm aware.

You have my condolences for how shitty ret is in pvp, but there's no need to get all condescending just because I play a different game mode from you.

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U mean before he deters and disengages while giving us middle finger since we cant touch him lol. Did u try prot storm? i think u will like it.

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U should try it, its quit fun since every1 expects you to fail and lose, since you are Ret, and when you win, you can almost feel through ur screen astonished and enraged faces of ur enemies thinking: wtf, did a Ret just pwned us? AGR! Blizzard nerf Rets! too OP!

I've dabbled in it here and there and I just don't find it fun, regardless of whether I'm winning or losing.

[Brewhan]

Having played ret since BC I have to say I'm not really enjoying legion beta ret. I think the numbers are still too low and that is why it takes forever to kill some mobs. My prot specs kills faster single target even. Prot is way more fun with spinning hammers, huge crits if you get single avenger shield, and overall more fun pulling 3-5 mobs at a time and killing them just as fast. With how intense the mob density is in the zones I've leveled in so far (105 atm) I think leveling as prot will be the best choice and off spec gearing or leveling up ret artifact something like that. I heard ret doesn't feel really good until near maxed out artifact power since ashbringer trait skill can give you immediate 5 holy power on 30sec cd . Still don't like the huge nerf to mobility tho feels so slow

[Morally Grey Storm]

U mean before he deters and disengages while giving us middle finger since we cant touch him lol.

damn those hunters!
Wont get caught into Concecration!
Ruining my fun!

Did u try prot storm? i think u will like it.

Actually, yes.
Specced Prot a week or two ago, 2nd time in what, 4 years(1st time it was somewhere around end of WotLK), and I enjoyed it.
Avenger's Shield is so fething awesome.
Tons of haste make all my abilities cooldown so fast due to Prot +haste bonus.
Blessed Shield-thing-that-which-allows-to-spell-reflect is out of this world aswell.
I am nigh unkillable and snort at melee while being so sticky to casters it's unbeliavable, even despite having no HoF.
Wish I had a sub running atm though, as it's currently expired and I'm to greedy/lazy, having fun in WoWarships with my dear, lovely, sweet, ice-cold queen Kongou~

[Snegovik]

Because ret has been good in pvp like twice ever. I play this game to raid, (and do dungeons I suppose) and all of my posts are written with a pve first mindset. If pvp was the main reason I played the game, I would almost certainly main a rogue, because they've pretty much always been a top pvp class as far as I'm aware.

You have my condolences for how shitty ret is in pvp, but there's no need to get all condescending just because I play a different game mode from you.

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I've dabbled in it here and there and I just don't find it fun, regardless of whether I'm winning or losing.

Fair enough =). At least ull be able to get sexy Inferno mount in Legion, while i wont...since i refuse to pve

[OrcsRLame]

Having played ret since BC I have to say I'm not really enjoying legion beta ret. I think the numbers are still too low and that is why it takes forever to kill some mobs. My prot specs kills faster single target even. Prot is way more fun with spinning hammers, huge crits if you get single avenger shield, and overall more fun pulling 3-5 mobs at a time and killing them just as fast. With how intense the mob density is in the zones I've leveled in so far (105 atm) I think leveling as prot will be the best choice and off spec gearing or leveling up ret artifact something like that. I heard ret doesn't feel really good until near maxed out artifact power since ashbringer trait skill can give you immediate 5 holy power on 30sec cd . Still don't like the huge nerf to mobility tho feels so slow

You can get Ashes to Ashes by 110.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Because ret has been good in pvp like twice ever. I play this game to raid, (and do dungeons I suppose) and all of my posts are written with a pve first mindset.

well then I am sorry not if I sounded somewhat rude, then
HF with what you like

You have my condolences for how shitty ret is in pvp, but there's no need to get all condescending just because I play a different game mode from you.

Oh it was no condescence at all, merely snark

[OrcsRLame]

well then I am sorry not if I sounded somewhat rude, then
HF with what you like


Oh it was no condescence at all, merely snark

No worries. Tone is hard to communicate over text.

Talking about a related subject, I really feel the lack of mobility in pve compared to live. Probably the thing that bothers me the most about the spec atm is the horse is our only mobility increase, and it's not even close to as good as Long Arm of the Law. I can't imagine that's much fun in pvp, where mobility is crucial for staying on targets.