Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Milocow]

bosses could almost one-shot us


I thought blizz was moving away from this model

[Tehr]

By stacking haste (arnd 4500) I was able to get to 24 stacks on the raiders dummy in stormshield without external help.

Was using heartbreaker, rapid decomp, ossuary, red thirst, foul bulwark, and blood mirror.

Do you have logs or a video? I hate to sound skeptical but the dummy would hit for well over 250k at that point, and i don't see how its possible to survive past 18 stacks let alone up to 24.

[Deleted]

bosses could almost one-shot us


I thought blizz was moving away from this model

They were almost one-shotting without Boneshield up.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...95181&fight=42

[Marx]

No vid or logs but I took a screenshot when I died: http: //imgur.com/p37cUVF

It was hitting for around 300k at that point.

[Deleted]

No vid or logs but I took a screenshot when I died: http: //imgur.com/p37cUVF

It was hitting for around 300k at that point.

So it seems we're back to square one ie. save or get 1-shotted design which they moved away from in WOD (and actually managed to do it!).

[Deleted]

So it seems we're back to square one ie. save or get 1-shotted design which they moved away from in WOD (and actually managed to do it!).

It's a "Keep-Boneshield-Up-Or-Die"-design. Just something Blood DK's will have to pay a lot of attention to.

[Tehr]

It's a "Keep-Boneshield-Up-Or-Die"-design. Just something Blood DK's will have to pay a lot of attention to.

You guys are misunderstanding, I think. He's talking about Raiding dummies, not actual bosses. They gain stacking damage buffs over time.

No vid or logs but I took a screenshot when I died: http: //imgur.com/p37cUVF

It was hitting for around 300k at that point.

Can you repeat your 24 stack but with logs? I'd like to see how you did it.

Also, why do you have Mark of Blood on your bar if you were using Red Thirst? I'm going to be honest, I'm still really skeptical. Only ring and VB are on CD, and they haven't been used for 45 seconds. Plus, you've got Dark Sim, Strangulate, Bone Shield, and Horn of Winter on your bar, which've been removed or put into honor talents.

You can easily fake these things by just running out of range and healing off the DPS dummies nearby before running back in to take the Uber Strike and stack the buff.

Here I am with 44 stacks: http://puu.sh/pAKCK/1f55baeed0.jpg
Here's the video of me cheesing it: https://www.twitch.tv/tehrible/v/73691962

[cujoe]

You guys are misunderstanding, I think. He's talking about Raiding dummies, not actual bosses. They gain stacking damage buffs over time.



Can you repeat your 24 stack but with logs? I'd like to see how you did it.

Also, why do you have Mark of Blood on your bar if you were using Red Thirst? I'm going to be honest, I'm still really skeptical. Only ring and VB are on CD, and they haven't been used for 45 seconds. Plus, you've got Dark Sim, Strangulate, Bone Shield, and Horn of Winter on your bar, which've been removed or put into honor talents.

You can easily fake these things by just running out of range and healing off the DPS dummies nearby before running back in to take the Uber Strike and stack the buff.

Here I am with 44 stacks: http://puu.sh/pAKCK/1f55baeed0.jpg
Here's the video of me cheesing it: https://www.twitch.tv/tehrible/v/73691962

When I transferred my DK to Beta I also still had Dark Sim in my bars, it was just greyed out. Same when changing talents. Dark Sim and Horn of Winter are technically still in the game.

[zortris]

41 Stacks - 3071 haste no flask food or rune - 2 times leg ring and orc racial, no healpot etc - on ptr lvl 100 and ofc the garni dummy

[Deleted]

Dark Sim is a pvp skill, so it is in the game yes. Just doesn't work outside of PvP (Assuming you have it talented)

When it comes to tanking.... Most tanks need to have their stuff going, else bad stuff happens. Warriors need Ignore Pain up, else you're paper. With IP rolling, you're a beast.

[Spryte]

What are your guys thoughts on lvl 90 talent. My gut tells me a good and proactive tank would take Rune Tap, but the lazy side of me is thinking passive, 20% - 14% extra health from Foul Bulwark would be nice :P . Also, does Rune Tap still count as AM for boss checks and such?

[Deleted]

What are your guys thoughts on lvl 90 talent. My gut tells me a good and proactive tank would take Rune Tap, but the lazy side of me is thinking passive, 20% - 14% extra health from Foul Bulwark would be nice :P . Also, does Rune Tap still count as AM for boss checks and such?

The guy inside me that have experienced the hell that is keeping up Boneshield tells me, you'll be busy enough with your runes than to spend them on Runetap

[Saiyendra]

What are your guys thoughts on lvl 90 talent. My gut tells me a good and proactive tank would take Rune Tap, but the lazy side of me is thinking passive, 20% - 14% extra health from Foul Bulwark would be nice :P . Also, does Rune Tap still count as AM for boss checks and such?

Rune Tap is utterly awful. Never use that.

[Philondra]

If we're going to have to spend so many runes just to keep Bone Shield up, then I question the effectiveness of Foul Bulwark and Ossuary (and of course Heartbreaker.) If you're constantly sitting at ~3-5 Bone Shield charges, then Will of the Necropolis really pulls ahead.

Maybe haste really will be our best stat.

Edit: Looking a bit at Kanj's logs again, it looks like he was able to maintain 5+ bone shield charges about 70% of the time on Krosus and a little under 50% of the time on Tel'arn. I'm sure these numbers will improve once we all get used to the spec, but with Will of the Necropolis offering ~9% effective HP (and being more useful during times of danger), it seems like a very viable alternative to Foul Bulwark.

[Marx]

Can you repeat your 24 stack but with logs? I'd like to see how you did it.

Also, why do you have Mark of Blood on your bar if you were using Red Thirst? I'm going to be honest, I'm still really skeptical. Only ring and VB are on CD, and they haven't been used for 45 seconds. Plus, you've got Dark Sim, Strangulate, Bone Shield, and Horn of Winter on your bar, which've been removed or put into honor talents.

You can easily fake these things by just running out of range and healing off the DPS dummies nearby before running back in to take the Uber Strike and stack the buff.

I will see if I can log it next time.

Talents on bar are either legacy from character copy or from testing the new talents.

Red thirst reduces CD on vamp so it would not have been 45 sec. One of the most effective CDs I found comes from rapid decomp and pooling RP for DS, and not just spamming DS but waiting till you take more dmg for a larger DS (I actually found it somewhat easier when past 15ish stacks because of the increased dmg). I also kept bone shield stacks high (7-10).

If I was cheesing the stacks I doubt my healing would be over 100k?

[Milocow]

Heartstrike AoE nerf from every near target to nearest 3 targets

[Philondra]

That nerf looks more worse on paper than it is in practice. It's "up to three additional," which means five total. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where we'll be tanking six targets and not need to spend most of our runes on Marrowrend, and other than speed running heroics or pulling all the trash at once when clearing an old raid, I can't think of one.

Besides, Blood Boil still hits everything, has easier targeting, and does more damage anyway, so it's not like we'll be hurting on AOE threat.

[Deleted]

It's a "Keep-Boneshield-Up-Or-Die"-design. Just something Blood DK's will have to pay a lot of attention to.

So "meh". Don't like such simplistic and crappy design. Tanking has been such a bore in WOD.

[Tehr]

I will see if I can log it next time.

Talents on bar are either legacy from character copy or from testing the new talents.

Red thirst reduces CD on vamp so it would not have been 45 sec. One of the most effective CDs I found comes from rapid decomp and pooling RP for DS, and not just spamming DS but waiting till you take more dmg for a larger DS (I actually found it somewhat easier when past 15ish stacks because of the increased dmg). I also kept bone shield stacks high (7-10).

If I was cheesing the stacks I doubt my healing would be over 100k?

Every melee attack hits for 300k, and your death strike can only heal for up to 50% damage taken, so you'd need to use two death strikes per melee attack taken, which is 60 RP with 4set and Ossuary. You simply don't have the GCDs to generate that much RP if you're being attacked constantly by the raid dummy.

Your healing can be 100k just from healing off the other dummies. Pool RP to 60+, take an AA and Uber Strike (~450k), death strike twice on dummies, and then repeat. This is particularly effective because there are three dummies to cleave heart strike on to generate bonus RP from heartbreaker.

I would love for you to prove me wrong so that I can learn from you, but 24 stacks is so much more than I consider possible that I can't believe you without proof. It's too easy to take a screenshot showing all those stacks, when it's adversely impacting our testing through invalid data.

[Deleted]

So "meh". Don't like such simplistic and crappy design. Tanking has been such a bore in WOD.

Yeah well... this is just my opinion. But I think it's a lot more exciting that on live, sitting on one stack of Boneshield waiting for runes to do Marrowrend really is adrenaline inducing