why would blizzard make spine of death wing all over again?:(

[Stingray0011]

The people saying Spine wasn't a horrible experience clearly never did it as a warlock

I did it as a warlock and I enjoyed it.

[FurryRedVixen]

From all accounts, the most bizare and technical fight ive ran across in any mmo so far is the Ozma and Sephirot fights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIM-Zo2xsNw Ozma

Sephirot is a 3 phase fight,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIM-Zo2xsNw Best music >.>

[shaunika123]

Without speaking in absolutes, Spine was hardly the worst encounter in Cata though I can definitely understand some people viewing the encounter as tedious. Honestly, the worst part wasn't the motion sickness or the add manipulation or even the burst nuke phases. It was the stupid fucking debuff that would wipe the raid if it wasn't dispelled properly. This is thankfully a mechanic we haven't seen since, so I hope Blizz learned their lesson from it.

curious, if spine wasnt worse what was?

the only fights i can think off are either madness due to how terribly underwhelming it was for an expansion finale or rhyolith due to how awkward and buggy the steering was for weeks

a. My class isn't the best so I hate this fight. There was more to it than add dps, remember the single target burst you're about to complain about in point c?
b. Valid point, but with no ground animations to worry about, how is this really that much of an issue?
c. Raid stacking wasn't required and 'legendary stacking' is invalid, unless your guild literally stopped heroic spine progression to farm firelands instead ..... you didn't, did you? The small window of opportunity required to kill the (essentially) last boss on heroic of the final raid of the expansion, god forbid they make it hard.
d. You complain about something that didn't effect your class, and as somebody who played a caster I can assure you, there were no wipes due to 'too much movement'.
e. Your opinion of dull is a fight where tank has to have a million little adds on him taking steady big damage, the healers have to deal with all of that, and the dps have to literally do their best possible dps in a short window of time, sounds like a challenging fight that didn't reward free loot like the rest of DS, where is the dullness in having to preform?
f. Yes most of DS was fairly easy, and yes Spine was largely more difficult. So that makes it the worst encounter ever because that actually stepped up raid difficulty for the end boss? Should they have kept it in rhythm with the rest of DS and just walk over it? Think about what you're complaining about here. Madness wasn't just simply a walk in and 1 shot after spine was killed, yes it was easier as you didn't have to have literally every single player going ham. It was still a rush to kill, lots of first kills weren't clean 1 shots.
g. I thought the idea of being on a massive dragon's back looked pretty cool, see how opinions make it hard to judge a fight? As for those getting motion sickness, you're complaining for them, and really .... it's hardly a thing.

You 100% look like you're just listing off things you read on a "spine is the worst encounter" thread.

i so fucking knew that if i provide actual points you're gonna play the "yeah i bet you read those complaints somewhere else" card or maybe if everyone is complaining about the same thing it actually is an issue? by your logic i cant complain abou something someone else has complained about before how does that make any sense?

also, in point a you attack me about being class centric and then in point d you attack me about not being class centric, make up your mind

and no spine shouldnt have been easier, the raid shouldve had a smoother difficulty curve not 3-3-3-3-3-3-10-8

and as i said, you can attack my individual posts since none of them by themselves make a fight horrible I EXPLICITLY SAID THAT ALL OF THEM COMBINED DO.

[Deleted]

All I remember about spine was finally getting it to the second push on the last tendon on heroic and I accidentally blow up the wrong side of the plate.

[orgonutil]

it is impossible to make new mechanics to every fight, and many many many fights recicle old mechanics

[Segus1992]

I highly doubt that. The beginning of Cata drove off a lot of the Vanilla crowd. If you're seriously going to argue that ANYONE who actually raided seriously during Vanilla would argue that Spine was difficult, you're out of your mind.

Uh, as someone who raided in Vanilla, 90% of the difficulty then was gathering and managing a huge raid, and getting them geared. Mechanics were often extremely simple and few.

[Relapses]

curious, if spine wasnt worse what was?

the only fights i can think off are either madness due to how terribly underwhelming it was for an expansion finale or rhyolith due to how awkward and buggy the steering was for weeks

Heroic Ascendant Council comes to mind... an encounter so mind-bogglingly stupidly tuned nearly every guild just skipped it. (Or killed it once for the sake of progression then said fuck it and never bothered to do it again.) I don't know anybody who remembers that encounter fondly and it was still a bitch to do even when you went in with a raid full of fully Heroic DS geared people.

[ComputerNerd]

well, google "worst boss fight in WoW" spine will be in top 3 in every single one of those lists.

so im not talking out of my ass.

And ignoring what I said entirely.
Those with a negative view yell and insist on sharing the volume of their arguments as "proof" instead of giving a good argument in the first place.
You just proved exactly what I said, relying on the quantity of supporting voices instead of actually giving any reasoning.

[Stingray0011]

curious, if spine wasnt worse what was?

the only fights i can think off are either madness due to how terribly underwhelming it was for an expansion finale or rhyolith due to how awkward and buggy the steering was for weeks





i so fucking knew that if i provide actual points you're gonna play the "yeah i bet you read those complaints somewhere else" card or maybe if everyone is complaining about the same thing it actually is an issue? by your logic i cant complain abou something someone else has complained about before how does that make any sense?

also, in point a you attack me about being class centric and then in point d you attack me about not being class centric, make up your mind

and no spine shouldnt have been easier, the raid shouldve had a smoother difficulty curve not 3-3-3-3-3-3-10-8

and as i said, you can attack my individual posts since none of them by themselves make a fight horrible I EXPLICITLY SAID THAT ALL OF THEM COMBINED DO.

except I only made that point about reading it somewhere ONCE. And as for class 'centric', you complained about features that didn't have anything to do with your class, so how are you able to accurately make statements on it? And where I apparently said the fight IS class centric, was me saying you weren't required to stack, hardly a valid point kid.

And yes you said all of those things together make it a bad fight, but none of the points you are making are ACTUAL points except for a couple people getting motion sick and the platform being small. The reason I said it looks like you are just copy/pasting what others complain about is because of how generic all of your reasoning is, you aren't giving any reasons as to why you hate the fight other than literally what other people say. Do you hate it because the casters in your raid had to move? Do you hate it because your resto shaman got motion sickness? Do you hate it because only the healers had something to do? Oh sorry, your 2 personal opinions about it looking bad and the platform being small, that is your reason to hate the fight and that's fine, have your opinion, just don't spout out tradechat complaints and call it valid.

Your reasoning would be similar to me saying Flame Leviathan was the WORST encounter ever, because motorcycles are dangerous and I don't like them.

[shaunika123]

Heroic Ascendant Council comes to mind... an encounter so mind-bogglingly stupidly tuned nearly every guild just skipped it. (Or killed it once for the sake of progression then said fuck it and never bothered to do it again.) I don't know anybody who remembers that encounter fondly and it was still a bitch to do even when you went in with a raid full of fully Heroic DS geared people.

well having raided 10man i never really found AC so bad, i know it was terrible on 25, but meh at least you didnt have to deal with malorak 10man having 25man HP adds :P.

but yeah, it wasnt a great fight, but at least you had to fight actual bosses and not 25 billion oozes.

except I only made that point about reading it somewhere ONCE. And as for class 'centric', you complained about features that didn't have anything to do with your class, so how are you able to accurately make statements on it? And where I apparently said the fight IS class centric, was me saying you weren't required to stack, hardly a valid point kid. And yes you said all of those things together make it a bad fight, but none of the points you are making are ACTUAL points except for a couple people getting motion sick and the platform being small.

well just because you dont agree with them doesnt make them invalid, anyway let's agree to disagree and move on, neither of us will ever convince the other, so im officially done with this conversation

[Argarock]

I absolutely despised both spine and Madness, way to fuck up what should have been an amazing fight...

probably skipping the first raid tier if one of the first bosses is a spine copy "/

[shaunika123]

I absolutely despised both spine and Madness, way to fuck up what should have been an amazing fight...

probably skipping the first raid tier if one of the first bosses is a spine copy "/

dont skip it just cause one boss the rest of the bosses seem pretty fun, plus it's way better than spine on multiple accounts, honestly as others have pointed out it's more similar to yogg saron p2, i just have vietnam flashbacks whenever something's similar to spine so that's what popped into my head right away.

[tristannarutofan]

from my perspective people hate spin because that WHILE you are doing that complex thing of not dying, standing in bad but not to much, killing things but not enough.

You have to consider where your entire raid is and avoid a instant whipe mechanic.

Either one of those things could have been ok but together i think it was to much

[shaunika123]

And ignoring what I said entirely.
Those with a negative view yell and insist on sharing the volume of their arguments as "proof" instead of giving a good argument in the first place.
You just proved exactly what I said, relying on the quantity of supporting voices instead of actually giving any reasoning.

i did give reasoning though, plus if as you said every negative opinion gets yelled, the one subject to most negative opinions will still come out on top, and at point it's no longer a vocal minority.

im sure there are a lot of people who love spine of deathwing, but by any concievable measure the majority doesnt

[ComputerNerd]

i did give reasoning though, plus if as you said every negative opinion gets yelled, the one subject to most negative opinions will still come out on top, and at point it's no longer a vocal minority.

im sure there are a lot of people who love spine of deathwing, but by any concievable measure the majority doesnt

As I said, it has been made very clear repeatedly that those happy with something are less likely to go about yelling.
There is no "measure" of the popularity proven by the number yelling about how bad it is.
Look at this forum for clear proof of that.
Look at the polls demanding removal of a given feature, how threads demanding removal of LFR etc keep coming up but every single poll shows that despite the hugely skewed visibility of hatred, it isn't representing in any way how people feel.

A less popular encounter, or one that is popular to complain about does not in any way prove or disprove that it is still a minority opinion.
A larger portion can still be a minority when there is not equal visibility of the counter opinions to judge that on.

[Argarock]

dont skip it just cause one boss the rest of the bosses seem pretty fun, plus it's way better than spine on multiple accounts, honestly as others have pointed out it's more similar to yogg saron p2, i just have vietnam flashbacks whenever something's similar to spine so that's what popped into my head right away.

Oh, that's good then, rather enjoyed Yoggy

Ok, I get that people get into arguements over wether spine was a good fight or not.

but I do not understand how people can just disregard other peoples opinion on the matter..


Why I disliked Spine:

I felt a total disconnect from Deathwing during the fight. We werent fighting deathwing, we were fighting Tentacles and slimes.. It wasnt a boss fight, it was a add gauntlet with loot at the end.

The pacing of the fight felt really off, as a dps. kill add , wait , kill tentacle , wait , kill add , wait , kill elemental , run away , KILL TENDON , wait
the barrel roll, althou a cool mechanic at start, turned into a lame gimmick that got old fairly quickly

- - - Updated - - -

A less popular encounter, or one that is popular to complain about does not in any way prove or disprove that it is still a minority opinion.
A larger portion can still be a minority when there is not equal visibility of the counter opinions to judge that on.

There's a difference between
"the minority that dislikes Spine is very vocal"

and

"the minority that makes 'worst encounters in Wow'-lists Usually have Spine near the top"

[shaunika123]

As I said, it has been made very clear repeatedly that those happy with something are less likely to go about yelling.
There is no "measure" of the popularity proven by the number yelling about how bad it is.
Look at this forum for clear proof of that.
Look at the polls demanding removal of a given feature, how threads demanding removal of LFR etc keep coming up but every single poll shows that despite the hugely skewed visibility of hatred, it isn't representing in any way how people feel.

A less popular encounter, or one that is popular to complain about does not in any way prove or disprove that it is still a minority opinion.
A larger portion can still be a minority when there is not equal visibility of the counter opinions to judge that on.

my point is, that unhappy people will yell about the thing they're unhappy about, but if the majority of unhappy people are unhappy about the same thing, then it is still a decent representation. yes people will not post videos about how spine is the best boss ever, but they also wont post about how karazhan is the worst instance ever, because it clearly isnt. negative outcry is still a relevant measure if they all cry about the same thing.

it's how statistics work, if the majority of a sample is behaving a certain way than most likely the majority of the population behaves similarly unless the sample is shittily selected (IE only choose people who hate spine, but then again, that would not be that hard to do since most people dont like it) i remember having an online poll about worst instance and worst bossfight right here on MMO a year or two back, and DS and spine were both vastly outnumbering any other answer.

i dare you to name 10 bosses that are objectively worse than spine without making me laugh.

[Relapses]

i dare you to name 10 bosses that are objectively worse than spine without making me laugh.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but it's extremely hyperbolic to ask somebody to objectively describe something which is entirely subjective. It'd be like a sushi chef demanding you describe to him 10 meals from McDonald's which are objectively worse (or better) than a California roll.

[RedGamer030]

How dare Blizzard make another boss fight with similar mechanics! Do they not know that is lazy and cheap?!? I am so angry that I will go make forum threads discussing this atrocity and the depravity of Blizzard as a company!!! /s

[purebalance]

Motion sickness is part of the challenge!

I mean I was looking at the damn "I get headaches from XXXXX" thread in the beta forums and it's like.... maybe this game isn't for you then. Instead they humor them and alter stuff for them.