Wow Legion : PvP Everyone is Everyone

[rda]

But they're not higher at all. Unless you're talking about in the scenario where someone is full titanforged (lol) against a brand new 110, which would still be a lower gap than currently exists between a Conquest-geared PvPer and an ungeared PvPer?

Like where are you getting your numbers from because that's not how math works to my knowledge. 50% > 10%.

Read. The. Thread.

Or read the text you are replying to.

We lost the ilvl cap. Go do the math. You are in for a surprise.

---
OK, I will make it very simple. Here's your phrase -- "... would still be a lower gap than currently exists between a Conquest-geared PvPer and an ungeared PvPer?" What is this gap now? Give me a percentage.

[Deleted]

have you tried to Play without honor talents AGAINST someone with max talents ? There is a noticeable difference in power. Same goes for a fresh 110 that still miss many artifact traits, against one who has em all... Yet a big difference ! Traits and buffed abilitys !
If you have the same item level the pvp system only equalize your primary and secondary stats. So if you play your main and unlock all honor talents and all your artifact traits you WILL be much more powerful than a new 110.

[rda]

...yeah...no.

Another guy who never counted anything.

[Letdown]

PS:



What?? You haven't been PVPing lately. Like, in the last few years.

I have been PvPing and spending 6 hours struggling in Ashran to make a few hundred conquest points isn't fun. At all. The 20+ hours it took me to grind out even half conquest gear on ONE toon wasn't fun at all, what-so-ever, because I'd still go get shit stomped by someone fully conquest geared.

That was the case in MoP too. I didn't play during Cata, I did play a lil' bit during Wrath and it wasn't as bad (from what I remember at least).

I've HATED PvP in Draenor because it's so miserable getting to the point I can actually play the game. Having a 20+ hour gate on being able to do content at all isn't really a good time.

Furthermore, you're citing other people giving bad information as "read the thread." I have read the thread, you're just quoting other people giving bad information and arbitrarily deciding it's accurate.

The most extreme example you can give is if someone is in full titanforged BiS which is the effective Ilvl cap. That's only going to be a 5% stat increase over someone without a single piece of upgraded gear but would otherwise be BiS -- that's plenty reasonable.

[Hexxidecimal]

Another guy who never counted anything.

sure buddy.

[rda]

I have been PvPing and spending 6 hours struggling in Ashran to make a few hundred conquest points isn't fun. At all. The 20+ hours it took me to grind out even half conquest gear on ONE toon wasn't fun at all, what-so-ever, because I'd still go get shit stomped by someone fully conquest geared.

That was the case in MoP too. I didn't play during Cata, I did play a lil' bit during Wrath and it wasn't as bad (from what I remember at least).

I've HATED PvP in Draenor because it's so miserable getting to the point I can actually play the game. Having a 20+ hour gate on being able to do content at all isn't really a good time.

Furthermore, you're citing other people giving bad information as "read the thread." I have read the thread, you're just quoting other people giving bad information and arbitrarily deciding it's accurate.

The most extreme example you can give is if someone is in full titanforged BiS which is the effective Ilvl cap. That's only going to be a 5% stat increase over someone without a single piece of upgraded gear but would otherwise be BiS -- that's plenty reasonable.

Look, it is clear to me that you plain don't know how it is now (and I see why from the above quote, too). It's fine, no biggie, but it really is the case and that's why you think it gets better while it really is getting worse.

I asked you a question in a previous post, we cross-posted. Please answer it.

Here's your phrase -- "... would still be a lower gap than currently exists between a Conquest-geared PvPer and an ungeared PvPer?" What is this gap now? Give me a percentage.

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sure buddy.

If you have something to say, go ahead and say it, the above is just noise.

[Hexxidecimal]

Look, it is clear to me that you plain don't know how it is now. It's fine, no biggie, but it really is the case and that's why you think it gets better while it really is getting worse.

I asked you a question in a previous post, we cross-posted. Please answer it.

Here's your phrase -- "... would still be a lower gap than currently exists between a Conquest-geared PvPer and an ungeared PvPer?" What is this gap now? Give me a percentage.

- - - Updated - - -



If you have something to say, go ahead and say it, the above is just noise.

Honestly, noise is all it deserves. Anyhow you screwed up the response. It's "I am not your buddy Pal". The moment is past so don't bother.

[rda]

Honestly, noise is all it deserves.

Here's what you replied to:

The gear differences are higher in Legion (yeah, yeah, ilvl differences are scaled down, but there is no ilvl cap, so do the math and find out that the differences are - surprise - higher, not lower) and the gear gap doesn't reduce with time (for 99% of the players).

What, specifically, you think is false and why. Go ahead.

[Letdown]

Look, it is clear to me that you plain don't know how it is now (and I see why from the above quote, too). It's fine, no biggie, but it really is the case and that's why you think it gets better while it really is getting worse.

I asked you a question in a previous post, we cross-posted. Please answer it.

Here's your phrase -- "... would still be a lower gap than currently exists between a Conquest-geared PvPer and an ungeared PvPer?" What is this gap now? Give me a percentage.

- - - Updated - - -



If you have something to say, go ahead and say it, the above is just noise.

Not gonna lie, too tired and lazy to go math it, but isn't it something absurd like a 60% stat gap between someone in, let's say, 660 greens and someone in full conquest? I mean we're talking 80 item levels, and while I know the greens get "boosted" up, it's to a joke level.

I can tell you from trying to do arenas on a fresh 100 it's the difference between having 250k HP and almost 600k HP. Could probably work backwards from there.

The argumentation that things are going to be "worse" is taking a near statistical impossible, worst-case-scenario and presenting it as a norm.

Someone with good enough to RNG to get full titanforged is also probably going to have good enough RNG to crit me 26 times in a row.

Oh, and as far as the false premises (I know it wasn't directed towards me, so):

-99% of the player base does not have full conquest or anything near it
-There is an effective ilvl cap in that Mythic raid titanforged will be the highest obtainable ilvl. That is a cap.
-There's nothing to indicate the gear gap wouldn't reduce with time

[rda]

Not gonna lie, too tired and lazy to go math it, but isn't it something absurd like a 60% stat gap between someone in, let's say, 660 greens and someone in full conquest? I mean we're talking 80 item levels, and while I know the greens get "boosted" up, it's to a joke level.

I can tell you from trying to do arenas on a fresh 100 it's the difference between having 250k HP and almost 600k HP. Could probably work backwards from there.

Good.

It's nothing like that, it's about 11% due to ilvl cap.

You didn't do arenas or you weren't paying attention. I am 99% sure you wrote "I can tell you from trying to do arenas on a fresh" bla bla bla assuming that it'd be the same as in Ashran, but this is not the case.

[Letdown]

I can send you a screenshot when I get home from work on my mage. I'll put money that I don't have over 300k HP in an arena. Can't promise I'll be able to find someone in full conquest to show their 550k+ HP.

It's no where near 11%, but that's still, guess what, MORE THAN 5%.

I did do arenas for about the 5 minutes it took me to give up on trying to just lose-grind conquest out that way. I eventually always suck it up and go back to trying to find a decent Assram group which seems to be non-existent on my server.

Or do you want me to pull up any one of a dozen videos of someone getting 2 shot in PvP on live right now by a full conquest marksmanship hunter to show that 11% stat difference?

[rda]

Oh, and as far as the false premises (I know it wasn't directed towards me, so):

-99% of the player base does not have full conquest or anything near it
-There is an effective ilvl cap in that Mythic raid titanforged will be the highest obtainable ilvl. That is a cap.
-There's nothing to indicate the gear gap wouldn't reduce with time

Without conquest, the gap is ~10%, as you get conquest it reduces. That's in WoD / MoP.

In Legion, the gap won't shrink because there's no conquest, no natural source of improving your gear. You can improve your gear by doing more and higher-difficulty raids, or you can go and try being a glad.

[Hexxidecimal]

Here's what you replied to:

The gear differences are higher in Legion (yeah, yeah, ilvl differences are scaled down, but there is no ilvl cap, so do the math and find out that the differences are - surprise - higher, not lower) and the gear gap doesn't reduce with time (for 99% of the players).

What, specifically, you think is false and why. Go ahead.

Yeah maybe first you should explain the ridiculousness that there is not ilvl cap yeah? Mythic + dungeon +titan forged gear. You can't get better. That is an effective cap.

Also lets take the number they have thrown out so far. 100 ilvls is roughly 10% right? How many ilvls does one actually need to be ridiculously overpowered in comparison to someone else at that ratio.

The only way to effectively break the mythic+ cap is to roll titan forged and it's not like that one item is going to roll 500 ilvls above everything else.

Also how many people do you think are going to be running around in all titan forged mythic+ gear?

[rda]

I can send you a screenshot when I get home from work on my mage. I'll put money that I don't have over 300k HP in an arena. Can't promise I'll be able to find someone in full conquest to show their 550k+ HP.

It's no where near 11%, but that's still, guess what, MORE THAN 5%.

I did do arenas for about the 5 minutes it took me to give up on trying to just lose-grind conquest out that way. I eventually always suck it up and go back to trying to find a decent Assram group which seems to be non-existent on my server.

Or do you want me to pull up any one of a dozen videos of someone getting 2 shot in PvP on live right now by a full conquest marksmanship hunter to show that 11% stat difference?

You don't have to tell me that 11% difference is important, I know it is. (Tell that to Blizzard and all those idiots who look at "just 10%" and theorize that it isn't important instead.) I am telling you that it's going to be worse in Legion, where you will have about 7-8% from gear *that won't reduce with time* plus PVP talents / artifact power levels.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah maybe first you should explain the ridiculousness that there is not ilvl cap yeah? Mythic + dungeon +titan forged gear. You can't get better. That is an effective cap.

Also lets take the number they have thrown out so far. 100 ilvls is roughly 10% right? How many ilvls does one actually need to be ridiculously overpowered in comparison to someone else at that ratio.

The only way to effectively break the mythic+ cap is to roll titan forged and it's not like that one item is going to roll 500 ilvls above everything else.

Also how many people do you think are going to be running around in all titan forged mythic+ gear?

"Can't get better" than mythic / titanforged is a cap, yes.

It so happens that the ilvl cap that got removed computes to about the same numbers in BGs / arenas. Go figure.

And Legion has artifacts and PVP talents, plus the gear gap doesn't shrink like it used to. This makes Legion gap worse.

[Hexxidecimal]

Without conquest, the gap is ~10%, as you get conquest it reduces. That's in WoD / MoP.

In Legion, the gap won't shrink because there's no conquest, no natural source of improving your gear. You can improve your gear by doing more and higher-difficulty raids, or you can go and try being a glad.

Ahhh so you're actual argument is that without PvP gear only doing PvP means you'll fall behind. Am I seeing this correctly.

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You don't have to tell me that 11% difference is important, I know it is. (Tell that to Blizzard and all those idiots who look at "just 10%" and theorize that it isn't important instead.) I am telling you that it's going to be worse in Legion, where you will have about 7-8% from gear *that won't reduce with time* plus PVP talents / artifact power levels.

- - - Updated - - -



"Can't get better" than mythic / titanforged is a cap, yes.

It so happens that the ilvl cap that got removed computes to about the same numbers in BGs / arenas. Go figure.

And Legion has artifacts and PVP talents, which add more gaps of their own.

Where are these numbers exactly?

[ro9ue]

I'm more likely to PVP in Legion because I don't have to climb a ridiculous gear wall. I'm actually sort of upset they still kept in that 10 ilevels = 1% stat increase. They should've committed completely to the no power difference.

[Cannibalus]

Hello, i'm the only one that feels that the PVP feeling from legion will be empty?
Since i can work very hard to get a good gear for my character, play hours for days and my friend who just get until level 110 will have almost the same power as me?

How empty has become the part of being a bit different in the game?
- Your items dont matter.
- Your Talents dont matter (since i can change then anytime i want how much i want for free).
- Your Specialization dont matter (since i can change it also anytime).

So whats matter in PVP? Get PVP talents to reset?
No more wow feeling like: "look this is my strong rogue", now is jsut "look this is my 'just get level 110 rogue' ".
I'm not talking about grinding gears, but i believe iLVL scaling could work better. Blizzard is just putting everyone in the same bag and throwing in the river.
Imagine you raiding with the same stats just 0.1% calculated by ur iLVL? Would be cool?

Good times when you had to plan your to make a build, calculate the best choices, work hard to be a champion!
We live in the years of no effort, everything on your hands.
I believe they are driving WoW into the same role as Diablo went( and its not a good place for a game, diablo mechanics is terrible nowdays)...

Don't worry, they are lying... you will be more powerful with better gear, way more powerful than the numbers listed by them in interviews. It's what they do every expansion since cata, they promise equality bla bla to lure in the social/baddie crowd, that btw comprises the majority of the wow population, let them play and figure out how up their ass a skilled players cock is somewhat later on when they get 1-shot in arena.

[Deleted]

So you're mad that pvp is less gear reliant and more skill reliant? Am I reading that correctly

Also less brain reliant.

After being in the alpha/beta for months now I can honestly say that PVP is literally spamming damage with the odd instant stun/silence etc on a 30-60 sec cd. The ability to outplay people has pretty much been removed completely and all that's left is a damage/healing fest.

[Ulmita]

Hello, i'm the only one that feels that the PVP feeling from legion will be empty?
Since i can work very hard to get a good gear for my character, play hours for days and my friend who just get until level 110 will have almost the same power as me?

How empty has become the part of being a bit different in the game?
- Your items dont matter.
- Your Talents dont matter (since i can change then anytime i want how much i want for free).
- Your Specialization dont matter (since i can change it also anytime).

So whats matter in PVP? Get PVP talents to reset?
No more wow feeling like: "look this is my strong rogue", now is jsut "look this is my 'just get level 110 rogue' ".
I'm not talking about grinding gears, but i believe iLVL scaling could work better. Blizzard is just putting everyone in the same bag and throwing in the river.
Imagine you raiding with the same stats just 0.1% calculated by ur iLVL? Would be cool?

Good times when you had to plan your to make a build, calculate the best choices, work hard to be a champion!
We live in the years of no effort, everything on your hands.
I believe they are driving WoW into the same role as Diablo went( and its not a good place for a game, diablo mechanics is terrible nowdays)...

Its an EXTREMELY good change. Gear shouldn't matter in PvP, skill should.
Just like in best pvp games like lol, dotta, cod etc.

[Cannibalus]

I'm more likely to PVP in Legion because I don't have to climb a ridiculous gear wall. I'm actually sort of upset they still kept in that 10 ilevels = 1% stat increase. They should've committed completely to the no power difference.

Understand something, a skilled PvP-er's life is comprised of doing arena/RBG and in-between the gaps, when his/her buddies aren't on, he/she will kill people in outdoor content or just in random bgs, where no matter what, you, the casual, will get destroyed. Getting better gear helps them kill you faster, don't even think that you will kill him/her on a 1on1.