BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Noradin]

Denying the UK trade deals as some sort of financial punishment because we decided to democractically leave the EU would be seen as being against democracy.

Even worse would be sanctions and the like that some emotional people in this thread have bandied about.

It is not a punishment, we owe our member states preferential treatment.

[Theodarzna]

But there won't be an agreement that is all unicorn cum like some UK nationals are saying either, regardless of how strong UK negotiators may be. UK will end up in weaker position than it was before, making it an exercise in futility. EU doesn't have to do anything here, UK already did it to themselves.

And Eurocrats and UK can stab at each other needlessly over their hurt fee fee's, look I get it, Junker is the best thing since Jesus and Brussels and the Commission literally prevent the coming of the Anti-Christ/Putin/Undead mecha hitler, but lets just calm down for a moment. The EU is... PROBABLY not going to hurt itself even further over Junker's sense of pride. The UK will likely suffer a bit, all transitions are painfully, giving birth is painful and messy.

- - - Updated - - -

It is not a punishment, we owe our member states preferential treatment.

Will Greece be getting some preferential treatment any time soon?

[FluFF]

I believe the 2yr starts when new Prime Minister is elected in October, then the new PM will have 2yr to sort this out.

2 years start as soon as Britain invokes to start Article 50, the fact that Leave is blabbing all day about how there is no rush to do so is a clear sign they have no solid plan on what to do when they won, which is in itself worrying enough for British people.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah, we are nasty for wanting a better position for Europe and its ppl and UK is pure and innocent for whining that EU tries to help its weaker members to make the whole stronger.

The Greeks would be very shocked to learn that what they endure now is "EU Benevolence." Gosh I wonder what a mean EU looks like.

[Deleted]

2 years start as soon as Britain invokes to start Article 50, the fact that Leave is blabbing all day about how there is no rush to do so is a clear sign they have no solid plan on what to do when they won, which is in itself worrying enough for British people.

They give off a sense of men whose bluff has been called....

[Damajin]

So why are you not leaving as fast as possible? why is the leave party now begging to keep everything the way it is? if you are better off on your own why bother with the EU at all put up your wall like Donald Trump and pretend the rest of the world does not exist.

I'm American.

I don't know who is begging to keep things the way they are, that's silly talk. England shouldn't bother with the EU at all except in normal trade discussions as may be suitable and sovereign appropriate.

Building walls isn't pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist, not literally or conceptually. NOT building walls is pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist.

[Repefe]

Wouldn't the EU be happy they don't have to deal with the odd ball in the group? I mean the UK has a different legal tradition and everything and was kind of a constant thorn in the side of the project? Why punish the UK? Its relatively a good thing they bailed for the EU project.

The only reason for punishment is basically Junker's pride, or someone's foolish pettiness. Its not even like leaving the EU is some unplanned thing, its even legal.

After all the hoops EU had to jump for UK ... this end is just too disappointing. Don't blame EU and its ppl for wanting to vent some anger. No country in EU got more special treatment than UK and it still was not enough. In the future ppl in EU will probably be glad, but for now a period of healing is required. And that includes giving a finger to UK for some time.

[Deleted]

2 years start as soon as Britain invokes to start Article 50, the fact that Leave is blabbing all day about how there is no rush to do so is a clear sign they have no solid plan on what to do when they won, which is in itself worrying enough for British people.

or the fact that the leadership of the country needs to be sorted properly before we start. not so simple to understand really

[Deleted]

The Greeks would be very shocked to learn that what they endure now is "EU Benevolence." Gosh I wonder what a mean EU looks like.

The Greece issue did turn me into a leaver for a while, as it did with many on the left.

Ultimately I felt that it was a better idea to try and reform the EU rather than simply abandon it. A difficult one I'll admit. Obviously it is naive to expect eu reform-but the alternatives seemed worse.

[Mehrunes]

Alright, we've got 10 years to negotiate our new trade deals with the EU before we even leave, that sounds great. What was your point again?

You're both wrong. Yes, you're right that UK has two years (though it could be faster if they come to an agreement, kinda unlikely). Slant is right that trade negotiations take 10 years. But that is on average. However, and it is big however, that doesn't mean UK will necessarily get to negotiate for 10 years here. After those two years the Council will have to anonymously agree on extending this term. So if by the end of these two years UK and EU don't come to an agreement, because, for example, they will be under the delusion that they'll get to cherry-pick freedom of movement out of a continued membership in the EEA because UK stronk like Kalis claims, and a single country tells them to fuck off with their special-snowflakeness the negotiations are off and UK is simply out.

The negotiations then continue while UK is on its own until they are finished, which will kinda suck a lot. Though even if the negotiations continued for 10 years you'd be a member, sure. You'd also pay a fuckton (and hey, new EU budget will pass in the meantime which may include even greater UK participation). While you get marginalized and for once get to rightfully cry that EU doesn't care about what UK has to say (they'll be just preparing you for only EEA status after all).

[Deleted]

The Greence issue did turn me into a leaver for a while, as it did with many on the left.

Ultimately I felt that it was a better idea to try and reform the EU rather than simply abandon it. A difficult one I'll admit. Obviously it is naive to expect eu reform-but the alternatives seemed worse.

But Junker made it very very clear earlier this week that the EU has no intention of reform. I firmly believe this pushed a lot of people to a leave vote

[Deleted]

Similar to does not mean same as.

And its a delusion to think you can get the internal market and no movement of people - It's a non starter.

[FluFF]

or the fact that the leadership of the country needs to be sorted properly before we start. not so simple to understand really

Well Leave has been pushing the ''we want out '' wagon for years now, if they really wanted they could already have Cameron push the article 50 next week when he goes to Brussels to announce the result.
When I look at Farage or Johnson I don't see people who want to sort out a leadership before pushing article 50 asap, they just got little choice with Cameron stepping down + it's dumb to believe they would have any form of plan after winning that goes beyond invoking the article to do so officially.

[Deleted]

But Junker made it very very clear earlier this week that the EU has no intention of reform. I firmly believe this pushed a lot of people to a leave vote

If you don't believe in political reform, even as a remote possibility, then why take any interest in politics at all?

I believe the prospect of reforming the EU to be about the same as reforming the UK parliament.

[Theodarzna]

The Greece issue did turn me into a leaver for a while, as it did with many on the left.

Ultimately I felt that it was a better idea to try and reform the EU rather than simply abandon it. A difficult one I'll admit. Obviously it is naive to expect eu reform-but the alternatives seemed worse.

I liked the EU for its plausible reforms and for its work on Minority languages which is how my sister swayed me. But the treatment of Greece, Italy, ect, and left me not trusting it as an institution for good.

[Repefe]

The Greeks would be very shocked to learn that what they endure now is "EU Benevolence." Gosh I wonder what a mean EU looks like.

Greeks created the situation for themselves ... 10 years ago everyone was amazed how their system can work with those conditions and later on we learned the harsh truth. But the bottom line is EU didn't kick Greece out, it didn't give up on it; unlike UK.

[Draco-Onis]

Building walls isn't pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist, not literally or conceptually. NOT building walls is pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist.

Yes because this is 206 BC and walls are still a very effective way to stop people....

[Deleted]

Yeah, we are nasty for wanting a better position for Europe and its ppl and UK is pure and innocent for whining that EU tries to help its weaker members to make the whole stronger.

Yes, you've certainly helped Greece along a lot haven't you.

You were quite happy as long as they were borrowing money to buy lots of Germany Exports, as sooner as they stopped.. then the punishment beatings began.

[Theodarzna]

But Junker made it very very clear earlier this week that the EU has no intention of reform. I firmly believe this pushed a lot of people to a leave vote

Tis' why I find it hard to be emphatically in love with the EU as some on this board seem to be.

[Deleted]

I liked the EU for its plausible reforms and for its work on Minority languages which is how my sister swayed me. But the treatment of Greece, Italy, ect, and left me not trusting it as an institution for good.

Snap.



/