[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Looks like something that will be in our class hall somewhere, although I couldn't find them will help with doing world quests and stuff.

Indeed. I wonder if these will go along the same path as the garrison consumables like the XP potion you could buy with resources (only wIth Order Hall resources this go around).

[FinestHour]

wait does nem/dr/cb build take first blood
what other build am i using thats both demonic and fb

[Christhammer]

Just tried Demon Blades on the beta now. Terrible talent. Demon's Bite generates Fury much faster (luckily!) and it also resets Felblade (Demon blades does not, or extremely rarely).

So yeah, never gonna use Demon Blades.

[Vanyali]

Just tried Demon Blades on the beta now. Terrible talent. Demon's Bite generates Fury much faster (luckily!) and it also resets Felblade (Demon blades does not, or extremely rarely).

So yeah, never gonna use Demon Blades.

Demon Blades resets Felblade just as often.

Demon's Bite's generation also takes up a GCD, while Dblades can bank fury on a GCD, leading to 2x the fury per GCD "spent".

You're using it incorrectly.

[MightyWarrior]

I really, really dislike the idea of Demon Blades. We're meant to be Demon Hunters, not fast paced warriors.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

It's silly to me that the talent that removes a button from the rotation can be used incorrectly.

[BurningBurns]

So what build does DB fit into? I used it a bit while leveling, but haven't played with it much at 110

[Vanyali]

It's silly to me that the talent that removes a button from the rotation can be used incorrectly.

If you're not aware of the GCD-lock (which is perfectly fair, as it's not indicated at all), you can very much use it incorrectly. And end up overcapping without realizing why, or getting in a drought and not being able to figure out why.

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So what build does DB fit into? I used it a bit while leveling, but haven't played with it much at 110

CB / Nem build primarily. With the legendary ring it'll probably be best for momentum as well, but it's a lot rougher due to time spent not AA, though with ideal play those times would only be when you were using your GCD anyway.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

If you're not aware of the GCD-lock (which is perfectly fair, as it's not indicated at all), you can very much use it incorrectly. And end up overcapping without realizing why, or getting in a drought and not being able to figure out why.

Right, I just meant that it seems to go against Blizzard's stated design goals for talents this expansion. Demonic Appetite is really the new player friendly option of the row--maybe Demon Blades just needs a better tooltip.

[Vanyali]

Right, I just meant that it seems to go against Blizzard's stated design goals for talents this expansion. Demonic Appetite is really the new player friendly option of the row--maybe Demon Blades just needs a better tooltip.

TBH, despite its reputation for the "noob talent", it's never been that way except maybe the first iteration where it proc'd 100% of the time, off and on GCD. It's always been a mathy weird talent.

Tooltip is in need of clarification though; shouldn't have to go to theorycrafters to know it won't proc while you're on GCD

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Some kind of indicator of how many Demon Blades charges you have banked up from filled GCD's would be great.

Is there any way to make a WA for that or is that kind of request something more appropriate for the official beta thread?

[Christhammer]

Demon Blades resets Felblade just as often.

Demon's Bite's generation also takes up a GCD, while Dblades can bank fury on a GCD, leading to 2x the fury per GCD "spent".

You're using it incorrectly.

It does not. Resets much more often with Demon's Bite.

As i said, i just tested it. Fury regen was much better with Demon's Bite.
Why do you want Demon Blades to be good? Sit and wait for Fury is not fun.

After testing it i can say that i would never ever use it. Slower gameplay and less Fury to spend. Garbage.

[Vanyali]

It does not. Resets much more often with Demon's Bite.

As i said, i just tested it. Fury regen was much better with Demon's Bite.
Why do you want Demon Blades to be good? Sit and wait for Fury is not fun.

After testing it i can say that i would never ever use it. Slower gameplay and less Fury to spend. Garbage.

I don't *want* it to be good, I have the awareness of the talent to be aware of how it works and that it *is* good.

It has the exact same chance as Dbite. You can claim it doesn't, but

a) your samples are likely both too short and a single time for each one and;
b) not accounting for the fact that it won't reset if you're using a gcd on something else.


You can feel free to not use it. But don't spread ideas about it that are wrong because you don't like it, because that's moronic. If you don't like it, don't take it. Moaning about how bad it is when the reality of the talent is against you doesn't make it magically go away.

[Julian5]

Idk where you saw that but, that doesn't happen in the beta.

It was in the uncategorized spells section of the notes. Odd that it didn't seem to actually change.

[BurningBurns]

What is our stat priority looking like now? Haven't seen it posted since the CS nerf? Is crit still king? And does it vary based on which spec you're playing? I would guess Haste is king for DB?

[Vanyali]

What is our stat priority looking like now? Haven't seen it posted since the CS nerf? Is crit still king? And does it vary based on which spec you're playing? I would guess Haste is king for DB?

Crit is still king for every build. I don't believe you can even get enough haste for it to be relevant for DBlades.

[Julian5]

Demon Blades in particular gets better the more crit you have, more so then with haste, right? Since with high crit you have a good chance of having banked charges after a string of Chaos Strikes (since more crit = more Chaos Strikes = more time to bank charges), allowing you to basically go back to full Fury almost instantly within a couple of autos, especially with the legendary ring.

[Vanyali]

From what I've seen, yes. No sims to back that up (still need to work with AMRs sim since it's the only once I've seen), but that's consistent with the way crit works in general for havoc. Haste just.. you get no use out of it until and unless you hit the "cap", at which point you're so crit-starved you'll be doing absolutely nothing.

[Etrnlaffair]

If you're not aware of the GCD-lock (which is perfectly fair, as it's not indicated at all), you can very much use it incorrectly. And end up overcapping without realizing why, or getting in a drought and not being able to figure out why.

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CB / Nem build primarily. With the legendary ring it'll probably be best for momentum as well, but it's a lot rougher due to time spent not AA, though with ideal play those times would only be when you were using your GCD anyway.

No ring for us though. :/

[Mefistophelis]

At least thi build is yet another tiny adjustment. The add-on of baleful tokens means they are listening.

What about baleful tokens? Must have missed it.