BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Elegiac]

Its hilarious that you cannot realise this sentiment from European "elites" is one of the major reasons Britain is leaving.

And Britain leaving is just proving the elites' point.

[Deleted]

The vote "hasn't been won".

If you didn't notice, your whole country is split - not only between north and south, but also between young and old. North wants to stay. South wants out. Young people want to stay (65%), grandpas and grandmas want out (60%).

Harsh reality is that just as there is a minimum age to vote, there should be a maximum age to vote. There is no point for people with half a leg in the grave to decide the future of the youth.

Actually North wanted out

[Mehrunes]

Working with to "get in" and actually really wanting to get someone in are 2 different things. I would be extremely surprised if Turkey became a part of EU within 15-20 years.

Or this century. It's almost as if Cyprus alone could veto them till kingdom's come.

[Slant]

I am still not getting why people seem to think that the EU going into economic war with the UK is a good idea, the EU themselves would not want to do that, so why posters on here think it makes sense is mystifying.

What's mystifying is that you seem to somehow think the UK can negotiatie with the EU on equal terms. That somehow the EU needs to give the UK all those fucked up exceptions back, just so... the UK can live like they do now while telling us to fuck off?

You don't seem to get the message that was sent to the UK in no uncertain terms: Out means out. This means you get to be treated like Norway at best and like Gambia at worst. Depending on just how fucking annoying the UK wants to be in the negotiations. And if you get a deal that you could possibly sell as a win in the UK, that'll spawn instant protests in the rest of the EU. Do you actually think people on the continent are cheering you on? Do you actually think anyone outside the UK and populistic idiot parties actually supports what the UK just did?

You'll find in time that you're alone in this. And the national parties that are fake cheering you on now? They'll stab you in the back once they can profit from it with phrases like "Oh, we need to defend Germany against outrageous British demands!" so don't count on them helping you...

[Deleted]

[Not from the UK]
From an outside perspective point of view, I think this is a great opportunity because history is in the making. I think this will provide data for a very good research study to show the benefits of being in the EU/ leaving the EU because lets face it,there has been no similar situation.

So why do Norway and Switzerland not join the EU and enjoy better terms?

Tradition really.

One of the really interesting turn of events someone mentioned is that the 2 items that are imposed by the EU to Norway and Switzerland (Freedom to Move/ Acceptance of Rules set out by the European Union that they cannot vote/change) are the 2 items that people who voted for leave were most against. I dunno how the campaign went down in the UK( I saw the 350 million thing become a mess this morning), but to me the public seems greatly uninformed.

[Deleted]

Because the UK & Greece / Cyprus / Turkey all stand to gain or lose very different things from Turkey joining, and, considering the geographical, social, political and cultural differences, it's really not hard to see why;

For Cyprus, regaining control of the whole island to them is clearly a great thing.

For Greece, not having to fear about being the only nation to deal with border control, or Turkey Air-Space violations.

For Turkey, finally gaining access to the E.U. and all that it brings with it.

And for the UK, things are very different. We view things differently. We gain next to nothing from their membership, we risk an increase in migration which to some is a good enough reason to leave, we risk another nation with poor finances being in need of bailouts and support in many years to come.

It's not hard to forsee why some nations may favor Turkey joining, while others would not.

Not to forget, the buffer zone to the Middle East would be gone. No EU member in their right mind wants the EU have a common border with the likes of Syria.
Turkey isn't part of Europe anyway.

[Deleted]

I agree with you on principle and logic but that has nothing to do with politics, fanning the flames of empirical Britain screwing over other nations in the EU is not a hard stretch. This decision now means any economic misfortune warranted or not can be blamed on Britain, you can easily leverage that hate and anger that already exist into giving you coverage to punish Britain. There has always been a hatred of the British so being petty towards them will only increase your popularity, letting Britain walk away untouched would make all the EU members look weak and increase their odds of losing power in their own country.

Yes but all the reasons i've been putting forth are about politics. Logically they should punish the hell out of us as an example of what happens if someone leaves. But they can't, because all the independence parties in the EU are loving Brexit, and will be keeping a keen eye on it for any sign of the EU punishing democracy.

And all this is why I stated that I was thankful that the Brexit will take years to complete, so that emotions can die down, and calmer heads can rule.

[Noradin]

So why do Norway and Switzerland not join the EU and enjoy better terms?

Ask them, it is their decision if they want to apply.

[Mehrunes]

Yes there are.

Then how comes countries have different voting systems? By European standards electoral college is bizarre and would not fit their legal framework by a long shot.

[Kaesebrezen]

Actually North wanted out

I meant Scotland, but looks like that isn't "north".

[Elegiac]

What's mystifying is that you seem to somehow think the UK can negotiatie with the EU on equal terms. That somehow the EU needs to give the UK all those fucked up exceptions back, just so... the UK can live like they do now while telling us to fuck off?

You don't seem to get the message that was sent to the UK in no uncertain terms: Out means out. This means you get to be treated like Norway at best and like Gambia at worst. Depending on just how fucking annoying the UK wants to be in the negotiations. And if you get a deal that you could possibly sell as a win in the UK, that'll spawn instant protests in the rest of the EU. Do you actually think people on the continent are cheering you on? Do you actually think anyone outside the UK and populistic idiot parties actually supports what the UK just did?

You'll find in time that you're alone in this. And the national parties that are fake cheering you on now? They'll stab you in the back once they can profit from it with phrases like "Oh, we need to defend Germany against outrageous British demands!" so don't count on them helping you...

Quoted for truth. There is no conceivable benefit for the EU to treat Britain with anything resembling leniency; letting them get away with the Brexit runs the risk of compromising European integrity.

[Slant]

Another person with quite an excessive amount of aggression over this whole decision. It's like none of you were told about this being voted on a while back, or that there is a chance the Leave might win.

I mean, I will add that, No. The UK has not caused as much fiscal damage to the EU (as you claimed) as Greece has. Had this whole thing been damaging, of course, and that's sucky, but you know what's not going to help? Making trade difficult or impossible. Opening the trade channels, making it easy, even with tariffs, will see the economies bounce back, bring stability to the markets and restore any lost faith in the EU.

Yeah, I've accepted the vote a long time ago. I'm not concerned with the vote anymore. I'm concerned with the repercussions. And one of them is that I don't actually care one bit just how much the UK crashes in this. I'm worried about EU economy, not British economy. If that means tariffs, then so be it... We need to make sure that everyone on the planet gets the message that the UK is no longer the entry point for the EU. And if you want to be the entry point for the EU, you'll have to pay. A lot.

[Zoranon]

And Britain leaving is just proving the elites' point.

You mean that not everyone is into being ruled by an unaccountable group of people completely divorced from reality? If so, then yes.

Also as a self proclaimed socialist, are you not supposed to like the common people, not loathe them?

[Mehrunes]

No, there aren't. 'Democracy' is an umbrella term for a huge variety of political systems and ideologies, if we're going by the strictest sense the UK is one of the -least- democratic nations in the EU.

I'm pretty sure the "one of the" is not necessary here.

[Deleted]

The vote "hasn't been won".

If you didn't notice, your whole country is split - not only between north and south, but also between young and old. North wants to stay. South wants out. Young people want to stay (65%), grandpas and grandmas want out (60%).

Harsh reality is that just as there is a minimum age to vote, there should be a maximum age to vote. There is no point for people with half a leg in the grave to decide the future of the youth.

The vote was won by Remain.

Putting quotation marks around it doesn't change that fact.

We are now leaving the European Union, whatever the demographics were doesn't matter, we now have to deal with the results.

And once again, I voted to Remain. I am arguing against people stating that the UK should be punished for exercising democracy, I am not not arguing that Leave was correct, I don't think it was.

[Deleted]

What I find amusing is Europeans arguing with people who numerous times said they voted REMAIN

[Deleted]

What's the chance of the UK pulling out of the EEA anyway now?

After a day like this, absolutely not, there is enough disarray already.

[Kalis]

yeah, I know.
But the theoretical consequence remains, that you don't have to be an EU member to be part of the EEA.

The UK will not accept free movement from all EU nations, notably not from Poland, Bulgaria and Romania, as that is one of the main reasons people voted to leave.

[Baelic]

So why do Norway and Switzerland not join the EU and enjoy better terms?

Because Norway would lose it's Trillion dollar savings and Switzerland would lose the ability to keep it's banks secure and private.

[Draco-Onis]

Yes but all the reasons i've been putting forth are about politics. Logically they should punish the hell out of us as an example of what happens if someone leaves. But they can't, because all the independence parties in the EU are loving Brexit, and will be keeping a keen eye on it for any sign of the EU punishing democracy.

And all this is why I stated that I was thankful that the Brexit will take years to complete, so that emotions can die down, and calmer heads can rule.

I think we have to agree to disagree, I tend to believe in the darker parts of human nature which is why I was sure Brexit would happen if that trend continues I don't see any love coming Britain's way. As for the negotiation taking years I simply don't see that being beneficial to the EU, the sooner they can kick Britain out and make it hurt the better.

As of now Britain already has no diplomatic voice in EU affairs things can only get worse from there.