[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Morally Grey Storm]

if people would follow this rule to the letter then they would quickly find out that the spec is not broken. a lot of people keep waiting for no god damn reason because they dont understand how it plays, have to wait because they fucked up, then say the spec is broken after 5 minutes go gameplay at level 100 at prepatch.

if people would cast their gaze at negative mobility, inferior dps, nonexistant stapel of Retribution Paladins that was support and heals, retardedly retarded GBlessings feature, a few very bestest talents the likes of Equality, carboncopy core mechanic from very different class tucked ontop of another carboncopy mechanic of yet another, very different class, they could see for themselves what is broken and what is not.

[Deleted]

Mostly for pvp interested people:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745684516#2
Bluepost regarding Ret's "role" in Legion. Well, lol. Absolutely lol. And I bet, because of this, the specc will be avoided as hell in PvE too, because the core "toolkit" is the same, regardless of the almighty PvP-talent-tree.

[lolskillzz]

Mostly for pvp interested people:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745684516#2
Bluepost regarding Ret's "role" in Legion. Well, lol. Absolutely lol. And I bet, because of this, the specc will be avoided as hell in PvE too, because the core "toolkit" is the same, regardless of the almighty PvP-talent-tree.

Thats the final nail in the coffin for me. its funny too because when we had our niche roll at the start of wod being a support dps and doing good damage while being very supportive in comps like php/cupid, the entire pvp community cried that we countered all the top comps (most were very cc heavy comps like god comp, rmp, rmd etc) and we see how we were nerfed for that.

[Teleros]

Mostly for pvp interested people:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745684516#2
Bluepost regarding Ret's "role" in Legion. Well, lol. Absolutely lol. And I bet, because of this, the specc will be avoided as hell in PvE too, because the core "toolkit" is the same, regardless of the almighty PvP-talent-tree.

What, were you expecting a design that would let Rets get to BlizzCon ?

...

"Regarding Retribution's role, we do agree it should be about being a support damage dealer."
"We agree it should be this, but will design it differently."

"We want Retribution's niche to be about countering opponents."
"We want you to counter enemies, but will provide next to no useful tools for this role."

"Honor Talents such as Vengeance Aura make Retribution a nasty opponent for crowd-control heavy opponents, such as a Rogue/Mage/Priest composition in arena."
"We're going to give you a powerful buff that only lasts 6secs and won't matter because of your mobility."

"Blessing of Sanctuary (also an Honor Talent) empowers the Ret to be able to cross-dispel which is very powerful and unique to that spec."
"BoSanc (which can't be taken with the above) lets you buff your enemies some more."

"That said, Retribution also provides off-healing support and should provide meaningful damage."
"GLHF getting silenced. Oh, and PvE damage will be tuned fine."

...

Right, on to the next topic :P .

[Morally Grey Storm]

Mostly for pvp interested people:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745684516#2
Bluepost regarding Ret's "role" in Legion. Well, lol. Absolutely lol. And I bet, because of this, the specc will be avoided as hell in PvE too, because the core "toolkit" is the same, regardless of the almighty PvP-talent-tree.

oh why, but thank you for delivering this sliver of golden wisdom unto us.
Now those whiny brats who whine and act like fotm rerollers will know!
Let us see...

Regarding Retribution's role, we do agree it should be about being a support damage dealer

..and will give you next to no support abilities, while cutting the ones you had or forcing you to use your "team" utility only on yourself.

We want Retribution's niche to be about countering opponents. Honor Talents such as Vengeance Aura make Retribution a nasty opponent for crowd-control heavy opponents, such as a Rogue/Mage/Priest composition in arena.

So...Vengeance Aura counters who and how?

Random Mage McMagic: "OHNOOOEEZ! That Ret now can crit 0.15 times more often and his Holy damaging skills(we still do have those, right? right??) are aswell strongar by 0,15 times! I feel sooooo countered!"

Somesillyname Paladin: " I will counter you even more! You thought that you lowered my hp, but I shall now Unleash the Holy Fart for 35% of my hp! How's that!?"

Random Mage McMagic: "OP NREF BLIZZ"

Yeah, riight.

Blessing of Sanctuary (also an Honor Talent) empowers the Ret to be able to cross-dispel which is very powerful and unique to that spec

...and is a same-tier talent with Vengeance Aura, meaning you either "counter(lol irl)" enemies, or "support(very strongly now)" your teammates.
Not to mention being able to dispel was always a Ret thing, since, like, Vanilla I guess?

Retribution also provides off-healing support

orly?
No, really?

This is pure gold.
Thank you again Loewenherz.
I am now very enlightened.
Enlighteneder than befoar.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Gotta admit, it hurts my head reading that response.

[Deleted]

@Nemmar

You don't delay Judgment. It doesn't matter how much Holy Power you have at the time. Judgment is now the first priority. Everything else just falls into place.

Thanks.

I does make it better like that and solves some of my problems with CD's clashing. Though ES is still off. The whole spec isn't really for me anymore though. I have way more fun playing warrior now (inner rage + wrecking ball feels like proper Ret). Despite this rotation beeing better, the point still stands that both mechanics fight each other. I don't see that changing during legion.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thanks.

I does make it better like that and solves some of my problems with CD's clashing. Though ES is still off. The whole spec isn't really for me anymore though. I have way more fun playing warrior now. Despite this rotation beeing better, the point still mantains that both mechanics fight each other. I don't see that changing during legion.

I don't blame you for feeling that way. I doubt we'll get back the WoD design. I mean that would be great but it seems very unlikely. The funny part in all this is the fact our Artifact(Ashbringer) would still work and function in that said system at least mechanically.

[Snegovik]

Mostly for pvp interested people:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745684516#2
Bluepost regarding Ret's "role" in Legion. Well, lol. Absolutely lol. And I bet, because of this, the specc will be avoided as hell in PvE too, because the core "toolkit" is the same, regardless of the almighty PvP-talent-tree.

I honestly believe none of those devs pvp as Retribution above 1.5k cr in rated....i posted following to their comment, but i doubt i will get any response
"Dear Devs, yes I get that you try to fulfill Retribution “fantasy” of a this support roll and this is great; however, we do not have the necessary tools to competitive at high end Rated PvP (or even a mid-pack in case of RBGs @ 2.1kcr+ on US servers). Currently on Beta/Ptr we have several big weaknesses: 1) Mobility, 2) Survival, all our defensive cds are very weak and have long cd compared to other classes, furthermore Retribution is only dps spec in game whose ALL major Defensive cds can be MD, or most of them can be purged, dispelled SS 3) meaningful support: we do not bring enough of a support or tool kit to be viable in RBGs, in Arena we lost our instant heals, our BOP, freedom can be dispelled/purged/SS 4) Vengeance Aura is nice in casual pvp or low rated pvp; however, at high end good players will simply kite/cc us while killing our soft teammate (like hunter) or just cc our healer and Burst us down, in both cases aura does not do much to us 5) our dmg is decent as of now, but Retribution has one of the worst scaling among other dps classes, so we will get weaker relatively to every1 else as we progress in to the expansion.
Yes, you may say that Holy spec is viable, but I am a DPSer I do not want to roll Holy ( a totally different game play) just to be “viable”; furthermore, I believe Paladin is the Only DPS class in entire game that never got to Blizzcon’s semi finals or higher, I think it is a good indication that the balance in rated pvp is off when it comes to Paladin DPS class.
I would love to hear your thoughts on concerns mentioned above.
Thank you"

[ruiizu]

From reading that thread, there was one nugget I wasn't aware of. I didn't know Luminescence worked from Justicar's Vengeance healing. Or didn't work, if you're fighting Mages or Priests I guess.

[Morally Grey Storm]

wondering where's Reghiment with his ever so solid counter-arguments .
This time we are in dire need of his support .

[Biral Sunherald]

New build out:

Crusader Strike - 20% increased damage.
Blade of Wrath - 40% increased initial damage, 15% increased DoT damage
Blade of Justice - 40% increased damage
Zeal - 35% increased damage
Blinding Light clarified to deal Holy damage
Templar's Verdict - 30% increased damage
Judgment - 20% increased damage

Consecration - 135% reduced damage over time

All of these changes are to the base AP% bonuses. So while CS gets 20% increased AP contribution, it's less than 20% additional damage.

[snackfeat]

New build out:

Crusader Strike - 20% increased damage.
Blade of Wrath - 40% increased initial damage, 15% increased DoT damage
Blade of Justice - 40% increased damage
Zeal - 35% increased damage
Blinding Light clarified to deal Holy damage
Templar's Verdict - 30% increased damage
Judgment - 20% increased damage

Consecration - 135% reduced damage over time

All of these changes are to the base AP% bonuses. So while CS gets 20% increased AP contribution, it's less than 20% additional damage.

So consecration heals the enemy now?

[Biral Sunherald]

So consecration heals the enemy now?

ikr?

Yeah, they reduced the damage of Consecration from 1+45%AP every second to 1+30%AP every second, resulting in a net loss of 135% AP over the 9 sec duration.

[Daralii]

TV's new coefficient is 420%. Does that confirm ret's a meme spec?

[Morally Grey Storm]

So consecration heals the enemy now?

topkek \0/

[Deleted]

The variation in damage from the previous build is as follows:

Crusader Strike - 12% increased damage.
Blade of Wrath - 40% increased initial damage, 35% increased DoT damage
Blade of Justice - 12% increased damage
Zeal - 12% increased damage
Templar's Verdict - 7% increased damage
Judgment - 10% increased damage
Consecration - 33% reduced damage over time

New build out:

Crusader Strike - 20% increased damage.
Blade of Wrath - 40% increased initial damage, 15% increased DoT damage
Blade of Justice - 40% increased damage
Zeal - 35% increased damage
Blinding Light clarified to deal Holy damage
Templar's Verdict - 30% increased damage
Judgment - 20% increased damage

Consecration - 135% reduced damage over time

All of these changes are to the base AP% bonuses. So while CS gets 20% increased AP contribution, it's less than 20% additional damage.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm not sure what you even mean by it's actually X.

[Snegovik]

Actually it is:

Crusader Strike - 12% increased damage.
Blade of Wrath - 40% increased initial damage, 35% increased DoT damage
Blade of Justice - 12% increased damage
Zeal - 12% increased damage
Templar's Verdict - 7% increased damage
Judgment - 10% increased damage
Consecration - 33% reduced damage over time

Well if we want to be accurate then CS increase 12.5%
Judgement 10%
TV 7.69%
Blade of Justice 12.5%
Blade of Wrath 40% initial and 37.5% dot
Zeal 12.28%

[Deleted]

Hey,

wowhead also mention: " Execution Sentence A hammer slowly falls from the sky, dealing (1620%->1200% of Attack power) Holy damage after 8 se"