BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Northern Goblin]

Well, I'm guessing the initiation of it has to come from the Government so you can expect it not to happen too often.

If the markets collapsed next week and the entire of the EU bar us and Germany went bust, you can expect Cameron and Merkel to pull out faster than a teenage boy who just felt the rubber split.

[FuxieDK]

A referendum with 46 million ballots is hardly a computer game. You're simplifying the issue a bit too much. Shit costs money and a referendum like this costs a lot of money. Add that current storms in southern England provide logistical difficulties. Heck, voters can barely get to the polling stations because of floods in some parts.

1.000 votes per PS was an example, to demonstrate that there is no signifigant difference in time, regardless of a country's size..

[Northern Goblin]

The law of common sense does, that would be very bad economically.

The price of petrol hasn't jumped 10p a litre over the last 3 months due to oil prices, it's been due to the £ falling in value.

Aye, but I'm speaking theoretically. The point is the "THIS IS OUR ONE CHANCE" is bollocks, utter bollocks.

[Osmeric]

After Brexit and Grexit, we need words for other countries leaving the EU.

Czechout
Oustria
Byegium
Finish
Italeave
Departugal

[Deleted]

I wouldn't talk about unfair subsidies when 66% of what you pay flows right back into the UK as part of your rebate deals. I'd be really, really fucking careful about pointing fingers at others. You get access to the single market for a historically cheap discount and you should count your blessings for that. As for fishing, you fish in French and Norwegian waters as much as they fish in yours, so cut the crap about some idiot fishing in your waters. The limitations that were put in place were put in place because your dumbass fishing industry was acutally literally emptying the oceans. No more fish, no more fishing. That's a simple concept you should be able to understand.

You're importing more goods. Yes, and that'll continue. And you (the end consumer) will either pay customs for it, because you're not part of the single market, or you'll lose all special deals you made in the process of renegotiating access to the single market. What, did you think things would continue as they are if you leave? What the fuck do you think is going to happen when you just quit the EU? Do you think you're entitled to the same preferential treatment that you got so far? Newsflash, you're going to lose that privilege.

And the sentiment that "you're the outsiders" that's a purely British sentiment. The whole idea of "we're different" is exclusively a UK idea. Europe never said that. Europe never wanted that. Europe was always fucking annoyed at England somehow insinuating that they never fully commit to the cause, that they think they're better than everyone else. Well then, you are. Prove it. :P

As for the other countries wanting to leave, they'll need to understand a crucial thing about the EU. All the advantages of the EU, nobody is entitled to them. They're privileged to having been invited. And these advantages are only offered to members or to countries making huge ass concessions to get them (Norway, Switzerland, who btw still aren't done negotiating, and they've started what 70 years ago?).

You make out that the single market is some golden ticket when a number of none eu countries have access to so why is the uk a taboo is it because your bitter ? Your figures on on what the uk get back are coming out of fin air as you can look up the eu budget to see where its all going and we arnt getting its more like 40% where as a country like france get 55% back and over countries get even more than they put in but my point being your wrong.

So on imports you think the eu is going to add on massive taxes thats going to make things more expensive well i think you know what happens there dont you we go else where for are goods. like china and america but lets face it big business as i said dont think with emotion they think about the bottom line profit counties wont mess around with childish games if its costing jobs and there economy.

The fishing water rights i dont think you understand each nation has a limit to how much they can catch and the eu gave the spanish fishermen the right to fish in are water and capped the amount we can fish. This limits are income from fishing but if we leave the eu we have full control over are fishing water that means we can fish more and make more money ok ?

try to make your next reply less emotion more facts and i mean actual facts

[Deleted]

What Aviemore said is completely true. Germany completely decided what Greece should do contrary to the people. And a default would not be bad for Greece. There were really only two ways for a humane resolution. Greece is allowed to default and introduce it's own currency. Or cuts into Greece's debt. Instead Germany performed a financial holocaust on them. Let's not forget Germany got one of the largest debt write offs in hsitory after WW2.

Your point about Germany trying to get Greece out of a hole is just adorable. You have no idea how the world works. The whole point was to force Greece into selling off national assets. Do you even understand the money that got lent to Greece is the problem? The money that is being lent right now is still the problem? It only creates more debt. Now I'm not saying Greece did everything right. But the blame is on the lender aswell. The money got lent in hopes this exact situation would happen.

They didn't have to take the money, they didnt have to agree to the terms. It's up to them. If they wanted to crash and burn it was all up to them. Germany didn't force them to accept or make the deal.

Put the blame where it should be. If you decide to take a massive loan from a bank the bank will put the terms not you. Beggars can't be chosers as they say.

So you should have taken the default i guess. But that is your countries problem not Germany. Blame YOUR politicians for their failing.

[Deleted]

Voted and voted to remain.

Even with UKIP blaring their van around the street with bollocks about "THIS IS OUR ONE CHANCE" No it's fucking not you morons.

whats the chance of another cumbrian being on here sup marra

[dribbles]

How soon do you think we could get another referendum?

The date of the next Brexit referendum is already set. 7th May 2020.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Trade deals for the most part will be settle asap as not doing so out of spite isnt very smart as it cost other nations as much as it costs ares.

you really have no idea how things in the real world actually work do you rofl

You make out that the single market is some golden ticket when a number of none eu countries have access to so why is the uk a taboo is it because your bitter ?

you mean like Norway? that pays a similar amount into the EU as the UK, has absolutely no influence in the EU (has to beg Finland and Sweden to push things it wants to happen) and has to accept free movement of people as part of being a member of the single market?

The fishing water rights i dont think you understand each nation has a limit to how much they can catch and the eu gave the spanish fishermen the right to fish in are water and capped the amount we can fish. This limits are income from fishing but if we leave the eu we have full control over are fishing water that means we can fish more and make more money ok ?

the eu also gave us the equal right to fish in spanish waters
it also imposed limits to stop overall overfishing - ie, to stop us fucking our own fishing supplies

try to make your next reply less emotion more facts and i mean actual facts

practice what you preach

honestly sad we can't take every single idiot that wants to vote leave, tie them all down to chairs and force them to watch and understand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

[Northern Goblin]

whats the chance of another cumbrian being on here sup marra

There's a few of us about, it's a small country.

[Cyberowl]

You make out that the single market is some golden ticket when a number of none eu countries have access to so why is the uk a taboo is it because your bitter ? Your figures on on what the uk get back are coming out of fin air as you can look up the eu budget to see where its all going and we arnt getting its more like 40% where as a country like france get 55% back and over countries get even more than they put in but my point being your wrong.

So on imports you think the eu is going to add on massive taxes thats going to make things more expensive well i think you know what happens there dont you we go else where for are goods. like china and america but lets face it big business as i said dont think with emotion they think about the bottom line profit counties wont mess around with childish games if its costing jobs and there economy.

The fishing water rights i dont think you understand each nation has a limit to how much they can catch and the eu gave the spanish fishermen the right to fish in are water and capped the amount we can fish. This limits are income from fishing but if we leave the eu we have full control over are fishing water that means we can fish more and make more money ok ?

try to make your next reply less emotion more facts and i mean actual facts

Your facts are probably from some Daily Fail trash article with journalists with the economical knowledge of a sledge dog only capable of a zero sum game. I kinda trust IWF, Bank of England, financial institutes, nobel price winners in economics and the scientific consensus more (hello Adam Smith?).

Stop getting your news from some trash "news" magazines; most of your stuff has been debunked dozens of times. Example? Why can't you have a deal ala Switzerland? Because in the referendum you are deciding AGAINST freedom of movement if you leave, something that Switzerland has to do even without them being part of the EU.

That's why the referendum was a bad idea from Cameron. The power of stupid in large numbers.

[DarkAmbient]

Well considered that if we vote to leave, Scotland will be having another independence referendum as quickly as possible, we can have one again as soon as we want.

If we vote to remain, I guarantee you there will be a party in the next general election that runs with the promise of another referendum with regards to EU membership.

Depends how close a possible Remain vote is. If it's, say, 52% remain/48% leave then you could be right. Such a slim win will do little to settle the EU question.

I think a narrow win for Remain will have a very interesting effect on UK politics. For one, I don't see how the Tories can move on from this comfortably. They have too many Eurosceptics in their ranks for them to put the issue to bed. It wouldn't surprise me if a new political group emerges.

[Slant]

What Aviemore said is completely true. Germany completely decided what Greece should do contrary to the people. And a default would not be bad for Greece. There were really only two ways for a humane resolution. Greece is allowed to default and introduce it's own currency. Or cuts into Greece's debt. Instead Germany performed a financial holocaust on them. Let's not forget Germany got one of the largest debt write offs in hsitory after WW2.

Your point about Germany trying to get Greece out of a hole is just adorable. You have no idea how the world works. The whole point was to force Greece into selling off national assets. Do you even understand the money that got lent to Greece is the problem? The money that is being lent right now is still the problem? It only creates more debt. Now I'm not saying Greece did everything right. But the blame is on the lender aswell. The money got lent in hopes this exact situation would happen.

I like the condescension. Almost makes you sound like you know what you're talking about. I've said it three times in this thread already and I've said it a couple dozen times in the Greece thread. You can always refuse to take the money. Your Government was democratically elected, was it not? They accepted the money on your behalf. That makes it a democratic decision. They agreed on those terms, still democratic. If you want to be all technical about it, the Greek people did democratically decide to do what Germany wanted. It's all there, you guys even had a vote on it. So don't give me this bullshit about how Germany forced anyone. We didn't. We offered money, Greece took it, along with all the conditions attached to it.

What debt write off are you referring to? That red herring claim by some Greeks about some obscure reparations debt that you largely ignored until now when it became convenient to bring it up again? Don't make me laugh, that's just pathetic.

I like your use of the word holocaust, though. Really shows the context you're thinking in. And obviously you didn't understand the nature of these payments. It creates more debt, but it also stretches the debt out over a way longer period of time. Short term that means Greece gets breathing air to jump start the economy into resembling something that could pass muster as a somewhat functional economy at first glance. Hopefully one that doesn't need further injections from Germany. The main goal right now is to keep Greece going RIGHT NOW and then worry about the fallout in ten years when Greece has the financial means to deal with the crash they produced ten years ago.

Make no mistake, we're not giving you the money as a gift. We want it back. What we're giving you is far more important, it's time. We give you time to fix your shit and deal with everything later when Greece is stronger. If you still haven't grasped that, then perhaps we should let you rot, because obviously the message isn't getting through.

Put it in simple words: You are shite at handling money. Learn it. Learn it real fucking fast, because this is literally the last chance you get at avoiding being dead last behind Eritrea on the economical side. Nobody in the world, not even fucking Gambia would lend you money at the moment. You're the worst kind of piece of shit borrower we have on the planet at the moment. Be glad someone is helping you, stop the whinging, shut up and start actually working for once in your recent history.

- - - Updated - - -

If the markets collapsed next week and the entire of the EU bar us and Germany went bust, you can expect Cameron and Merkel to pull out faster than a teenage boy who just felt the rubber split.

Yes, and if an Asteroid falls on mainland Europe, I expect the UK will pull out as well. Would you like to stick to more likely scenarios than those two, though?

[Noradin]

See if you keep thinking its about money you will never understand leave voters.

Leaving would not recover any sovereignity, it would mean giving it away.
Right now the UK gets a voice in EU matters, if they leave they won't anymore.
The UK would go from deciding matters as a group to letting a group decide for them.

How is that a gain in sovereignity?

[Deleted]

Depends how close a possible Remain vote is. If it's, say, 52% remain/48% leave then you could be right. Such a slim win will do little to settle the EU question.

I think a narrow win for Remain will have a very interesting effect on UK politics. For one, I don't see how the Tories can move on from this comfortably. They have too many Eurosceptics in their ranks for them to put the issue to bed. It wouldn't surprise me if a new political group emerges.

I could easily see UKIP and the Eurosceptic Tories merging into some sort of slightly further right wing than the Tories, but slightly more centre than UKIP party, because lets face it, UKIP will never actually get elected.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the conservatives if that does happen.

[Deleted]

you really have no idea how things in the real world actually work do you rofl

I know it can go 2 ways we will do a deal with the eu body and remain in the free market to limit the damage or we will leave and do it individually that might take longer but as i said it before in an early post i voted knowing full well what might happen and i felt the long term benefit outweighed the short term aka the next 5 plus years.

[BatteredSausage]

Voted leave, get away from these German cunts making all the wrong decisions.
Fuck Germany fuck Brussels, we didnt need them before and we dont need them now.

[Slant]

You make out that the single market is some golden ticket when a number of none eu countries have access to so why is the uk a taboo is it because your bitter ? Your figures on on what the uk get back are coming out of fin air as you can look up the eu budget to see where its all going and we arnt getting its more like 40% where as a country like france get 55% back and over countries get even more than they put in but my point being your wrong.

So on imports you think the eu is going to add on massive taxes thats going to make things more expensive well i think you know what happens there dont you we go else where for are goods. like china and america but lets face it big business as i said dont think with emotion they think about the bottom line profit counties wont mess around with childish games if its costing jobs and there economy.

The fishing water rights i dont think you understand each nation has a limit to how much they can catch and the eu gave the spanish fishermen the right to fish in are water and capped the amount we can fish. This limits are income from fishing but if we leave the eu we have full control over are fishing water that means we can fish more and make more money ok ?

try to make your next reply less emotion more facts and i mean actual facts

Wtf you on about? The 66% flowing back to Britain is generally accepted as correct. Like... it's an actual fact. You can deny it if you want and base your assumptions on that, but it'd be a majorly fucking stupid mistake.

Ah, imports... once more I ask this: What is the UK exporting? Because try as I might, aside from financial services (which will be transplanted into the EU in a Brexit) and potatoe chips, I cannot think of anything you actually export to mainland Europe. What is it you export? It's not cars, I know that much. It's not computers... our steel is pretty fucking cheap, we don't get oil from you, nor gas. Fish? We get that from Scandinavia. Our clothing from the far east... What exactly is it that I'd be missing? Because try as I might, I cannot think of anything in my house that is actually British.

You got nothing, mate. And that's the harsh truth of it. You just got nothing...

[Noradin]

You know, This is sums the situation perfectly.

Double standards if you ask me, wake up.

Your whole chain of arguments collapses because the point you base it on is false.
It applies to the UK though.

[Deleted]

Leaving would not recover any sovereignity, it would mean giving it away.
Right now the UK gets a voice in EU matters, if they leave they won't anymore.
The UK would go from deciding matters as a group to letting a group decide for them.

How is that a gain in sovereignity?

So your saying having some people who are unelected by are nation having powers to make laws is fine ? and being locked in to the eu legal system that we cant change laws with out there say so ? Atleast not being part of the eu we can vote goverments out and hold the accountable can you say the same to the eu ?