BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Kallisto]

Turkey will join, but not as quickly now. Sadly the UK Government was working with Turkey to get them in sooner.

No it won't. Certainly not in the lifetime of any demographic that were a majority of voting leave. Just look at a map of Europe, find Cyprus, find half the Island occupied by said country wanting to join EU. Now find in the booklet of EU laws about Vetoes. Now add all that together, you see a country wanting to join a group you're part of. But at the same time has stolen half your stuff. Are you going to allow that person to join or are you going to slam the face in their door?

Cyprus will Veto Turkey until it gets what it wants.

[Mehrunes]

Knee jerk reactions aren't a reliable source of responses. It was always going to be a Fall on Leave. Rise on Remain. Give it some time, the pound will stabilise, and overall there will be a drop no doubt, but not the -5% we saw this morning. It will level out.

"A drop no doubt" is still not a leavers' argument. And we're talking about UK that hasn't even began the withdrawal procedure. Since there is no way under the Sun that the deal UK negotiates will be better than what they have now, I somehow doubt it won't get worse once UK actually leaves.

[Hyve]

EU won't lose it either way because the UK has no alternative. What are they going to replace 45% of their trade with, Canada?

Again; We've always maintained we want, and intend to, trade with the E.U., and the E.U. intends to trade with us. Should however a few aspects become a little annoying, such as some controlled substances or whatever, there will no doubt be other people willing to buy those goods and services.

But I thought job terking was a menace? And you want more of that menace to enter?

Not sure what you're getting at here.

So is an alien invasion. And weirdly enough, UK wasn't against this idea in the past. Internal EU migration is the cornerstone of EU and outside migration doesn't really affect UK thanks to their opt outs. The stability of southern EU members will only get worse thanks to UK and since they'll have to remain in the EEA if they don't want to trade with the Moon instead, they will be affected by it regardless of whether they are in or out.

Strangely the UK actually is generally, very much against Turkey joining the EU. I don't want to cite myself and friends as a reliable source, that'd be stupid, but I don't think I've once encountered someone wanting Turkey to join, especially with the recent Syrian Refugee agreements coming in.

Taxation is already up to member states and whatever deal your hardcore negotiators will manage to secure will be worse than the current state. Nothing but prosperity.

Competition Rules exist in the EU. Countries are allowed only a certain range of tax breaks or support, and if they break those the EU can fine the country. The UK had to fight very hard to allow the Games Industry in the UK a Tax Relief, something I personally am very grateful for, but it shouldn't really be that way. A country should have the right to say; "Farmers, you can charge X amount for your milk, just because some polish farms will lose out doesn't matter, go crazy!".

And again, I want to be clear; I voted Remain. I feel I need to add this every now and then to keep people aware.

[Kalis]

Is this the same world where the 5th economy shoots itself in the balls by committing collective monumental idiocy, initiated by the prime minister who championed against that idea? Because that doesn't sound very adult to me. But whatever, UK can do nothing wrong, but rises again, harder and stronger (UK = Ironborn in Got confirmed) and will magically dominate the negotiations with the EU.

Once again, the EU is not run by children, they will not destroy the UK to set some sort of example, because it is not in their interests to do so.

I have explained that the EU and UK economies are intertwined, especially with Ireland, yet that seems to have gone over your head, as you clearly do not understand what it means for negotiations.

There will be a deal acceptable to both the UK and EU, because it is in all their interests to do so, whereas acting like a bitter jilted girlfriend is not, even though it is what you would do.

The reason the UK got special snowflake status within the EU was because we have a powerful economy in relation to most other EU members, even with a downturn we will still have a powerful economy, one that is still important to other EU members.

The EU will act out of self interest, that self interest also means making sure the UK does not take down the economies of Ireland, Germany, etc., they will not spite the UK to prove a point, as the only point they would be making with that is they are more intersted in revenge than the remaining member states of the EU.

[Deleted]

Is this the same world where the 5th economy shoots itself in the balls by committing collective monumental idiocy, initiated by the prime minister who championed against that idea? Because that doesn't sound very adult to me. But whatever, UK can do nothing wrong, but rises again, harder and stronger (UK = Ironborn in Got confirmed) and will magically dominate the negotiations with the EU.

Indeed. That's the main reason I'm sad Cameron resigned. I want to beat that dead pig horse a 'lil more.

There will be a deal acceptable to both the UK and EU, because it is in all their interests to do so, whereas acting like a bitter jilted girlfriend is not, even though it is what you would do.

Oh Kalis nooooooooo. Honestly "acting like a bitter jilted girlfriend", don't assist your discussion partners in comebacks.

[Deleted]

Not particularly they can just attack it by saying this is what the Britain people voted for, that they wanted nothing to do with us. A lot of smart politicians will use this to further hatred of the British and their snobby ways which is not a really hard sell, that them not us mentality that got this vote to pass works both ways.

We voted to leave the European Union. We have not voted against Europe. We have not voted against the European people.

We have voted to peacefully leave the European Union. If the European Union decides to attack Britain for exercising democracy, that will only make the European Union look petty and against Democracy, which gives political parties that will be pushing for there own referendums more fuel against the European Union, which they can't afford.

The United Kingdom voting to leave the European Union has weakened the European Union, whether you want to accept that as fact or not, it is a fact. Therefore the European Union cannot be seen to be weak and petty, but must be seen to be able to rise above thoughts of us vs them, and get the best deal for the people of the European Union, and they can do that without unduly punishing the people of Britain.

[Wildtree]

Sounds like a tyranny. Even the Soviet Union allowed the Baltics to secede.

It's not tyranny when it is part of the inclusion deal.
It would be tyranny if you did not know upfront and/or someone changed the rules later down the road.

Plus the SCOTUS worded it perfectly before.
While it is unconstitutional to secede, no one can effectively keep any state from leaving, without declaring war on that state.

[Deleted]

Was it and parts of California etc part of Mexico before the Mexican/american war or something? (not particularly well read on that part of American history!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

[Noradin]

Texas isn't an independent nation rofl. You are comparing a state in a country to a country in the EU. A pretty huge difference, don't you think?

It was considered one back in the days.

[Elegiac]

Sounds like a tyranny. Even the Soviet Union allowed the Baltics to secede.

You, like most people on this board, have no idea what 'tyranny' actually means and throw it out to mean 'whatever system of government I don't like'.

[Hyve]

No it won't. Certainly not in the lifetime of any demographic that were a majority of voting leave. Just look at a map of Europe, find Cyprus, find half the Island occupied by said country wanting to join EU. Now find in the booklet of EU laws about Vetoes. Now add all that together, you see a country wanting to join a group you're part of. But at the same time has stolen half your stuff. Are you going to allow that person to join or are you going to slam the face in their door?

Cyprus will Veto Turkey until it gets what it wants.

Turkey will join the EU in my life-time, unless they choose not too. That's something many Leave campaigners were also worried about, but if you're going to showcase the legitimate reasons why it can't happen, I can't refute that, because you're right, as of right now at least. But many people, even in your own country, and all over the world don't often vote on facts, but snippets of information that is fed to them.

[Mehrunes]

And intransigence over free movement that meant we could not deal with a situation that needed dealing with, which in turn fuelled the claims of EU dictating policy that was not in the UK interest.

As much as many people hate Thatcher, she would have got something agreed.

No one is EU would get anything about something as basic for the EU as the freedom of movement. Blaming it on EU and not on UK not being able to manage their expectations and thinking they are some holy cow is asinine.

[Elegiac]

Oh my gawd are all of you actually going to use the US as an example of why a country shouldn't be able to leave the EU? LOL

Yes, because the United States had a civil war as a result of attempted secession and they have been remarkably better off maintaining the Union as a perpetual agreement.

[Afrospinach]

Can't believe they did it, was expecting a close remain but I was rooting for out. I think it was definitely the hard road but the right choice.

[Tabrotar]

Nah, they think someone who leaves and threatens sabotage is an hostile outsider who must be defended against and who should lose all previous privileges granted for being a member.

Exactly this.

[Elegiac]

Turkey will join the EU in my life-time, unless they choose not too. That's something many Leave campaigners were also worried about, but if you're going to showcase the legitimate reasons why it can't happen

Greece, and Cyprus.

[Mehrunes]

Indeed. That's the main reason I'm sad Cameron resigned. I want to beat that dead pig horse a 'lil more.

I wanted him to announce new Scottish independence referendum just for the lols and to completely bury himself.

[khalltusk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

Ah cool. So it was previously part of Mexico/under their rule until they left them.

[Elegiac]

The United Kingdom voting to leave the European Union has weakened the European Union

Remind me again why we -shouldn't- start treating the UK as a pariah.

[Vankrys]

Once again, the EU is not run by children, they will not destroy the UK to set some sort of example, because it is not in their interests to do so.

I have explained that the EU and UK economies are intertwined, especially with Ireland, yet that seems to have gone over your head, as you clealry do not understand what it means for negotiations.

There will be a deal acceptable to both the UK and EU, because it is in all their interests to do so, whereas acting like a bitter jilted girlfriend is not, even though it is what you would do.

The reason the UK got special snowflake status within the EU was because we have a powerful economy in relation to most other EU members, even with a downturn we will still have a powerful economy, one that is important to other EU members.

The EU will act out of self interest, that self interest also means making sure the UK does not take down the economies of Ireland, Germany, etc., they will not spite the UK to prove a point, as the only point they would be making with that is they are more intersted in revenge than the remaining member states of the EU.

trade agreement goes both way. If EU does give favorable conditions with a trade treaty, UK will have in return to give favorable conditions to EU.

There could be a case for asymetrical conditions between import and export, but in that case, EU has now more strength than UK, if anything by the size of its market.