BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Cyberowl]

Another interesting tweet https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/st...18270365446144

See we are not the retaliating assholes everyone accuses us to be

So Cameron may have gone from Judas to Jesus? Sacrificing himself and stuff?

[klogaroth]

Britain was a Trojan horse for American corporations and politics into Europe. We should celebrate that they left.

We were our own trojan thank you very much. We weren't trojaning for anyone else.

[Cybran]

Another interesting tweet https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/st...18270365446144

If it was the other way around, Britain would be kicking any of the 27 states while they are on the ground. They don't deserve this leeway.

[Slant]

Britain was a Trojan horse for American corporations and politics into Europe. We should celebrate that they left.

So now it's we all of a sudden? No man, fuck off. You hate Germany, you don't get to celebrate this as a win.

[Cybran]

So now it's we all of a sudden? No man, fuck off. You hate Germany, you don't get to celebrate this as a win.

Despite what you think, Europe isn't just Germany.

[Mayhem]

Another interesting tweet https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/st...18270365446144

See we are not the retaliating assholes everyone accuses us to be

Quite the opposite it seems. So the leavers went from being oppressed to telling lies and trying to hold the EU hostage by draging this out longer than needed within 3 days.

[Deleted]

Because... oh YEAH GERMANY SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyway... because the underlying parameters that led to this perceived "unjust" EU are still there. Germany is and will be the strongest economy, have the biggest population and so on, Greece will in all likelihood still be a small country with a bad economy. These things lead to an EU that tries to accomodate everyone without being unfair. But nationalistic movements will always point to Germany trying to be the Fourth Reich and Greece trying to leech off everyone else. I know that's too simplistic and nationalistic bullshit, but other people don't. And it's easy to make up polemic arguments around this discrepancy.

And to make this clear: Free travel and the Euro are two of THE BIGGEST plusses the EU has. They ARE the good stuff. I can go to England at a moment's notice, just because I want to. I can go to Spain, too. Without changing money. I just take the money I got from my bank, spent it in Spain and take the money I get as change back home to pay my morning coffee with. THAT is a plus! That is what we want.

I am speechless when i read things like this. Germans have the feeling their government is weak and powerless. Merkel is pretty unpopular right now. And one thing for sure: many have the same feeling like some of you have: everyone else just wants our best (our money of course).

Really those fantasies are based on some crazy people living in a world of WW2. This couldn't be further away from the truth.

[Slant]

I am speechless when i read things like this. Germans have the feeling their government is weak and powerless. Merkel is pretty unpopular right now. And one thing for sure: many have the same feeling like some of you have: everyone else just wants our best (our money of course).

Really those fantasies are based on some crazy people living in a world of WW2. This couldn't be further away from the truth.

I have no idea who you're responding to, but it can't be my post. That response makes no sense at all. No idea how you read all of that gibberish into what I said.

[klogaroth]

So Cameron may have gone from Judas to Jesus? Sacrificing himself and stuff?

Not quite.

He's sacrificed the next leader of the Conservatives.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-article-50-eu

Basically he knows that if we leave the EU the next 2 years are going to be very hard work and during that time the uncertainty is going to lead to a volatile economy. Whoever is in charge during this time will have to negotiate the terms of leaving, and deal with the fallout at home. Due to the way that diplomacy actually works people who wanted to leave the EU will not be anywhere near 100% happy with the terms offered. People who wanted to stay may well still not be up for re-electing the person that took us out of the EU.

Whichever person triggers article 50 will be unelectable for the rest of their career.

Cameron knows it, Gove knows it, Johnson knows it. Everyone with a shot at prime minister knows it.

Everyone in the UK is looking at months of uncertainty, followed by 2 years of uncertainty as we go through what could end up being the most complicated political negotiations so far in history.

[Deleted]

Wait so there´s a real chance for another independence referendum from scotland?

I'm shocked that people are still surprised by this. How is this possible? It was pretty clear Friday morning and the Scottish are pretty focussed to make it fast. They even want to talk to EU pretty fast how they could stay a member of EU without ever leaving. They don't want to apply for a new membership.

They seem to be really furious right now. I thought they'd take more time to take actions. Much more time.

[Deleted]

where did you find ''If they want cooperation to continue, Switzerland will have to fully join the EU and recognise the supremacy of Brussels and the European courts.''

The thing with the swiss-EU relation is that EU would never wanted to concede on free movement befor brexit as it would show EU is ready to bend. I'm not saying that they will bend but swiss will probably find a way to keep the deal in. the can make a vote on the larger question of deal with the EU that would overight the old one in some way, Didier Burkhalter suggested that solution so it might still happen.

i don't think they will ever join EU, not right now for sure, also i'm almost sure they will find a way to keep there trade deal they have spent 25 year to build.

Switzerland will never join EU, i am absolutely sure. But there are no negotiations. They had 3 years from feb 2014 to feb 2017. Now it's just about half a year left and there are no negotations. They just told Switzerland that if they want free movement removed, they'd be thrown out of EEA. They are not even talking anymore.

Of course you can hope that the EU will move. But if they don't it is pretty clear that the UK will get about the same treatment. They don't seem to move towards Switzerland and they didn't really move towards Greece.

I honestly see one offer: EEA membership with all its disadvantages and advantages. No UK bonus. UK either take it or leave it. And i bet they'd take it in the end. Becasue London needs it.

- - - Updated - - -

I have no idea who you're responding to, but it can't be my post. That response makes no sense at all. No idea how you read all of that gibberish into what I said.

I've heard some 4rd Reich talk too. Brexiteers comparing the EU with Hitler. I'm speechless that stuff like this really works. PErhaps just for minorities, but it works.

[dribbles]

About as servicable as your brain, apparently.

Oh dear hit a nerve did I? Guess I am off to see the good Dr Mengele.

As you were listing all the great things Germany has done for the EU, so was I, or perhaps you are one of those denialists as you didn't answer the question over the ovens. And then you have the cheek to moan when people raise the question of the Fourth Reich.

[Deleted]

Not quite.

He's sacrificed the next leader of the Conservatives.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-article-50-eu

Basically he knows that if we leave the EU the next 2 years are going to be very hard work and during that time the uncertainty is going to lead to a volatile economy. Whoever is in charge during this time will have to negotiate the terms of leaving, and deal with the fallout at home. Due to the way that diplomacy actually works people who wanted to leave the EU will not be anywhere near 100% happy with the terms offered. People who wanted to stay may well still not be up for re-electing the person that took us out of the EU.

Whichever person triggers article 50 will be unelectable for the rest of their career.

Cameron knows it, Gove knows it, Johnson knows it. Everyone with a shot at prime minister knows it.

Everyone in the UK is looking at months of uncertainty, followed by 2 years of uncertainty as we go through what could end up being the most complicated political negotiations so far in history.

Maybe they will try to find a way out of Brexit. As i said already Friday: i am pretty sure there could be new elections soon and they might be seen as a referendum 2.0 (the winners might tell you that they don't feel bound to the old referendum).

If Johnson doesn't step forward, he's dead weight anyways. It's weird how calm he is in times people expected him to take actions. Now he wants time, there should be no haste and so on. They might have noone left...

When i read the article, one thing seems clear to me: the EU won't talk about new treaties before someone triggers Article 50. So there's no sense to delay it but - nobody wants to trigger it for real. The longer they wait, the more probable is it will never be triggered.

My guess: it will be triggered in the coming 6 months or it will never be triggered.

[Reklia]

Scotland wanting another referendum but wants to stay as a EU member. I thought they wanted independence? *confused*

[Deleted]

Scotland wanting another referendum but wants to stay as a EU member. I thought they wanted independence? *confused*

They had an independence referendum in 2014..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotti...ferendum,_2014

[Mayhem]

What if scotland secedes, then the UK isn´t the UK anymore and they don´t have to leave the EU, right? ^^

[Deleted]

You didn't join in 75, you joined in 73 - you sure you remember?
it was always meant to be more than just a fucking free trade treaty.
Which wont happen, because nobody likes you, or follows you - go off into your isolation, we are done with you.

we had a referendum in 75. yes, i remember.
it was never meant to be more than a trade trade treaty & i do believe it is US - the great BRITISH public - that is done with YOU!!

[Slant]

I've heard some 4rd Reich talk too. Brexiteers comparing the EU with Hitler. I'm speechless that stuff like this really works. PErhaps just for minorities, but it works.

Oh, you were saying you heard stuff like that, too. Ok that makes a lot more sense now.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Maybe they will try to find a way out of Brexit. As i said already Friday: i am pretty sure there could be new elections soon and they might be seen as a referendum 2.0 (the winners might tell you that they don't feel bound to the old referendum).

If Johnson doesn't step forward, he's dead weight anyways. It's weird how calm he is in times people expected him to take actions. Now he wants time, there should be no haste and so on. They might have noone left...

Well for now we only have a lame internal tory vote in 3 months. Setting up a proper election would be off at least the same amount of time. I also wouldn't call Johnson calm. The guy is currently losing a lot of sleep, because he is the one that is next in line to take the poisoned chalice. We will see how things are after Tuesday's meeting of the EU leaders and the subsequent meeting on Wednesday without the UK. I doubt we will see anything substantial until then..

[Slant]

Oh dear hit a nerve did I? Guess I am off to see the good Dr Mengele.

As you were listing all the great things Germany has done for the EU, so was I, or perhaps you are one of those denialists as you didn't answer the question over the ovens. And then you have the cheek to moan when people raise the question of the Fourth Reich.

No, you're just being utterly tasteless and apparently it's not even out of ignorance... really, your comments have reached a new low in poor taste.