BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

To reduce Brussels influence on migration policy.

Except every Team Leave leader has said that immigration will not change post-brexit.

[NomadKing]

To reduce Brussels influence on migration policy.

Any EU deal will have movement of people or worse full Shengan integration. It reduces nothing.

[Deleted]

Those investors are considering moving to other economies because of uncertainty.

I think you get it in the same way as I but because others might not.... You mean from both the EU and the UK right? Because much of these entities can't be split overnight and much of the investment is long term, physical fixed capital and not at all liquid.

[Slant]

Long time lurker here.

As a person that voted leave reading this thread since the result came out is too beautiful, I mean the hysteria shown by the EU know it alls is ridiculous.

Anyone thinking the UK is going to get a deal that is not broadly similar to what we already have needs their heads testing.

Ah, another example of "Haha, we tricked the EU! We're so smart!" faction that thinks this is all really just a bloody smart rouse by the UK to basically get anything they want and cut anything they don't want... Helden? This guy is being a dick about it.

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For me personally it was to get out of what the EU was trying to become. Not really what was being signed up to in 1975 and now you see the effects of this age group being duped at the time and having a 40 year wait to have their voices heard again

As if you had any clue what the EU was, is or was going to become. Don't kid yourself, it's not what you think it is.

[Deleted]

You as a nation wanted out. Again, I do not care about you personally. You can repeat that it wasn't you in every single post, that doesn't change the fact that as a part of the nation, you are out. Whether you like it or not really doesn't matter much at this point. And I'm really not interested in it, either. I'm talking about the consequences for you as a nation.

And you still do not get to say that the EU "is being dicks about it" or "punish the UK". That's just factually wrong and still ignoring the whole issue at hand. That the UK (and you in particular) are still not really aware of the legal repercussions this has. I mean, this is no shock to me, seeing as how horribly misrepresented your campaigns were.

I'm not actually arguing against much that you say, except any negative comment like "punishment" or "being a dick about it". Once you say that, you're ignoring that if anyone's being dicks is the UK's part of the population that wanted out, most surely at least the UKIP and the Leave campaign. Blame them, talk to them about being dicks, because they got you into this mess. Congratulations, your nation has been duped into a shithole. The EU, however, is not anymore the place where you can whinge about it.

I'm not saying the EU is being a dick.

I am saying you, Slant, are being a dick.

The EU hasn't stated that it wants to punish us at all.

[Deleted]

To reduce Brussels influence on migration policy.

One of the consequences is now you don't have the power to decide on that. The EFTA/EEA implies the Schengen agreement.

[Cosmic Janitor]

And you don't understand how much this one day is to the benefit of the UK, dragging it out even further will exactly help in attracting new non-EU companies.

Yes, the great amount of confidence that usually comes with a headless inept government is certainly to attract a lot of money from all over the world. Totally not a giant joke to the rest of the world.

[dribbles]

It's been assessed that Germany is having to up its EU annual contributions by 3bn euro a year to recover the lost UK money, where is this coming from? and what about the rest? Turkey?

[Slant]

By the looks of things it looks like we may be staying in the EU (Thank fuck) due to Boris not having the balls to go ahead with article 50 and Scotland wanting to Veto the referendum, Boris has come out this morning talking about it being a type of exercise to show they were listening to the people.

Honestly their stunt cost the global market too much and an example does need to be set for them, I'm just not sure what it is yet.

I'm not a religious person, but I would actually sacrifice the next meat ball I cook to any god interested if that happened. I honestly don't believe it will, though. It would be thoroughly undemocratic to first ask for a vote of the population and then proceed to ignore the clear majority of it. Evil people might even argue doing that would be against the fundamental principles of the EU, that require any member state to be based on democratic principles.

Heck, I'd close both eyes to that, but ignoring this referendum just rubs me all kinds of wrong ways. You'd have to do some actually really creative politicking to not make this taste like a rotten sour grape.

[PC2]

Except every Team Leave leader has said that immigration will not change post-brexit.

But if migration does reach a critical point, now the UK will have more sovereign control to deal with the issue.

[Deleted]

I think you get it in the same way as I but because others might not.... You mean from both the EU and the UK right? Because much of these entities can't be split overnight and much of the investment is long term, physical fixed capital and not at all liquid.

That's why companies are planning moving out from Britain to the rest of Europe.

[Rockyreg]

So you voted out to end up in the same position as we are now but with less political power in the EU?

What political power? All we did was piss other countries off that wanted different things from us. You should all be happy not vindictive and wanting the uk to suffer.

Thank fuck you lot on here won't be part of the negotiations, unless the EU is going to employ a bunch of hysterical schoolgirls to lead the negotiations

[Skroe]

Reading today's news, it seems highly unlikely Brexit will actually happen. It's officially stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On one side you have Scotland, which probably does have to approve Brexit for it to be legal within the UK from what I'm reading. And the Scottish Parliament will never go for that, especially if a second independence referendum is not promised, as the Brexiters are loath to allow.

On the other side David Cameron handed his successor a poison pill. Markets will stabilize in coming days, but the instant it seems like Article 50 will be activated, whether it be in one month, three months or one year, markets will again slide and throw the UK into a recession. A great way for a successor to start off their tenure.

And on top of that the leading forces of Brexit seem to be in... no actual rush.

In the end I think this will have all be a ridiculous and unnecessary show brought about by one of the most worthless, reckless and hopeless politicians of our time (search about all the nice things I've said about David fucking Cameron prior to this... the guy's a clown and it's good this has demolished his crap career). But as many analysts have argued, the longer the time goes by without Article 50 being activated, the less likely Brexit becomes real. I think it will go so long, and be compounded by Scotland, by a general election, by a Tory party that won't want the responsibility of pressing the big red Article 50 button, that it'll never happen.

Really this is just another phase of political centrism's inability to fucking stand up and fight in the Western World. Donald Trump, the Tea Party and far right forces rise in the US and rather than being marginalized, they take over the Republican Party. Brexit forces, there for decades in the UK, get noisy, and rather than being smashed to bits, they are given a referendum they never should have had. And on the other side somehow Jeremy Fucking Corbyn, another extremist, becomes Labour leader (a guy who, it is coming out, purposely sabotaged the Remain campaign). Hopefully France learns this lesson and deals with the National Front, to illustrate that there is at least one western Democracy where the center right and center left haven't completely lost their ability to fight and ridicule extremists.

[Slant]

I'm not saying the EU is being a dick.

I am saying you, Slant, are being a dick.

The EU hasn't stated that it wants to punish us at all.

Neither did I, if you look back. So, you're really just mad and want to punch someone in the face, is that it?

[Deleted]

What political power? All we did was piss other countries off that wanted different things from us. You should all be happy not vindictive and wanting the uk to suffer.

Thank fuck you lot on here won't be part of the negotiations, unless the EU is going to employ a bunch of hysterical schoolgirls to lead the negotiations

Who are the British negotiators? Oh, right, there are none.

[Doylez]

Ah, another example of "Haha, we tricked the EU! We're so smart!" faction that thinks this is all really just a bloody smart rouse by the UK to basically get anything they want and cut anything they don't want... Helden? This guy is being a dick about it.

Yeah, some people seem to think that EU is going to be like "Well, you told us to go fuck ourselves, but we still love you, so here, have all of our stuff."
It's pretty funny actually.

[Slant]

It's been assessed that Germany is having to up its EU annual contributions by 3bn euro a year to recover the lost UK money, where is this coming from? and what about the rest? Turkey?

We can handle that. We're feeding Greece, a million refugees and are paying Turkey off to keep the rest. What's another 3 billion to us. I mean, heck, we won't be able to carry Europe like this much longer if people just keep on piling their shit on our backs, but for the time being, we can do it.

You better not be anywhere near Europe when we can't, though. Perhaps someone else wants to help?

[Skroe]

I'm not a religious person, but I would actually sacrifice the next meat ball I cook to any god interested if that happened. I honestly don't believe it will, though. It would be thoroughly undemocratic to first ask for a vote of the population and then proceed to ignore the clear majority of it. Evil people might even argue doing that would be against the fundamental principles of the EU, that require any member state to be based on democratic principles.

Heck, I'd close both eyes to that, but ignoring this referendum just rubs me all kinds of wrong ways. You'd have to do some actually really creative politicking to not make this taste like a rotten sour grape.

You're right. It would be throughly undemocratic.

But you know what? I think the UK could live with it. I think any country could.

Principles aren't so important as to railroad a nation, or a union, to suicide. Especially since from the outset, that referendum was non-binding (in contrast the one in 2011 was).

Country's occasionally have to be hypocrites in order to do the right thing, even if it isn't the fair or popular thing. It's part of the deal.

[Jessicka]

But if migration does reach a critical point, now the UK will have more sovereign control to deal with the issue.

We always had sovereign control. We just never exercised it because we knew it would be damaging to the economy. The problem was not managing the issues perceived to be cause by immigration - school places, NHS lists, unemployment, lack of investment - and instead using immigration as a scapegoat and excuse for not doing anything. I say perceived, because immigrants are filling skilled NHS employment holes, and overall EU immigration is putting more than enough extra money into the economy to actually pay for it.

[PC2]

Reading today's news, it seems highly unlikely Brexit will actually happen. It's officially stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On one side you have Scotland, which probably does have to approve Brexit for it to be legal within the UK from what I'm reading. And the Scottish Parliament will never go for that, especially if a second independence referendum is not promised, as the Brexiters are loath to allow.

On the other side David Cameron handed his successor a poison pill. Markets will stabilize in coming days, but the instant it seems like Article 50 will be activated, whether it be in one month, three months or one year, markets will again slide and throw the UK into a recession. A great way for a successor to start off their tenure.

And on top of that the leading forces of Brexit seem to be in... no actual rush.

In the end I think this will have all be a ridiculous and unnecessary show brought about by one of the most worthless, reckless and hopeless politicians of our time (search about all the nice things I've said about David fucking Cameron prior to this... the guy's a clown and it's good this has demolished his crap career). But as many analysts have argued, the longer the time goes by without Article 50 being activated, the less likely Brexit becomes real. I think it will go so long, and be compounded by Scotland, by a general election, by a Tory party that won't want the responsibility of pressing the big red Article 50 button, that it'll never happen.

Really this is just another phase of political centrism's inability to fucking stand up and fight in the Western World. Donald Trump, the Tea Party and far right forces rise in the US and rather than being marginalized, they take over the Republican Party. Brexit forces, there for decades in the UK, get noisy, and rather than being smashed to bits, they are given a referendum they never should have had. And on the other side somehow Jeremy Fucking Corbyn, another extremist, becomes Labour leader (a guy who, it is coming out, purposely sabotaged the Remain campaign). Hopefully France learns this lesson and deals with the National Front, to illustrate that there is at least one western Democracy where the center right and center left haven't completely lost their ability to fight and ridicule extremists.

"If we believe in remain enough, maybe it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy"

Sorry no, Democracy will win.