Prune 3.0 should be even bigger imho.

[Gestopft]

From the classes I've tested so far, I think they've done a pretty great job overall with the talents as far as being able to add more active abilities. Some specs have a really simple base rotation, but you can make all of them more complex, and we get at least one ability from our artifacts when Legion hits too. I've had a ton of fun so far finding combinations of talents, trying different active/passive combos, etc.

[l33t]

Also: lol @ "modern MMORPG". FF14 is modern, and it has tons of skills. And, surprise surprise, it grows and is very popular (and is playable on gamepad as well, lol).

RPG, be it MMO or single, needs to have a ton of complexity. Witcher3 has that complexity in its game systems, like talents and elixirs. WoW's talent "system" is miserable. Comparing wow systems to witcher3 is like comparing a paper plane to a real one.

[Deleted]

Lol, and where is your Wildstar? Struggling to survive? What an awesome example you just made. Totally the iconic game to use its features.

That was however exactly the issue with it - it's content was mythic/challenge mode only essentially and all the casuals crashed &burned before quitting it. Now to be clear wildstar ain't that complex but it was heavier on the movement side and we know how many players can't even manage standing out of fire.

[Thrif]

subtle? SUBTLE?

And yet, almost everyone in the thread seems to miss it. -_-

[Saberstrike]

Go all the way, to the old RPG routes. I'm talking auto attacks that hit for 7 on a 200 hp target and have like a 60% chance to miss.

Yeeeaaaah the good old days...

...No.

[stevan021]

the game could be played on console and would appeal to more people

Hi there Satan

[Kolvarg]

But then again, it's also incredible how much fuss people can make about a few buttons more or less. Because that's what it really is. You act as if this was a completely new game that plays radically different. You act as if there used to be this immense toolkit that enabled you to do goodness knows what and now all of a sudden it's all gone.

I'm not saying all of a sudden it's all gone. I'm saying over the course of a decade the "feel" of the game changed a lot, not just because of "a few buttons more or less", but also because of the pruning and general minimization of everything (including changes to talents, glyphs, gear management like gems and enchants, and character/gear stats).

And I'm talking especially about the proposition of "5 active abilities 5 passive abilities" which is undeniably much more than "a few buttons less", and is impossible to have as much depth and room for improvement, mastery and clever/well-timed use of more situational abilities as at least some of the classes and specs had at a point.

[Deleted]

Also: lol @ "modern MMORPG". FF14 is modern, and it has tons of skills. And, surprise surprise, it grows and is very popular (and is playable on gamepad as well, lol).

RPG, be it MMO or single, needs to have a ton of complexity. Witcher3 has that complexity in its game systems, like talents and elixirs. WoW's talent "system" is miserable. Comparing wow systems to witcher3 is like comparing a paper plane to a real one.

FF14 is stagnating, not growing.

[Darchow]

Sooo, Guild Wars 2? You want to play Guild Wars 2.

[Dizzeeyooo]

So it's basically just removing the satisfaction of players who enjoy using their full toolkit so that the remaining players don't have to go through the trouble of ignoring the abilities that aren't as relevant/useful

couldn't agree more

At the moment, the game is cluttered with a ton of redundancy

I don't use this button as part of my raiding dps rotation, therefore it must be a redundant button and should be removed is very strong logic indeed

[ItachiZaku]

Sounds good to me. There aren't too many specs that require more than 5. The big issue would be leveling through 110 levels and not "getting anything", but what you do is the WoD way of enhancing those 10 overall abilities. Every 3ish levels, something gets a little better.

[Pua]

Okay, go play Guild Wars 2 then.

A game with an entirely different combat system?

Sounds legit.

[Kolvarg]

A game with an entirely different combat system?

Sounds legit.

So suggesting to play a game with a different combat system that may match the OP's taste is not legit, but OP suggesting a game changes the way combat/classes works to match his personal taste is legit?

[Heeresman]

Give me some of that magic green stuff your smoking what ho

[l33t]

That was however exactly the issue with it - it's content was mythic/challenge mode only essentially and all the casuals crashed &burned before quitting it. Now to be clear wildstar ain't that complex but it was heavier on the movement side and we know how many players can't even manage standing out of fire.

The real issue with Wildstar happens long before raids and hard dungeons. Its leveling is as fun as watching paint dry, so very, very small number of casuals actually made it through to crash and burn on dungeons and ridiculous attunements to enter raids. Wildstar is a living example of why you don't make game for top 0.5% nolifers.

FF14 is stagnating, not growing.

Gratz for competely avoiding the point, though.

[Deleted]

The real issue with Wildstar happens long before raids and hard dungeons. Its leveling is as fun as watching paint dry, so very, very small number of casuals actually made it through to crash and burn on dungeons and ridiculous attunements to enter raids. Wildstar is a living example of why you don't make game for top 0.5% nolifers.

Leveling has always horrible retention, mmorpgs suck the worst especially in lower levels where you have no abilities and the mobs are just targets. Blizzard stated once they lost 30% of new players already in the start area. Wildstar had pretty much the same questing like wow. Either way i think if the endgame had something casual friendly they would have done much better. They had plenty people reach max lvl.

A game with an entirely different combat system?

Sounds legit.

It's not that different , tab-target, weaponswapping = wow stances (druid shapeshift, old warrior stances)
Only real difference is the universal dodge button which acts like a short cd short duration bubble.

[Deleted]

I have no problem with MMOs being on consoles - but WoW shouldn't be one of them. It was never designed for consoles. If you want a console MMO, you're welcome to play Destiny or FF14 since those games were designed for consoles, which is why they work. Blizzard is making their way into the console market with Diablo and Overwatch, I don't think they'll feel much need to completely gut WoW from the inside out just to make it work there as well.

Wildstar is too difficult for the average player, players these days aren't patient enough for that kind of challenge in an MMO. At least WoW offers content for everyone across the skill spectrum.

Blizzard may prune some abilities, but they're also adding new abilities in as well. Classes have situational abilities that good players will know when to utilise in a raid environment, even if those abilities aren't part of their basic DPS rotation or healing toolkit or whatever.

[Pua]

So suggesting to play a game with a different combat system that may match the OP's taste is not legit, but OP suggesting a game changes the way combat/classes works to match his personal taste is legit?

Erm, no?

Did I say what he was asking for was appropriate? I don't think it is. But simply telling people to play another game is about as meaningless a response as you can choose to make. It's trolling, when you think about it.

It's not that different , tab-target, weaponswapping = wow stances (druid shapeshift, old warrior stances)
Only real difference is the universal dodge button which acts like a short cd short duration bubble.

I recommend you go and play Guild Wars 2. It's totally different.

[Craaazyyy]

if anything they should add abilities back...

[Deleted]

I recommend you go and play Guild Wars 2. It's totally different.

i played it. Outside of dodge as i mentioned it's just lighter on big cd's while wow's cd are gamechanging and had less buttons than wow before legion.