BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Wildtree]

They do stick to their name, Independence Party, independent from consequences.

Independent from intellectual evolution.

[Deleted]

Wasn't the whole Brexit debate basically between rival Conservative camps though? Why would Labour be seeing any fallout from this?

Because Labour has been pro EU (the political party definately, the actual voters themselves, maybe not), and the areas that voted nearly overwhelmingly to leave are the former Labour heartlands in the North of England.

Labour is now realising that voting in an academic who doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting the working class vote isn't the sort of person who should lead the traditionally working class party.

Something which anyone with half a brain could have worked out before Corbyn was even elected as leader, but then is politicians we are talking about, and half a brain is a bit overqualified for most of them.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Pretty much seems like it.

It looks the only political figures who were actually happy to have won were UKIP, because they don't have to deal with the aftermath, they've just won, there party has accomplished what it set out to do and thats it.

You could say they won and then some to be honest. They got a major national vote agreeing with them and even managed to (partially) dismantle their enemies, the two big established parties.

[Deleted]

I dunno, it seems like there won't be anybody left from the David/Ed era by tomorrow morning.

Which could arguably be seen as a good thing. The whole shifting of the Labour party away from working class people towards the more liberal vote that was disenfranchised by the Liberal Democrats betrayal started with the Milibands.

It's just that David had more charisma than his brother. Which isn't difficult, the empty can of red bull sitting on my desk rn has more charisma than Ed Miliband.

[Deleted]

You could say they won and then some to be honest. They got a major national vote agreeing with them and even managed to (partially) dismantle their enemies, the two big established parties.

Says a lot about the politicial parties there, aka not being representative anymore then.

[Deleted]

Honestly, if Corbyn had shown as much backbone during the referendum as he is against this leadership challenge, we might have seen a different result.

Typical self serving politician.

[Lorianus]

Says a lot about the politicial parties there, aka not being representative anymore then.

One could also argue that propaganda buzzwords like: Immigration!, Jobs!, Establishement!, Leading Elites! and so on just work as much in our time like they did in the 1930s in europe.

I know the political climate is not the same as then but i see worrying signs of the same bullshit as then with the rise of right wing partys all over europe.

[Ulmita]

I think UK will try to keep its access to the single market of EU.

I hope Germany WRECKthat dream of theirs.

[Macaquerie]

Just as a side note, does anyone find it amusing that a guy calling himself Sargon of Akkad is trying to lecture everyone on the evils of Middle Eastern immigration?

[Deleted]

One could also argue that propaganda buzzwords like: Immigration!, Jobs!, Establishement!, Leading Elites! and so on just work as much in our time like they did in the 1930s in europe.

I know the political climate is not the same as then but i see worrying signs of the same bullshit as then with the rise of right wing partys all over europe.

Not really, they aren't buzzword but real life issues that majority of politicians ignore. It's their own fault they didn't adapted and cater to the electorate.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Which could arguably be seen as a good thing. The whole shifting of the Labour party away from working class people towards the more liberal vote that was disenfranchised by the Liberal Democrats betrayal started with the Milibands.

It's just that David had more charisma than his brother. Which isn't difficult, the empty can of red bull sitting on my desk rn has more charisma than Ed Miliband.

What? Are you seriously suggesting that the move to the right started with the Millibands? If anything that was a tiny step back to the left, away from the pale blue that Blair and people like that poisonous snake Mandelson had moved the party towards.

[Deleted]

I think UK will try to keep its access to the single market of EU.

I hope Germany WRECKthat dream of theirs.

Germany is the biggest importer/exporter to the UK after the US.

Why would they want to lose so much money?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Another two Labour resignations in the last 20 minutes:

Shadow Transport Secretary Lilian Greenwood
Shadow Environment Secretary Kerry McCarthy

Nope, never heard of them either

[Deleted]

What? Are you seriously suggesting that the move to the right started with the Millibands? If anything that was a tiny step back to the left, away from the pale blue that Blair and people like that poisonous snake Mandelson had moved the party towards.

No, i'm suggesting that the move to start targetting the people who were disenfranchised from a Liberal Democrat party that jumped into bed the idealogical opponents of the Liberal Democrats started with the Milibands.

It was a shift away from the centre towards the Left, that is true, but it was a change in the message of the Labour party that brought about the likes of Corbyn.

And this is why Corbyn is now facing a leadership challenge, because the Labour party is having to own up to the fact thats its already waning political power will continue to wane unless it taps back into the working class vote again, and no working class voter is going to vote for someone like Corbyn.

[Ulmita]

Germany is the biggest importer/exporter to the UK after the US.

Why would they want to lose so much money?

Because if they allow you to keep the benefits of EU w/t being in EU, they will allow other countries to mimic you which in term will wreck the EU.

[Deleted]

Another two Labour resignations in the last 20 minutes:

Shadow Transport Secretary Lilian Greenwood
Shadow Environment Secretary Kerry McCarthy

Nope, never heard of them either

In fairness, most people struggle to name anyone from the opposition party except the leader. Most people can barely name more than 5 people in the current cabinet come to think of it.

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Because if they allow you to keep the benefits of EU w/t being in EU, they will allow other countries to mimic you which in term will wreck the EU.

We retain trade. We lose our political say.

If the only "benefit" of the European Union is its free trade, then the European Union has already failed and deserves to die and be replaced by some form of European Free Trade area.

[Ulmita]

We retain trade. We lose our political say.

If the only "benefit" of the European Union is its free trade, then the European Union has already failed and deserves to die and be replaced by some form of European Free Trade area.

No, you retain ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

[Deleted]

No, you don't retain ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING.

Make sure you write to your MEP to tell them your views then.

Telling me means nothing.

[Ulmita]

Make sure you write to your MEP to tell them your views then.

Telling me means nothing.

They wont allow you to retain anything as that will trigger a mass "leave" EU effect.

Retaining trade and dropping the political aspect of EU, is the dream of everyone.

Your products, once you leave will be subject of import taxes, making the less competitive.

[Deleted]

We retain trade. We lose our political say.

If the only "benefit" of the European Union is its free trade, then the European Union has already failed and deserves to die and be replaced by some form of European Free Trade area.

hahaha, you're joking right ?
You'll retain NOTHING, thats the whole point of this, you'll be punished to oblivion lol..
At best...you'll have to keep paying eu hundreds of millions per year to even access the market, at way worse terms, then like you previously had. xD