[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

With the change they did to Sphere of Insanity why do most of our Direct Damage not count towards it?

Shadow Word: Death
Shadow Word: Void
Mind Sear/ SWP initial damage
Shadowfiend / Mindbender

Should all count towards Sphere of Insanity or better for a dot class is to have THE DOT DMG duplicate. I just can't understand why A DOT CLASS is getting talents/traits/ trinkets that affect non dot spells. I can play destruction warlock if I wanted to have a dot and do mostly direct damage.
+ Sphere of Insanity needs a buff, Golden trait that is less powerful than most of the "normal traits" is bad.

I'd love for Shadow Crash to become baseline/ share CD and cast time with Mind Blast and have it launched directly towards your target.
Mindbender seriously needs to replace Shadowfiend as baseline.

/
I'm doing World Quests at the moment, and other classes seem to be blazing through them, while I get almost instantly killed if I pull above 2 mobs, with contant PWS and a hell of a lot of kiting.

In my 9 years of Shadow priest I've never had such a bad time just farming mobs.

> If we can auto toggle when we want to go in Voidform, we should be able to cancel it, fits the theme as well. You dwell into insanity, but it doesn't mean that you can't stop going insane, you could.

We should have like 20-30-40 insanity generate out of combat.

Shadow could be the best spec (game-play-wise) with a few minor changes, but dreams are for dreaming not for becoming reality.

[Isentropy]

Shadow Word: Pain Duration. Consider makign Shadow Word: Pain at least 1 second longer. It seems like the 14s change was made for Disc and ended up sort of hurting Shadow. The faster tick period is nice for talents like SI, but not nice in general.

Sigma specifically mentioned right after they changed this in the discipline thread that it was aimed at shadow, as a result of the Void Bolt change to make it refresh our dots rather than extend them. Later they changed Shadow Word: Pain to be 18 seconds for disc again. It was very much an intentional tradeoff that I think is unlikely to change at this point, unfortunately.

[l33t]

To be honest, at this very stage I'd better have longer dot durations without VB autorefresh. It generates a lot more problems as it is now, than it solves, tbh. I would also love a 8sec PWS with 10 sec cd with double the shield capacity and double the speed buff duration. Spammy spam does not feel great.

[BradySafety]

Does anyone know whether insanity resets when pulling a raidboss? Or will we be 'forced' to farm some insanity before the pull.

Outside of combat insanity will start to decay after one minute.

[Kretan]

To be honest, at this very stage I'd better have longer dot durations without VB autorefresh. It generates a lot more problems as it is now, than it solves, tbh. I would also love a 8sec PWS with 10 sec cd with double the shield capacity and double the speed buff duration. Spammy spam does not feel great.

Having dots have no natural refresh mechanic is just going to bring back the problem we had before where it was nukes vs dots in direct competition of one another (spoiler alert, nukes won that competition and we hated it casting dots felt punishing). There really aren't "problems" generated with a void bolt refresh. It's just a cap that's placed on how effective it can become to prevent our multidot from becoming broken OP while also allowing them to be strong in single target at the same time. Sure it's hard to keep up dots on many targets with only voidbolt, but it isn't a problem per say like not having the full refresh was.

Taking away the refresh would allow our dots to be even stronger, but a cap would still exist to prevent dots from getting out of control. Same cap, new flavor.

- - - Updated - - -

Outside of combat insanity will start to decay after one minute.

I feel like they will have to reset insanity on pull.....1 minute is easy to farm insanity right before every pull outside of the dungeon. It also is insanely annoying. Either make it baseline or make it impossible.

[l33t]

By the way, did Blizzard finally made # of AP required to max artifact traits same for everyone?

Having dots have no natural refresh mechanic is just going to bring back the problem we had before where it was nukes vs dots in direct competition of one another (spoiler alert, nukes won that competition and we hated it casting dots felt punishing). There really aren't "problems" generated with a void bolt refresh. It's just a cap that's placed on how effective it can become to prevent our multidot from becoming broken OP while also allowing them to be strong in single target at the same time. Sure it's hard to keep up dots on many targets with only voidbolt, but it isn't a problem per say like not having the full refresh was.

Taking away the refresh would allow our dots to be even stronger, but a cap would still exist to prevent dots from getting out of control. Same cap, new flavor.

So, its not a problem when your fucking VB flies to target too long and dots fell off, so you have to waste precious time of your VF to reapply dots? Or maybe its not a problem when you have to not go into VF because you have to reapply dots because you didn't manage to get enough insanity to get into VF before dots fell off? Or maybe it is not a problem that we can't destroy 1 target while cleaving others and instead are forced to split damage almost evenly between three targets?
Really, at these point I'd just have VF as a dotless CoP phase and be happy about it, instead of having to execute that spamming twitching tab-targeting shitty refresh.

I also become kinda infuriated when people start using the "ohh we can't do that because that would be too OP" pseudo-argument. So what? Every other spec is allowed to become OP sometimes, while when the smallest chance of Shadow becoming OP appears, it is being fixed instantly, no matter the cost. Why? Shadow weren't OP for aeons, its only fair they finally receive their moment of glory.

[Kretan]

By the way, did Blizzard actually made # of AP required to max artifact traits same for everyone?

I'd like to hope they did, but I'm not sure if they did or not tbh.

[Kyrik]

Most of this feels like it comes from the cooldown reduction on MB. Without the cooldown reduction, the cooldowns would be proportionally 1:2. Personally, I would prefer MB to go back to instant cast instead of the cooldown reduction, but that would kill Insanity generation. Many of the insanity nerfs (particularly the recent decay increase) would have to reverted to balance that back. Also, MB needs a recharge system. SI is bugged, and that seems to be the central issue. Sometimes it is coded as a cooldown, and others it is coded as a recharge, effectively.

Agreed, the problem is having 2 spells with such a long cast time. Either of them could be altered to try and smooth it out. Longer Mind Blast CD during Void Form would prevent Shadowy Insight's value from being reduced during VF too. More time spent channelling flay would surely help with the excessive speed too, since a full MF (or Void Flay) channel could be considered somewhat of a rest.

[l33t]

I'd like to hope they did, but I'm not sure if they did or not tbh.

According to http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calculator they did.

[Kretan]

So, its not a problem when your fucking VB flies to target too long and dots fell off, so you have to waste precious time of your VF to reapply dots? Or maybe its not a problem when you have to not go into VF because you have to reapply dots because you didn't manage to get enough insanity to get into VF before dots fell off? Or maybe it is not a problem that we can't destroy 1 target while cleaving others and instead are forced to split damage almost evenly between three targets?
Really, at these point I'd just have VF as a dotless CoP phase and be happy about it, instead of having to execute that spamming twitching tab-targeting shitty refresh.

I also become kinda infuriated when people start using the "ohh we can't do that because that would be too OP" pseudo-argument. So what? Every other spec is allowed to become OP sometimes, while when the smallest chance of Shadow becoming OP appears, it is being fixed instantly, no matter the cost. Why? Shadow weren't OP for aeons, its only fair they finally receive their moment of glory.

Whether or not the void bolt application is on cast or when the void bolt hits the target is irrelevant to the discussion because either way you will have a cap on the number of targets you can reliably dot before having to manually reapply. Sure, I would prefer on cast to make it easier (as probably everyone would), but it doesn't change the fact that a cap exists in both cases. An annoying or frustrating feature does not justify a change to a state with real problems; do not cut off your nose to spite your face. Void bolt refresh allows us to multidot with the current structure of our spec, and without it our ability to scale in cleave or multidot is neutered.

Being OP is not a pseudo-argument when the playability of WoW as a game is based on it. Game designers need to strive for game balance in every case that they can. Just because some specs become OP does not justify the want to be OP yourself. Knowingly allowing specs to be OP is the fastest way to turn any game in to a joke unless the very base of the game is to be OP (Diablo games).

Balancing this many specs is so damn difficult because not only are there different fight types and mechanics, you also have players wanting specs to be unique. On top of that, player power increases greatly in a tier, and each spec is going to scale differently (case in point fire mage vs frost dk). In all of that jumbled mess, there are bound to be specs that become OP. Expecting perfect balance across the entire power band of an expansion is just not realistic. It's better to accept the fact that specs will fall through the cracks and become unbalanced than say silly things like "we should get a chance to be OP too".

[l33t]

It's better to accept the fact that specs will fall through the cracks and become unbalanced than say silly things like "we should get a chance to be OP too".

"Its better to accept your forever balanced state in a world of OP specs"?

[Kretan]

"Its better to accept your forever balanced state in a world of OP specs"?

The number of OP specs is very very small. A "world of OP specs" is an exaggeration.

[Smog]

The number of OP specs is very very small. A "world of OP specs" is an exaggeration.

But boy in a world where one spec or another is always running rampant and yet it's never us, it sure feels that way. :/

...

Did you get to do any testing last night, Isentropy? I watched some streams and vids but never once saw a shadow priest get high enough on the meters to be visible (despite one being in the two different raid groups I watched).

[Kretan]

But boy in a world where one spec or another is always running rampant and yet it's never us, it sure feels that way. :/

Haha true. I know the feeling. Back in ToT I was like ok I wanna try fire mage for one tier. I swear to god the next day combustion got neutered. FFFFUUUUUUUUUUU

Let me tell you the salt was real.

[Deleted]

I've uploaded a little Snippet for my guild to see of yesterdays Raid Test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mW7qLeBQ9k

It's blocked in Germany due to music (!!), but the rest of you can enjoy it proxy-free. It doesn't paint a clear picture unfortunately, as we wiped about a minute and 15 into the fight (that's as good as it got).

[Tanned]

According to http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calculator they did.

They balanced everyone to need 34 traits to max the artifact abilities and 54 traits to max over all. That said, we need more traits to unlock our golden dragon traits than other classes do.

[Doodledoo]

They balanced everyone to need 34 traits to max the artifact abilities and 54 traits to max over all. That said, we need more traits to unlock our golden dragon traits than other classes do.

Has anyone actually asked why or made comment of it with a dev answer?

[Nyrri]

I've uploaded a little Snippet for my guild to see of yesterdays Raid Test.

It's blocked in Germany due to music (!!), but the rest of you can enjoy it proxy-free. It doesn't paint a clear picture unfortunately, as we wiped about a minute and 15 into the fight (that's as good as it got).

What is that addon you're using for the insanity bar?

[Deleted]

I've uploaded a little Snippet for my guild to see of yesterdays Raid Test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mW7qLeBQ9k

It's blocked in Germany due to music (!!), but the rest of you can enjoy it proxy-free. It doesn't paint a clear picture unfortunately, as we wiped about a minute and 15 into the fight (that's as good as it got).

Why are you multidotting them xD? It's not a council fight, they heal to full hp once one of the spirits dies (aka all cleave/multidotting is just useless padding). Mind Sear over Mind Flay is fine for insanity but dotting them all and wasting voidbolts to refresh those dots is pointless.

Testing with full artifact trait and 898 ilvl felt much better and spec actually performed really decently on all 3 fights, floating around 7-5 spots (with 2 fire mages/unholy dk/dh/ench occupying top, but all those specs are overtuned in this build). That's a really okay spot since we will gain more and more dmg the longer the fights last compared to CD oriented classes that lose dmg each CD rotation compared to opener. Playstyle with high haste seems fine, just have death CD scaling with haste again to make execute phase more fluid and we are in fine spot.

What is that addon you're using for the insanity bar?

It's Twintop's WA, here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ion-Weak-Auras

[Deleted]

They told me not to multi-dot the try after xD I WANTED TO SEE THE DEEPS MAN
Besides, I'd rather use that hour or so of raid testing to test my overall abilities in dealing damage. There was no way we would've downed that boss.

I agree, testing with the full artifact felt good! I can definitely see the class phantasy being fulfilled once we have more artifact traits running.